LACK OF DEPTH?

[Mint Condition]

Just with the 3rd biggest sporting event thing, in some facets it's actually true.

On the whole, it probably really is the 4th biggest (European Soccer Cup being 3rd). I actually researched this a bit last year, comparing the RWC99 to Euro 2000 and Rugby World Cup loses out in television ratings but wins in crowd aggregates. I can't remember everything now though. On the whole though, it really depends on the interpretation and there definately is room to interpret the RWC as the 3rd biggest sporting event, despite it in general having less impressive figures than Euro2000.

I don't think crowds will drop if the Wallabies have a dissapointing tournament. The ARU have marketed it well, people just want to be apart of it. That's why so many tickets have been bought for pool games not involving Australia and other big nations. People that have tickets for the quarters, semis and final will go no matter who's playing. If not there'll be plenty of demand from others for their tickets. The only danger I could see possibly if the Wallabies have a dissapointing tournament would be a drop in media coverage, but even then there's really no other competition during the time of the tournament so I don't think the Wallabies would influence that too much either.

 

[Alan Shore]

Collapsed?

Exactly what you basing that on?

...Bears a nasty resemblance to AFL fans saying that rugby league in NSW is collapsing.

I heard plenty of people complain that professionalism has changed the community vibe of Welsh club rugby - but no one I've spoken to from Wales has said it's collapsing.

The country's going mad over the world cup (be even more so if the national side wasn't playing like crap).

Just look on the stats of new rugby league sides being setup - and they're mostly Union players crossing over. The financial state of the game there is horrendous.

If you want to know more, see wales.rleague.com

 

[The Observer]

Players aren't so much crossing over to RL as playing during the European Summer to keep fit. Let's be realistic here.

 

[The Observer]

Like Te Kaha and some others on this board, I take an interest in both codes. I happen to enjoy League more, but Union. I will correct statements about the codes if I believe they are inaccurate. There are a load of people who just want to bag Union on here rather than learn about it or engage in debate in a sensible manner.

why is it that rugby yawnion teams need to call on rugby league players for their "3rd biggest sporting event in the world"

For a start, Vaikona and Vainikolo were the ones that wanted to play for Ikale Tahi Tonga (the RU national team). Both players were Tongan-born. Vaikona grew up and lived there until he went to Uni in NZ and probably played his junior RU there as well. Both feel very proud to be Tongans.

Considering that Mate Ma'a Tonga (RL) is unlikely to be playing any tests in League any time soon, they probably felt Ikale Tahi Tonga (RU) was their best bet of representing the country. Vaikona was particularly keen and disheartened when Bulls wouldn't release them due to the possible conflict if their club Bradford Bulls reached the SL Grand Final.

Secondly, RU's One Nation eligibility rules are offensively restrictive. There are many Australians and New Zealanders of Tongan extraction that are not allowed to play for Tonga once they have played for another international team - the brothers Kefu and Jonah Lomu are prime examples, and the Wallabies and the All Blacks have no use for them at RWC 03. Attention everybody, let's not get into a debate about international eligibility - it's been done to death.

its called developing your own players

something yawnion has no concept of

Rugby League doesn't own any players. Rugby Union doesn't own any players. The players choose their profession at any particular time, be it RL or RU, and where they want to work. Lenny Beckett stopped playing for Northern Eagles and went on to play for ACT Brumbies. He ceased playing for one poorly run franchise and went to another well run franchise. Well done to him.

To correct you again, there was a significant number of Union contracted players in the Millennium RLWC. John Devereux, Paul Moriarty and Jason Critchley were all loaned to the Wales squad by Welsh RU clubs. They were all originally RU players, switched to league in the early 90s, switched back to RU when it went pro in 1996. Almost the entire South African Rhinos squad were Union players (apart from Bloem, Johnson, Rutgerson, Skelton). Several of the Cook Islanders were Union players too. See the following link for more info (at least as far as the Welsh, but you can take my word for it on the Cooks and the Jaapies):

http://www.rugby-league-world.com/2000/WorldCup/squads.htm

Tamazoid, as for the Welsh RU, current CEO David Moffett (ex NRL CEO) is instituting massive reforms such as reducing the number of top fligh pro teams from 9 to 5, just as we did in the NRL by reducing from 22 to 15. Welsh Rugby is already reaping the benefits of this rationalisation. For example, the new Welsh regional teams in Celtic League have beaten Irish provinces in Ireland for the first time in the history of Celtic League competition.

OTOH Auckland 4ever, NO Union team has a right to complain about RL clubs signing their players. It was the IRB, national Unions and their clubs that refused to pay some players but paid others with slush funds, they chose to keep all the money they made off the players and merchandise and effectively exploit those players. You can't justify the line that RL pillaged those players. The so-called "ethos" of amateurism was always a disgrace to Union and to sport in general, and it was designed to keep the resources of the game in the hands of a few. Let's not kid anyone here.

 

[Auckland4ever]

OTOH Auckland 4ever, NO Union team has a right to complain about RL clubs signing their players. It was the IRB, national Unions and their clubs that refused to pay some players but paid others with slush funds, they chose to keep all the money they made off the players and merchandise and effectively exploit those players. You can't justify the line that RL pillaged those players. The so-called "ethos" of amateurism was always a disgrace to Union and to sport in general, and it was designed to keep the resources of the game in the hands of a few. Let's not kid anyone here.

True enough, pillaged was a poor choice of word. I worked with a Welshman & he was primarily dirty on RL clubs for the state of Welsh rugby. Pillaged was the word he used, but really, his slant on things was no different than some of the union haters that frequent this forum.
Despite the death of shamaturism, the ethics within the IRB havent appeared to change too much.

 

[dimitri]

Secondly, RU's One Nation eligibility rules are offensively restrictive

how did patricio noriegia play for both aus and argentina?

 

[The Observer]

Secondly, RU's One Nation eligibility rules are offensively restrictive

how did patricio noriegia play for both aus and argentina?

Noriega was born, grew up and played his junior Rugby in Argentina. He played for the Pumas in the early 90s. Later he decided he wanted to give his kids a better quality of life by bringing them up in another country, and chose Australia.

He signed for the Brumbies in mid 90's, served 3 years residency, got his citizenship and played for the Wallabies.

He did this before the IRB changed its regulations on International Eligibility, which was around 1998-1999, after the 'Grannygate' controversy.

 

[dimitri]

correct me if im wrong

but doesnt YAWNION still have a grandparent rule

its just that you have to stick to that country

 

[The Observer]

Rugby Union does allow players to qualify for another country under the grandparent rule, but once you play for one national team you can only play for that national team.

 

[dimitri]

i think thats a great rule

and would be happy if league introduced that rule too

 

[dimitri]

i think thats a great rule

and would be happy if league introduced that rule too

 

[CanadianSteve]

Henry Paul has played league for NZ and union for England under the grandparent rule, I believe.

 

[JoeD]

Good post Joker. Its always good to hear from people who aren't biased either way and also know what they are talking about.

 

[Mango]

As I recall the mungo code has bought over 100 WALLABIES and several hundred other rugby players, yet they think the real rugby code buying 3 yet to be proven mungoes shows a lack of depth of talent in Heavens code. God, the mungoes call their major award after a ex HEAVENS man.
MANGO.

 

[Stevo_G]

u r full of facts aren't u,
wallabies r gonna do real well at the world cup :lol: :lol: the league converts will do them well