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Knights Season ticket objections-Thanks to Ross Cadell & Ken Conway for responding

Innconu

Juniors
Messages
116
On receiving the season ticket renewal notice from the Knights I was not happy with what I perceive to be a large price increase. My father and I as the ticket holders discussed this and agree it is unreasonable

So I sent the following letter to the Knights on a bit of a rant (I will post it in a reply straight after this so that if you do not want to read my long winded dribble you don't need to).

I am waiting for a reply but I would like the opinion of others to see if you all think I am being unreasonable

Last years ticket - $362 full price
Member discounted price - $312 + $35

This years ticker - $402 with a membership

Increase non member - 10%
Member increase - 15% (round up)
 

Innconu

Juniors
Messages
116
The mail to the Knights (miscalculation in percentage as I added $20 to this year for some reason)


Dear Knights Marketing and Pricing Staff



I have been a loyal and dedicated Newcastle Knights supporter since the inception of the club in 1988 and a season ticket holder for over 12 years now and possibly over 15 years. My father and I have always happily purchased our season tickets with no complaint about price or what the purchase of the tickets included. During the last 10 years we even upgraded the seats we had on the Eastern Concourse over to the Western Lower deck which at the time was a large price jump. Over the last 12 years we have seen the number of NRL games that the tickets entitled the holder to view diminish by as many as 3 games a year with changes made by the NRL and we do understand that the Knights have had no say in this issue, however the price of the tickets did not decrease with this loss of games. Through all of these changes every year when the renewal letter comes out in August / September the only discussion we have had was which one of us was going down to the ground to buy the tickets.



This year however is a different story and I am sad to say a much worse story then in previous years. This year the renewal letter came out and the price has been increased some 14% – 15 % on last years purchase price excluding the discount for being a member of the club which I have been for five years. Now this increase is obviously much higher then the increase you would expect to see due to a CPI increase or even a possible increase that may be expected due to an increase in some running costs. When you take last years $50 discount for a season ticket and the cost of a membership at $35 then the increase this year is even worse at nearly 19% which is a much larger increase in price then we have seen in any past years.



The most disturbing thing about this increase is that it comes at the end of 2005 which as we know has been a year in which the club has had a very changing face and to my thinking would need to ensure continued support of the public. 2005 as we are all aware was obviously the worst ever season for the Knights first grade side and probably one of the worst ever years for the administration although the second half of the year has seen a remarkable turn around that all in the club should be proud of. Despite these poor performances most supporters including myself and my father still attended every game in some of the worst weather we have experienced at Knights home games in years, just to show that we still support the players no matter how bad the year may be going. The opening of the new stadium was a great achievement for Energy Australia Stadium and it may increase the costs for the Knights operating at this ground and I can well understand that ticket holders on the Eastern side of the ground could expect price increases to reflect the much improved facilities and seating they are receiving. However we as Western Grandstand ticket holders have seen no improvement in our facilities or conditions in fact if anything there has been an increase in the number of seats being damaged at games when being used in the normal way. On top of this the parking and transport to and from the ground has not been improved at all, this issue continues to be a major factor making the attendance of a game a difficult and timely experience if you do not arrive hours before the game then leave right on full time or wait for up to an hour trying to leave the Broadmeadow area.



Due to the price increase for 2006 and the fact that we as ticket holders on the Western Lower Deck have not received any “value add” to the features or facilities at the ground, we will not be renewing our tickets for 2006. This is a hard decision that saddens me greatly and one that we did not take lightly or rashly, we have discussed this issue over several times and made investigations into pricing of tickets and alternatives. What we have discovered is that many other clubs season tickets are not as expensive yet the facilities and grounds are of a higher quality (comparing 2005 ticket prices as most clubs have not yet released 2006 prices). The price of the tickets for the Knights come out to be $35 per game per head based on a 26 week season (assuming 24 games for each team and 12 home games) and we have a suspicion that in 2007 when there is an increase in the number of games played that there could be an even larger increase to the ticket price again. However by having foxtel installed on the base package which includes the NRL games, even if you only watch the Knights games you will pay $26.54 per game per television with an extra $6 for each additional television (this is in the first year including the currently offered $49 install fee and only $24.50 for each year after that on current package costs) based on watching both the home and away games as both are available to the viewer. Please do not think that this decision and complaint is based on a personal situation of money being too tight to afford the tickets or even a case of Foxtel being an influence on us not buying tickets as I already have Foxtel on a premium package and held my Knights tickets as well. This is basically a case that the Newcastle Knights as an organisation are not offering their supporters the value for money they deserve this season and we feel that in a year where you asked for so much support and belief from your supporters you have not given us the season ticket holders that financially support this club year in and year out the respect and value that we deserve in return.



As a side note to this issue which is a little off track but I believe is still very relevant to this issue the Knights marketing as a brand I believe is at an all time low. If people such as my self and other supporters that I have spoken to in the past feel that your organisation have not shown the supporters the respect and gratitude that they deserve then what hope do you have of swaying and convincing new supporters and investors to follow and help the club. The players can only do so much (and they do) for this club to show supporters that they mean something. But I feel it is far past time when the club administration needs to do something to show the long term supporters of this great club what it means to them and that the club administration are willing to give something back as a show of thanks. This is not a hard thing to do, every other organisation in the world has considered loyalty schemes and for an organisation like the Knights with an ongoing yearly product it could be easily implemented. You could simply give supporters that have held a seat for 5 consecutive years a discount (for example 5%) then once the tickets have been held 10 years increase it (perhaps 10%) and so on for 20, 30, 40 and if a ticket has been held for 50 years or more then it becomes a flat discount for the life time of that ticket holder. This would certainly encourage people to hold onto tickets in the good and the bad times and show them that the Knights recognise and respect the people who have financially supported them for extended periods of time. Alternatively you could sell season tickets for blocks of time the same way that telecommunications companies and other service providers (such as your stadium sponsors Energy Australia) sell contracts for services to customers; this protects the customer from price increases and ensures the Knights have a locked income from the ticket for a given length of time. You could offer seats for 2, 5, 10, and15 year blocks at different upfront prices, as a good selling point the longer the period purchased the better the price per year is. In calculating the price of the extended period tickets you can add in a CPI increase percentage per year so that you are covered for inflation but the customer is also protected against price increases above normal inflationary rates for the period of the ticket. These are not new ideas that are coming from left field or from some crazy fan ranting off ideas with “a thousand cans under his belt” these are ideas and marketing approaches that companies much larger and more successful then the Knights have been using successfully for a long time.



As an employee of a company that has one of the most recognised corporate logos and identities in Australia and is recognised as a leader in the marketing of our industry I can see that the Knights must make some changes to stay in the forefront of the professional sporting industry. One of the most important components to the success of the Knights even above the performance of the teams on ground is the ability to stand out as a sporting identity and convert this into revenue through merchandise and supporter dollars, which will obviously lead to better sponsorship dollars as well. One of these changes that needs to be made to make this possible must be to show the community, the customer and your staff, that you as an organisation care about all three groups equally and even make them feel that you could and would put any of them before the almighty dollar (even though it may not and should not be true).



I look forward to a response from the Knights explaining why I have made an error in my decision making process and why I as a long term season ticket holder should continue my association and monetary support of the Newcastle Knights by purchasing a 2006 season ticket.

Regards
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,271
Are you including the fact that you get membership for free with the season ticket? (it might have been in the letter, but to be honest it looks too long for me to read and take in at work).

I would suggest you may be in a minority who would begrudge the club from trying to raise more money given the perilous financial position they were in (and could quite easily slip back into) this year.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,103
Ross Cadell (think that's his name) reads this forum I think he's the sponsorship manager of the club, so you may get a response from him. I guess though it's like everything these days, prices go up, and if you really want the product then you pay for it, if not then you don't.
 
Messages
16,034
19% does seem fairly steep I have to say, but just wanted to comment that was a really well written and thought out letter, will be interested to hear the response.
 

Innconu

Juniors
Messages
116
Alex28 said:
Are you including the fact that you get membership for free with the season ticket? (it might have been in the letter, but to be honest it looks too long for me to read and take in at work).

I would suggest you may be in a minority who would begrudge the club from trying to raise more money given the perilous financial position they were in (and could quite easily slip back into) this year.

Yeah I did include the membership price by using the discounted members price for last year made up of the price of the ticket less the 50 dollar discount and then added the price of the membership. So it is apples to apples

I do not begrudge the club a profit or the chance to get out of a hole. your right the letter is long but I said basically the eastern side prices rise is understandable as they have had added value for their ticket but we on the Western side have had nothing added but our prices increased by a similar margin

It is like a telco increasing home phone prices in Sydney because they have a new video phone feature. But then increasing the price in Newcastle as well but not adding the feature to the Newcastle lines.
 

Innconu

Juniors
Messages
116
antonius said:
Ross Cadell (think that's his name) reads this forum I think he's the sponsorship manager of the club, so you may get a response from him. I guess though it's like everything these days, prices go up, and if you really want the product then you pay for it, if not then you don't.

I agree it is what you see as value for money and that was what I tried to draw the letter back to "Bang for your buck"
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,103
I actually think the people in the old grandstand should get a reduction in the price. The conditions there are little better than sitting on the hill, at least on the hill you can stretch out a bit, and get to the toilets, food and drinks a bit easier. I often get invited into one of the open boxes up there, and knock it back because it is so cramped in them, the view of the game is impeded by those bloody columns, and the food and security people standing in front of you.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,271
I'll certainly read the letter when I get home - I'm interested to take a look at your thoughts about the rise in the tickets. My only othger thought is does the club have to contribute towards the new grandstand? Has there been an increase in the rent the club pays on EAS?
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,103
Alex28 said:
I'll certainly read the letter when I get home - I'm interested to take a look at your thoughts about the rise in the tickets. My only othger thought is does the club have to contribute towards the new grandstand? Has there been an increase in the rent the club pays on EAS?
Pretty sure they are re-negotiating the EAS lease this year.
 

Innconu

Juniors
Messages
116
antonius said:
Pretty sure they are re-negotiating the EAS lease this year.

You would think that EAS management would want some more money for what has been done there. But then they would not have had a snowballs chance in hell of getting it without Joey and the Knights putting in the hours they did with Government bodies and sponsors. You would hope that is taken into consideration as well, I am guessing that is what the Knights will put forward as the main reason for the price increases.

The hard bit to swallow as a member is that the increase for existing members is higher then people who were not previously members AND they get an automatic membership for each ticket they purchase.
 

Andy

First Grade
Messages
5,048
Great letter Innconu, we need more people who are willing to take action against things they disagree with, as opposed to simply taking it up the tail-pipe or so to speak. I hope you get a good reply and soon.
 

~bedsy~

First Grade
Messages
5,988
Innconu said:
I do not begrudge the club a profit or the chance to get out of a hole. your right the letter is long but I said basically the eastern side prices rise is understandable as they have had added value for their ticket but we on the Western side have had nothing added but our prices increased by a similar margin

I agree with that statement. It's not such a huge deal for me at the moment as I'm still a student, however for my dad to re-new it can be abit much, however my friend is loaded, he can afford it :lol:
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
I completley agree with the comments re: the western grandstand. The conditions there have not improved since day one yet the season ticket prices continue to go up. I understand prices go up with most things, but usually the quality increases also.

You go to line up for a beer or something to eat and get dripped on by god knows what from above. Its terrible. The conditions in the western grandstand are probably on par with the dressing rooms.
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
21,146
I sit in the western stand (best seats in the house...) and am getting another ticket this year, to take the total (father and I) to 4. Whilst the view (at least where I am) is excellent, I have to agree re: the conditions there. The place feels like it is going to fall down in any sort of soft breeze, let alone strong winds. The place is cramped and wet and smells sorta funky, and the food services in particular are very poor (true of the whole ground really...)

Read a report somewhere that concrete cancer is going to render the stand unsafe after around 2008 anyways... so what are we going to do? rope it off for heritage like they do at leichhart?

If the wests deal goes ahead, a combined stand/club/multi-storey carpark ala Sharks would be ideal - but getting the ISC trust to agree might be the hard (impossible?)part. In any case we desperately need to pull it down and build something newer, bigger and better. Hell, make it even bigger than the eastern stand - build it and they will come...! 35k capacity is what we need!
 

RABK

Referee
Messages
20,694
I'll ask Ross about it.

To be quite honest, i don't think the club got as much money out of the Eastern Stand as they were hoping for hence that might explain the rise in prices.

I believe their also going to push marketing of the Stand, they want the boxes and facilities filled next year.
 

Ross Cadell

Juniors
Messages
7
Innconu, (sorry for this greeting but I not aware of your name)

I have read this post and one some investigating. I presume you are talking about a Western Lower Stand ticket as they are the only ticket we have at $402 for the season. If this is incorrect I again apologise. This is my first year with the Knights but from a 2005 price list the listed price for this property was $328 for a foundation member, $348 for a Member and $398 for a non member. I can find no ticket prices at $312.

On these numbers the raw price would indeed represent a 15.5% increase in cost over the 2005 figure. However with membership now included the 2005 comparison figure should be $348 + $35 = $383. The difference now is only $19 or 4.9% increase over the combined 2005 total.

We are always looking for ways to help our SUPPORTERS (People who commit to all 12 home games) and we carried this into our thinking of the 2006 ticket prices. Quite honestly we are aware of the need to reward these people more and more over those who merely pick the eyes out of the games they want to see. The full and complete structure should reflect this.

I am saddened by your decision not to renew your tickets this season. It was a fine balance for us in picking a number that could help cover the substantially increased ISC rent and other new expenses without alienating the TRUE SUPPORTERS like you. It appears that we have not managed that balance to your satisfaction.

Right across the Knights season ticket campaign we have been focused on increasing yield (not Price) and some corporate prices have gone up and down dramatically to help ensure that we can deliver the best possible services to your football team.

The increase as best I can tell is $1.58 per game for your seat and I am aware that any increases may hurt a number of our fans. We have committed internally to a full review of our membership and season ticket philosophies and I hope that when we do this we can sway you back to supporting the Red and Blue on a regular basis.

If any of the assumptions I have made here are incorrect I apologise and would be happy to discuss this with you.

Best wishes
Ross Cadell
 

Innconu

Juniors
Messages
116
Ross Cadell said:
Innconu, (sorry for this greeting but I not aware of your name)

I have read this post and one some investigating. I presume you are talking about a Western Lower Stand ticket as they are the only ticket we have at $402 for the season. If this is incorrect I again apologise. This is my first year with the Knights but from a 2005 price list the listed price for this property was $328 for a foundation member, $348 for a Member and $398 for a non member. I can find no ticket prices at $312.

On these numbers the raw price would indeed represent a 15.5% increase in cost over the 2005 figure. However with membership now included the 2005 comparison figure should be $348 + $35 = $383. The difference now is only $19 or 4.9% increase over the combined 2005 total.

We are always looking for ways to help our SUPPORTERS (People who commit to all 12 home games) and we carried this into our thinking of the 2006 ticket prices. Quite honestly we are aware of the need to reward these people more and more over those who merely pick the eyes out of the games they want to see. The full and complete structure should reflect this.

I am saddened by your decision not to renew your tickets this season. It was a fine balance for us in picking a number that could help cover the substantially increased ISC rent and other new expenses without alienating the TRUE SUPPORTERS like you. It appears that we have not managed that balance to your satisfaction.

Right across the Knights season ticket campaign we have been focused on increasing yield (not Price) and some corporate prices have gone up and down dramatically to help ensure that we can deliver the best possible services to your football team.

The increase as best I can tell is $1.58 per game for your seat and I am aware that any increases may hurt a number of our fans. We have committed internally to a full review of our membership and season ticket philosophies and I hope that when we do this we can sway you back to supporting the Red and Blue on a regular basis.

If any of the assumptions I have made here are incorrect I apologise and would be happy to discuss this with you.

Best wishes
Ross Cadell

Hi Ross

Your price is probably correct seeing as you have access to the old mail collateral and database of prices and the number I got cam from a discussion email that my father and I had about who was paying who back and what our member ship numbers were for the renewal form etc.

In the email that I received telling me how much I had to pay him back he had said the price was $347. I assumed (and you know what they say when you assume) that the $347 was made up of $35 for the membership and $312 for the ticket as he paid both renewals at the same time. BUT it looks like I actually ripped my poor retired father off $35 . I new that last year members received as $50 discount for the ticket but what it was that he forgot the $35 and was just telling me how much the ticket is (well a dollar out) that I owed him for and this is at the centre of all the calculations that I have made about the price of the ticket.

To the knights I do apologise for the error and this is exactly why I wrote the letter to both the Members and Info email address (who have not yet replied) to make sure that I was not dropping my monetary support unnecessarily and hastily. I also posted on here to try and get other supporters opinion on my thoughts to make sure I was not being too harsh.

However with this new information it will allow me to re-investigate and discuss the issue again with better numbers and figures but one of my main objections to this issue still remains.

If you are a loyal paid club member then last year you paid $383 for your ticket and this year you have paid $402. As you stated this is an increase of about 5%. However if you were just a normal ticket holder who did not make the additional effort to also become a club member then you paid $398 last year and this year you pay $402 and you get yourself an automatic club membership. This means that a non-member has actually had a price increase of 0.5% increase in price with a $35 value bonus membership.

Does this look and feel like a thank you for your support to the long term supporters of the club?

Can you advise us of how the marketing department can have put this pricing package together? If this was released to the market by our company we would appear on the front page of every paper business section around the country and an expose from Today Tonight and ACA would follow the next night.

Please reply here or have some one reply to my email in regards to this as I would like to know if this was an oversight or there is a valid reason for this pricing point.

Regards
Aron
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,271
To be honest, given the increase is only $19 I don't think there is too much to complain about. I pay $35 per year in membership and get bugger all out of it as I live away from Newcastle, can't attend members nights as they are during the week, aren't able to attend all the games so I don't take advantage of early entry and the like. But I give the $35 each year because it is my way of supporting my team.

So your main gripe now is that non-members who bought season tickets now get membership for free?

Ross - quick question. If a member can't attend the proposed members day early in the new year where they get the membership pack, will the packs be mailed out?
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,103
Have to say I think it's great that Ross Cadell has taken the time to reply to this, particually in an open forum, it's good to know that a member of the knights management is prepared to openly discuss things such as this (hats off to you) On the subject of the price, I think the increase is fair enough given the general rise in costs in most areas of day to day expenses, 4.9% isn't really that much. I do agree with Aron though, that the club could maybe look at rewards for long term season ticket holders.
 

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