Keno

[veggiepatch1959]

I'm just wondering how random Keno really is.

I very rarely play it but the other night I watched several games and saw something a tad interesting.

The first 6 to 10 numbers come out in rapid succession then a noticeable pause for the next number. This might happen a few times during any one game.

Being my suspicious self, is the pause there for the purpose of eliminating entries that could potentially win a major prize? It wouldn't be too hard for a microprocessor to perform this task.

I've tried Googling this subject but results seem limited to American casinos who seem to operate as standalone entities rather than Australian statewide operations.

Any thoughts?

 

[Twizzle]

I have a colleague who is retired now but he was involved in developing the original electronic poker machines.

One of the biggest issues he had with Aust Govt (now called Office of Liquor and Gaming) was convincing them that the end result was totally random. He engaged an electronic expert to develop his software. As hard as he tried he could not convince them, until 2 years later.

I would assume that the Keno software is similar.

 

[veggiepatch1959]

I believe poker machines actually generate hundreds of possible combinations per second, 24 hours a day, regardless if they are being played or not. The exact moment you hit the play button, that's the combination of reels you get.

I have several poker machine emulators on my computer of popular Australian poker machines from the past few years. They are used for training purposes for poker machine technicians and behave exactly the same as the real thing.

The size of the program is amazingly small....just a few megabytes per machine.

 

[Dogs Of War]

I believe poker machines actually generate hundreds of possible combinations per second, 24 hours a day, regardless if they are being played or not. The exact moment you hit the play button, that's the combination of reels you get.

Thats exactly how they work. They just need to offer the return regulated by law eg lets say it's 90%, the combinations inside a machine must allow for the possibility of a 90% return to player. It doesn't mean that the machine will pay out 90%. In fact if you have ever seen the audit screens on a pokie you will realise that generally they pay out as cash approx 1-2% of the amount of cash put into them. This is because they need to return 90% of credits not cash to the player.

On the newer machines they have approx 52mil combo's, of which 7mil return something to the player (including returns which are less than what you have bet).

 

[veggiepatch1959]

Here's an excerpt from an interesting article I read a few years ago regarding payout figures for pokies.

"This is a familiar tale, but there’s a catch. As mentioned earlier, it’s common knowledge that poker machines have a return-to-player percentage of anywhere between 85 per cent and 90 per cent, depending on where you live and what kind of establishment you’re playing in. For the sake of the story, let’s assume that Gladys’ poker machine was set to 90 per cent. That means that over a long period of time, the machine will return 90 per cent of money gambled to players, and keep 10 per cent as profit.

But wait, I hear you cry. Gladys didn’t lose 10 per cent; she lost it all! Well, no… not according to poker machine mathematics. The rule is that the poker machine has to return 90 per cent of money gambled… not money inserted. And there’s a huge difference.

Gladys played for five hours. She played 10 games a minute; that’s 3,000 games over five hours. 3,000 times that Gladys pushed that little button. And each time she did, she bet a dollar. Sometimes she lost, and sometimes she won; those winnings allowed her to postpone the next $20 just that little bit longer. But by the end of the day, by poker machine mathematics, Gladys had gambled $3,000 in one dollar increments.

Here’s the sting. According to the poker machine, $3,000 was gambled, and $300 (all of Gladys’ money) was kept. That means that the machine paid out $2,700… which is the 90 per cent return. I’m sure Gladys will be pleased to hear that as she sits in the retirement home, waiting for the next pension day."

Full article here - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-05-27/cummings---poker-machine-maths/2733166

Have you ever seen a professional poker machine player? The reason above is why they don't exist.

 

[Lambretta]

I thought that was patently obvious vp

It amazes me that people fail to grasp simple mathematics and it's why I have never bothered with poker machines

For those that are mathematically challenged you only have to do a quick Vox Pop with other poker machine players. Generally speaking they'd find tying their shoes difficult and should warn the average person to steer well clear. If you can't get any of the poker machine zombies to actually communicate then their general demeanour should be a bit of a give away. In short, these machines are designed to rob the poorest, least educated people in society. Those in that position should be able to recognise the Worlds most obvious con. Amazingly they seem unable to do so.

Poker machines are a taxation on stupidity and a pox on society.

 

[veggiepatch1959]

I have always considered poker machines as the epitome of legal thievery.

As for Keno, it's not far behind. When Keno first surfaced in NSW, being the statistical whiz that I am, worked out the combinations and permutations of all available Keno games at the time.

The closest payout to the true odds is 2 out of 2 numbers, giving a return of $12 per dollar compared to the true odds of 22/1.

The biggest joke is 15 numbers. Get that for a dollar bet and you receive a paltry $250,000, when in reality, the payout would be enough the buy the entire country of Australia. Actually 8.7 E+27 dollars or $8677556868736487617966080000!

 

[redvscotty]

I don't really have anything to add except that I enjoyed reading all of this thread .

 

[veggiepatch1959]

I don't really have anything to add except that I enjoyed reading all of this thread .

I'm pleased!

As with all forms of gambling, there is a substantial element of risk. However, I do not consider horseracing a form of gambling, contrary to the textbook definition.

Lotto, Keno, pokies, scratchies, et al, have a very substantial element of risk due to their supposed randomness. Ever seen a form guide next to a pokie in a club/pub or scratchie selling newsagent? Never.

You can access previous Lotto and Keno draw results but what purpose do they serve? "Oh...numbers so and so haven't come out for a while so they're bound to come out so I'm going those numbers.....". Ha f**king ha!!

In a pure random number universe, Keno numbers 1 through 20 have as much chance as coming out as 4, 13, 16, 19, 20, 21, 24, 27, 30, 38, 39, 43, 48, 59, 60, 67, 71, 74, 75 and 80. Same applies to Lotto.

I'm an avid punter on the horses. I am able to access a plethora of information regarding any runner in any race I wish. Weight carried, barrier draw, sectional times, track condition form, previous runs and so on. Spend a bit of time, devise a personal system that works, test it and fine tune it to your needs.

This is what is known as "informed punting", not some whimsical "nice name or pretty colours" strategy some fools employ. Oh...and don't start on the "that pokie is due to pay soon" mantra....that's my missus' f**king stupid philosophy. Silly bitch!!

Thank you for your audience.

 

[umina panther]

My ex girlfriends parents had a Queen of the Nile pokie and I only got it up to the maximum 10k 3 times and that was always winning 1k or so then picking the suit a few times in a row.

 

[Lambretta]

I only really "punt" on Lotto.

I don't do it because I think it's a good investment, it's obviously not because I have probably spent a few of grand over the past ten years for a couple of hundred return

I do it because it's nice to dream - even if you know as I do that the dream at about fifteen million to one against is about as likely to come true as me getting shot by a random stranger.

I never bet more than what I consider to be a small amount of money - $20 being about as large as it gets about once a fortnight at most. More likely it's that much per month to be honest.

Whenever I have gambled on a sporting event in the past (admittedly not often) the team I want to win loses. If I gamble on something say a horse or a race or anything else I lose. Regardless of the odds involved. Whenever it comes to money being punted in the outcome of an event the only constant is that I will lose. It's why I just don't bother.

 

[veggiepatch1959]

That's where the difference between a recreational punter/gambler (just for fun) and a serious punter comes into play.

Note that I omitted "gambler" with regards to serious?

For the record, I have profited just a tick over $21,000 on average per year since I kept records starting in 1987 by betting on horseracing. There have been some years when I was down $5000+ but them's the breaks.

 

[Lambretta]

I did note the omission

Glad you're making money from it. I know I never could so I'm glad someone is

 

[Pierced Soul]

I do it because it's nice to dream - even if you know as I do that the dream at about fifteen million to one against is about as likely to come true as me getting shot by a random stranger.

i had a teacher who always said that lotto wasnt about getting rich, it was about dreaming. i used to think he was a nut till i got older and realised he was right. actually, he's still a nut regardless


so which one of these gambling things will get me rich? all very interesting but i'm no closer to figuring out the easy money (legally)

 

[Packy]

I'm just wondering how random Keno really is.

I very rarely play it but the other night I watched several games and saw something a tad interesting.

The first 6 to 10 numbers come out in rapid succession then a noticeable pause for the next number. This might happen a few times during any one game.

Being my suspicious self, is the pause there for the purpose of eliminating entries that could potentially win a major prize? It wouldn't be too hard for a microprocessor to perform this task.

I've tried Googling this subject but results seem limited to American casinos who seem to operate as standalone entities rather than Australian statewide operations.

Any thoughts?

With modern technology a delay wouldn't be required.

 

[redvscotty]

I've always been interested in horse racing and gambling but have no idea what I'm doing. So I don't do it.

Won my Christmas spending last year from the pokies though, ha!

 

[Lambretta]

so which one of these gambling things will get me rich? all very interesting but i'm no closer to figuring out the easy money (legally)

The stock market or property speculation?

The fact is, betting on things such as horses or the lottery is hardly likely to make you rich

The horses take a lot of knowledge and hard work. It can take years to work out how things truly work and even then you're at the mercy of people getting the best out of the horse on the day. They may have reasons to not do so well and all your research gpes to shit

As for the lottery, odds of fourteen million to one against (on the one with the best odds) getting rich is about as likely as striking oil while digging a fishpond. But it's just a bit of fun

 

[umina panther]

Tennis multi's at the slams is were it's at.

 

[Pierced Soul]

The stock market or property speculation?

my goal like most people's is to get rich with very little effort :lol:
stock markets and property require more effort than going to the newsagent :lol:

for years i'd keep saying "i need to buy shares in JB HIFI" but enevr got round to it. i think their shares keep turning a profit. if i had actually gotten off my arse and done it 5 years ago i'd be ahead...

 

[veggiepatch1959]

I know a couple of people that play the stock market, and from my observation, they put in a huge amount of work for very little (if any) gain. Like watching grass grow in the middle of winter.

At the other end of the spectrum, I've got an old mate who plays pokies like there's no tomorrow - top dollar or nothing. Asked him why he doesn't bet on racehorses and the reply was "I like it quick...not hanging around for 10 minutes to collect a couple of hundred dollars..."