JDB

[Rumboz]

is he off contract?

 

[Mr Red]

is he off contract?

Yep. This is his last season of his contract .

 

[possm]

JDB is doing a plodder ah mau, step up your game to earn a new deal...one decent performance in a trial and everyone signing his praises....what about the last 3 seasons of total rubbish...

Your right! Let's not lose sight of the fact that late last year many on here were talking about letting JDB go mainly because they believed he wasn't playing to his full potential.

Come contract renewal year and De Belin comes out of the blocks with great vigour. If he plays differently after a contract extension there should be no hesitation in dropping him to the Cutters.

 

[Dragsters]

Well, at least a step up from JDB in a contract year is preferable to a step down from Widdop who is in the same boat!

 

[possm]

Well, at least a step up from JDB in a contract year is preferable to a step down from Widdop who is in the same boat!

I agree! And Widdop will not have the opportunity to show improvement mainly because I believe he will only improve under a new top grade coach of which it seems the Dragons Board have no plans to employ this season.

 

[The Doc]

I agree! And Widdop will not have the opportunity to show improvement mainly because I believe he will only improve under a new top grade coach of which it seems the Dragons Board have no plans to employ this season.

I kinda disagree there possm.
I was a big fan of widdop in his first year with us, however the last 2 and a bit years has shown he struggles to do even the basics right.
Surely we cant blame mary for a 5/8 or half kicking into opposition players legs?
Or for a half not having vision to take a run STRAIGHT FORWARD?
Yes Mary has no idea on how to construct a game plan... but i assure even the dumbest coach wouldnt instruct his halves to run sideways and kick into defenders legs!!
Im no fan of Mary... but Widdop is not a class half or 5/8 so that blame falls squarely on his shoulders and his shoulders alone.
As a half, who wants top $$$, if your instructed to play a certain way, and after 2 years your stocks have dropped because that game plan isnt working, then surely you would either:
1. Pull the coach aside and explain this to him and also explain your preffered style that you believe would work better... OR
2. You just say f#ck this and take control of the game the way you think it needs to done.
JT plays whats in front of him. Because he can. Because he is a true half. He takes control of a game.
Widdop has basically said "ok... what do i know? I will just do as im told".
Thats not what a champion half does in these situations!!!
Mary is a shit coach, but widdop is also a shit half.
F#ck them both and piss both of them off!!!

 

[possm]

I remember reports of Soward trying to convince Price about changes to his game plan. Didn't last long after that.

If I recall correctly, Mary was Pices assistant who was in charge of attacking play. The attack was non-existent in those days as well.

JD was supposed to advise Mary on attacking structures however, JD ended up just coaching the Cutters to a grand final win and a cup final win with brilliant attacking play. For some reason JD moved on.

The is an old boys Club at the Dragons and each protects the group - until of course their own job is on the line. Mary will most certainly go in 2017, not because he is a clueless coach but because Doust's job will be on the line.

 

[Qdf]

I kinda disagree there possm.
I was a big fan of widdop in his first year with us, however the last 2 and a bit years has shown he struggles to do even the basics right.
Surely we cant blame mary for a 5/8 or half kicking into opposition players legs?
Or for a half not having vision to take a run STRAIGHT FORWARD?
Yes Mary has no idea on how to construct a game plan... but i assure even the dumbest coach wouldnt instruct his halves to run sideways and kick into defenders legs!!
Im no fan of Mary... but Widdop is not a class half or 5/8 so that blame falls squarely on his shoulders and his shoulders alone.
As a half, who wants top $$$, if your instructed to play a certain way, and after 2 years your stocks have dropped because that game plan isnt working, then surely you would either:
1. Pull the coach aside and explain this to him and also explain your preffered style that you believe would work better... OR
2. You just say f#ck this and take control of the game the way you think it needs to done.
JT plays whats in front of him. Because he can. Because he is a true half. He takes control of a game.
Widdop has basically said "ok... what do i know? I will just do as im told".
Thats not what a champion half does in these situations!!!
Mary is a shit coach, but widdop is also a shit half.
F#ck them both and piss both of them off!!!

Spot on Doc.

 

[Belta]

Possum bench said; "There is an old boys club at the Dragons and each protects the group..." Agree 100 percent

In interviews with Mary he has spoke of the results of previous seasons being not good enough and alluded to major changes in many aspects of their game plans. I know it's only early, I for one fear it's already shaping up as another lack lustre year with the same players underperforming and another year of excuses. I couldn't help but pick up on his recent quote when asked about injuries to Mathews and Hutch; Mary sAid something like.."it's pretty tough we've lost two already., we've only got 23 to pick out of our top 25 players..." It sounds to me like he is already formulating excuses....

I hope I'm wrong as imo there is a lot of positives and I'm still predicting we will see some exciting players injected into FG this year

 

[Glenn01]

I remember reports of Soward trying to convince Price about changes to his game plan. Didn't last long after that.

If I recall correctly, Mary was Pices assistant who was in charge of attacking play. The attack was non-existent in those days as well.

JD was supposed to advise Mary on attacking structures however, JD ended up just coaching the Cutters to a grand final win and a cup final win with brilliant attacking play. For some reason JD moved on.

The is an old boys Club at the Dragons and each protects the group - until of course their own job is on the line. Mary will most certainly go in 2017, not because he is a clueless coach but because Doust's job will be on the line.

The non existent attack coincided with the arrival of Gareth Widdop!

 

[SBD82]

The non existent attack coincided with the arrival of Gareth Widdop!

That doesn't seem right. Price took over before Widdop arrived, and we were shocking then too.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Have to give credit where credit is due it is due, really well played today Jack you were our best.
I liked the fact that you actually stopped turning your back to the defence looking for someone to pass to and instead you took the line on and you kept your legs pumping.
Much more effective and dragged some defenders too you making the offload potent.
I hope you keep doing that all year and our halves get on start to trail you but whatever else you do please don't revert back to last years attacking style.

Mate hope Macgregor doesn't read your last sentence...it will be back to the bad ol days

 

[SBD82]

I kinda disagree there possm.
I was a big fan of widdop in his first year with us, however the last 2 and a bit years has shown he struggles to do even the basics right.
Surely we cant blame mary for a 5/8 or half kicking into opposition players legs?
Or for a half not having vision to take a run STRAIGHT FORWARD?
Yes Mary has no idea on how to construct a game plan... but i assure even the dumbest coach wouldnt instruct his halves to run sideways and kick into defenders legs!!
Im no fan of Mary... but Widdop is not a class half or 5/8 so that blame falls squarely on his shoulders and his shoulders alone.
As a half, who wants top $$$, if your instructed to play a certain way, and after 2 years your stocks have dropped because that game plan isnt working, then surely you would either:
1. Pull the coach aside and explain this to him and also explain your preffered style that you believe would work better... OR
2. You just say f#ck this and take control of the game the way you think it needs to done.
JT plays whats in front of him. Because he can. Because he is a true half. He takes control of a game.
Widdop has basically said "ok... what do i know? I will just do as im told".
Thats not what a champion half does in these situations!!!
Mary is a shit coach, but widdop is also a shit half.
F#ck them both and piss both of them off!!!

I agree they can both go, but I think that you are underestimating the shitty impact that Mary's game plans have had on widdops game.

Think of the 2010 left side plays. The reason that hornby, who is not a natural half, was so effective on the left was because he had options. He could hit creagh on an outside in line, cut out creagh to cooper, give it out the back to Boyd, or grubber/chip for Morris. Defences couldn't afford to rush him because it left their line vulnerable to the sweeper.

JT has cooper and coote doing similar work for him. He also has the dummy and go and an inside ball.

Widdop doesn't have options, there are no bodies in motion, and this is purely coaching. There is just no structure in our play, so he moves across field looking for runners and finds nothing. It's not an excuse. He should be screaming at his outside men (again, think hornby) and running straight, but with no runners outside him you might as well give it to a prop, because he is always going to be smashed with the ball.

The last 4 years has done so much damage to his game that I don't think he is worth persevering with, but he had so much natural skill and ability when he came to our club, and our shitty game plans have ruined him.

 

[Carlton]

I agree they can both go, but I think that you are underestimating the shitty impact that Mary's game plans have had on widdops game.

Think of the 2010 left side plays. The reason that hornby, who is not a natural half, was so effective on the left was because he had options. He could hit creagh on an outside in line, cut out creagh to cooper, give it out the back to Boyd, or grubber/chip for Morris. Defences couldn't afford to rush him because it left their line vulnerable to the sweeper.

JT has cooper and coote doing similar work for him. He also has the dummy and go and an inside ball.

Widdop doesn't have options, there are no bodies in motion, and this is purely coaching. There is just no structure in our play, so he moves across field looking for runners and finds nothing. It's not an excuse. He should be screaming at his outside men (again, think hornby) and running straight, but with no runners outside him you might as well give it to a prop, because he is always going to be smashed with the ball.

The last 4 years has done so much damage to his game that I don't think he is worth persevering with, but he had so much natural skill and ability when he came to our club, and our shitty game plans have ruined him.

I don't think its the runners causing Widdop problems I think its Widdop makes it impossible for his runners. Widdop does not get smashed, he runs then realises he is getting near the line so he stops and props and slips over to avoid being hit. We need halves that are willing to take the line on and this will allow our runners to hit the holes.

Frizzell and Thomo play in a rep team and suddenly they manage to find holes and run lines and this is with a halves combination they don't usually play with.

 

[SBD82]

I don't think its the runners causing Widdop problems I think its Widdop makes it impossible for his runners. Widdop does not get smashed, he runs then realises he is getting near the line so he stops and props and slips over to avoid being hit. We need halves that are willing to take the line on and this will allow our runners to hit the holes.

Frizzell and Thomo play in a rep team and suddenly they manage to find holes and run lines and this is with a halves combination they don't usually play with.

I'm not saying they don't know how to run lines, I'm saying that the team as a whole aren't coached to do it cohesively. There's no point Thompson running a good line if he is the only option, as he will just get lined up and smashed.

I agree that Widdop plays sideways, but I think it's from years of having no options. There's no point in a playmaker taking on the line one out all the time, the defence needs to be worried about other options, or they will just smash him all day. Second rowers live for that shit.

I know this sounds like I'm defending Widdop, I'm not. He is now not worth keeping. What I'm saying is that we will be having the same conversation about Ben hunt in two years time unless it's addressed.

 

[Carlton]

I'm not saying they don't know how to run lines, I'm saying that the team as a whole aren't coached to do it cohesively. There's no point Thompson running a good line if he is the only option, as he will just get lined up and smashed.

I agree that Widdop plays sideways, but I think it's from years of having no options. There's no point in a playmaker taking on the line one out all the time, the defence needs to be worried about other options, or they will just smash him all day. Second rowers live for that shit.

I know this sounds like I'm defending Widdop, I'm not. He is now not worth keeping. What I'm saying is that we will be having the same conversation about Ben hunt in two years time unless it's addressed.

One of the prime roles of a half is game management, they need to know where the team needs to be and how best to get there and use the team effectively. Widdop does not do this. He is indecisive and takes poor options which makes it difficult for his team mates. Its not Widdop worrying about passing to runners that are going to be belted its more he cant make up his mind what he wants to do. I think the lack of options is more to do with this indecisiviness as players don't really know what he wants as the playmaker. By putting all the blame on Mary (who should not be coach) Widdop is let off the hook. Remember he is playmaker and captain.

 

[SBD82]

Remember he is playmaker and captain.

Impossible to forget. The last year of watching us play has this seared into my brain forever.

I agree that the playmaker should be barking at the players who are not where he wants them, but he can't coach them on the field, he can only get them to remember what they did at training.

He should be directing the plays that he wants, but we have none. As the key playmaker he should maybe take some responsibility at training to create these plays and have them well drilled, but by all accounts Mary isn't someone who appreciates being undermined.

 

[Crush]

I kinda disagree there possm.
I was a big fan of widdop in his first year with us, however the last 2 and a bit years has shown he struggles to do even the basics right.
Surely we cant blame mary for a 5/8 or half kicking into opposition players legs?
Or for a half not having vision to take a run STRAIGHT FORWARD?
Yes Mary has no idea on how to construct a game plan... but i assure even the dumbest coach wouldnt instruct his halves to run sideways and kick into defenders legs!!
Im no fan of Mary... but Widdop is not a class half or 5/8 so that blame falls squarely on his shoulders and his shoulders alone.
As a half, who wants top $$$, if your instructed to play a certain way, and after 2 years your stocks have dropped because that game plan isnt working, then surely you would either:
1. Pull the coach aside and explain this to him and also explain your preffered style that you believe would work better... OR
2. You just say f#ck this and take control of the game the way you think it needs to done.
JT plays whats in front of him. Because he can. Because he is a true half. He takes control of a game.
Widdop has basically said "ok... what do i know? I will just do as im told".
Thats not what a champion half does in these situations!!!
Mary is a shit coach, but widdop is also a shit half.
F#ck them both and piss both of them off!!!

Nailed it Doc. Exactly how I feel.

 

[BennyV]

Impossible to forget. The last year of watching us play has this seared into my brain forever.

I agree that the playmaker should be barking at the players who are not where he wants them, but he can't coach them on the field, he can only get them to remember what they did at training.

He should be directing the plays that he wants, but we have none. As the key playmaker he should maybe take some responsibility at training to create these plays and have them well drilled, but by all accounts Mary isn't someone who appreciates being undermined.

OMG, SOMEONE ELSE UNDERSTANDS WHAT FOOTY TRAINING IS! Incredible!

Anyone who says that a half should 'just be able to create' or that Widdop (or any half for that matter) should just take control is a moron. The team is coached to run plays at training. They are coached to time runs, run specific lines/angles, follow up in support, etc. It's why our attack is such a shambles, because our coaching staff is a bunch of assclowns and has no idea how to run these plays and practice over and over until it becomes second nature to players. It's why we always look so clunky and run plays 5m away from the defense, our coaches seem to think that simply throwing a second-man ball will solve all problems.

Widdop needs to go, yes. His instincts are gone and any natural skills and vision he seems to have are lost (for now). But FMD, people thinking that just throwing a top line half into our team with the same structures will solve all our shit. It wont. JT is a genius because he can identify opportunities and attack them, and when he moves in 1 direction the other players kick into gear and their muscle memory will put them into the position they need to be. He doesnt magically do shit on his own, very few players do (Shaun Johnson, for example, who generally creates for himself).

Cronk is the best example of this - he has a series of structures and set plays that have been drilled into him through years of running the same plays with the same people in the same way. He reacts to the movements of the defense, calls a play and every person in that team will turn up where they need to be, because they've done it a billion times at training. It's how he, Smith and Slater seem to have a telekinetic means of communication.

Players magically showing up where they need to be and 'playing what's in from of them' just doesnt happen, certainly not on a consistent basis in a team environment. Instincts take you so far, but you need teammates on the same wavelength and that is the domain of the coach. And ours SUCKS.

 

[possm]

One of the prime roles of a half is game management, they need to know where the team needs to be and how best to get there and use the team effectively. Widdop does not do this. He is indecisive and takes poor options which makes it difficult for his team mates. Its not Widdop worrying about passing to runners that are going to be belted its more he cant make up his mind what he wants to do. I think the lack of options is more to do with this indecisiviness as players don't really know what he wants as the playmaker. By putting all the blame on Mary (who should not be coach) Widdop is let off the hook. Remember he is playmaker and captain.

Hunt will be our halfback in 2018 and in my opinion, Widdop will get the flick at the end of the year. So we need to play someone at half this year and Hunt's partner for next year at five-eighth this season.

So start with Mann at 6 and whoever Mary wants at 7. If Mann fails then try the next best - maybe Field and so on.