Latin Heat v Phillipines ~ 2015 Magellan Cup

[Rodney]

Apparently the Philippines are establishing a proper contact league this year.

https://www.facebook.com/nospam1/ph...4502195319995/541169459319934/?type=1&theater

 

[Evil Homer]

Evil Homer, it's a starting point. No one's claiming it's a recognised test match. The organisers and some of the players with closer ties to their birthplaces are working towards development in South America. It doesn't just happen overnight. A number of players across the 3 grades that played were not Australian born, some are not permanent residents, and a fair few have picked up the game in the last 2 years due to this team.

That's fine, good on them, it's noble cause and I respect their intentions etc, it's just not an international match and I don't understand why Aussies tend to dress this sort of thing up as such. I've helped out with the British Asian Rugby Association in the past which is a similar initiative but there are no pretenses of it being some sort of 'international development', it's just a way of engaging new communities in the sport. I hope the Heat do well and wish them all the best, I just don't want Aussies to start blurring the lines and misunderstanding what international RL is again as always seems to happen with this type of thing (the aforementioned NZ Maoris for example). If the Heat can assist in any way with actual developments in South or Central America then that's fantastic.

 

[gyallop]

I accept that the heat arent a country but at least the latinos were born in Latin America. If they were a country ala the Philippine team how is it blurring the lines with world sports grandparent rule? I understand the Philippines were all eligible under the RLIF rules.
If your view is right then Samoa v Australia or Samoa v Tonga or Samoa v Fiji when played in Australia arent tests let alone internationals if played in Australia....they are aussies playing aussies in Australia!
Some places call a game against a team of nufties from another country playing in their backyard an international...I think the "international" line has been long blurred which makes true tests a point of difference.

 

[Evil Homer]

I accept that the heat arent a country but at least the latinos were born in Latin America. If they were a country ala the Philippine team how is it blurring the lines with world sports grandparent rule? I understand the Philippines were all eligible under the RLIF rules.
If your view is right then Samoa v Australia or Samoa v Tonga or Samoa v Fiji when played in Australia arent tests let alone internationals if played in Australia....they are aussies playing aussies in Australia!
Some places call a game against a team of nufties from another country playing in their backyard an international...I think the "international" line has been long blurred which makes true tests a point of difference.

I don't have any problems with the Philippines team, as long as there is actual presence and activity in the Philippines. Otherwise it's just a pointless waste of time. The likes of Samoa and Fiji may be mainly Aussies but they are clearly representing the country in question, it isn't just a bunch of blokes running around pretending to be a national team.

Look, it isn't difficult to understand what international footy is. There are 195 sovereign countries in the world. Each one has a national team, most of them haven't played yet but if we introduced the sport to Mongolia or somewhere and they played against another country then that would be the Mongolia national team. Some other non-sovereign entities like Scotland and the Cook Islands may also have a national team if that is the accepted practice in international sports. Apart from that, there are no other international teams, and there never will be unless new countries are created. I don't know why this is so hard for some of you to understand.

 

[deal.with.it]

Is there a difference between an International and a Test?
Canada would count their matches against touring GB outfits as Internationals, but they're not test matches.
Russia probably counts their match against the Midlands as the same.
Perhaps these are Invitational Internationals?
But definitely not sanctioned tests.

 

[Sydney Knight]

Don't see why we are arguing about what it is called? Its all positive stuff for RL. Lebanon would probably not have a domestic comp these days if the early ground work wasn't done in Australia maybe the Philippines will end up with a similar result.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Expansionist, I was nearly going to pm you to see if you wanted to go but the movies & air conditioning won out

Haha same here actually. I ended up having cousins staying which prevented me.

You pair of soft c**ks ;-)

I was there braving the humidity and mozzies to support the concept, which I think is fantastic and all involved should be applauded. I see nothing wrong with teams like the Heat representing multiple nations and being recognised officially for it as long as they meet the selection criteria. There has been talk for years about a combined PI team playing tests and no one seems to question the validity of that idea

At the end of the day any exposure RL can get into other markets is a win and people putting up their hands to do it deserve our support as RL fans

 

[Rodney]

All this whinging about heritage lineups.

People don't realize how valuable a competitive football team is.
Fiji have gone from an almost exclusively heritage lineup to now an almost 50/50 one for their best team, and for the game against Lebanon last year most of their team (9 of 17) was born in Fiji.

Watch in the next couple of years how Samoa takes off as well.
With the Pacific Strategy and some impressive recent form expect to see a lot more players who were born on the island.

It might be tacky to see an exotic team running out captain by Harold Smith but it bodes far better for international development then playing our domestic product versus theirs (see 2000 RLWC)

The heat are setting up a framework.
Now there is a much more connected net of players eligible to play for south american countries.
BARLA never set up any national teams nor supported any domestic organizations as far as i'm aware.
The Heat program is much more expansive in its goals than BARLA.

The Heat provide a network, resources for people on the ground (through the translating program theyre into + they ship kit) as well as providing a general meeting point for people interested in trying to grow rugby league in the region.

 

[Bronco Rob]

Although I know and appreciate the work the Latin Heat put into RL I too questioned the worth of this game a few weeks ago and how would it benefit the game and questioned whether the resources spent on this fixture could be better served elsewhere. But I thought about it and realised that all it takes is some of these players from the Latin Heat to go back to their nations of heritage and spruik Rugby League to their countrymen and how great the game is.

Obviously the game would have been better served if played in the Phillipines but
nevertheless it's a start. I'm a form believer though that the domestic game should be a focus of resources not on Internationals that don't serve much purpose other than to give a few blokes a run who may never set foot in their respective countries to help the game out.

 

[deal.with.it]

It's still a big commitment to play in this game. Travel, time, injuries etc. all of which should nor be forgotten by arm chair critics. Having an opinion that donestic activity should be the focus is fine, but voicing negative opinions in harsh, unfair and often cybical ways is plain stupid.
Latin Heat don't claim to be a nation. The Philippines know they need to griw the game domestically. But Rugby League is meant to accept all and allow all to play the game. It was never billed as a test match.

 

[The Partisan]

The first taste of International RL in Oz for the year.

Realise it has its detractors and is not for some of the purists .... but i think it deserves a mention !

Mmmmm........


From my perspective Rob and his merry band are doing the game a great service by having this platform for possible new frontiers in Central / South America.

May not happen in the next two years ... or perhaps ten years .. or maybe never ... but at least they are trying to grow the game - and for that they should be admired.

If they aren't tarnishing the International RL 'brand' - I can't see it being a bad thing.

(PS. Had fully intended to get there .......but was distracted by an unplanned tour of Brisbane microbreweries ......and several pints of cider !!!)

 

[expansionist]

You pair of soft c**ks ;-)

I was there braving the humidity and mozzies to support the concept, which I think is fantastic and all involved should be applauded. I see nothing wrong with teams like the Heat representing multiple nations and being recognised officially for it as long as they meet the selection criteria. There has been talk for years about a combined PI team playing tests and no one seems to question the validity of that idea

At the end of the day any exposure RL can get into other markets is a win and people putting up their hands to do it deserve our support as RL fans

fair call...

 

[Evil Homer]

All this whinging about heritage lineups.

People don't realize how valuable a competitive football team is.
Fiji have gone from an almost exclusively heritage lineup to now an almost 50/50 one for their best team, and for the game against Lebanon last year most of their team (9 of 17) was born in Fiji.

Watch in the next couple of years how Samoa takes off as well.
With the Pacific Strategy and some impressive recent form expect to see a lot more players who were born on the island.

It might be tacky to see an exotic team running out captain by Harold Smith but it bodes far better for international development then playing our domestic product versus theirs (see 2000 RLWC)

The heat are setting up a framework.
Now there is a much more connected net of players eligible to play for south american countries.
BARLA never set up any national teams nor supported any domestic organizations as far as i'm aware.
The Heat program is much more expansive in its goals than BARLA.

The Heat provide a network, resources for people on the ground (through the translating program theyre into + they ship kit) as well as providing a general meeting point for people interested in trying to grow rugby league in the region.

Huh? What are you talking about, what does BARLA have to do with anything? Nobody is complaining the Heat being a heritage team, the 'complaints' if they can be called that were just people pointing out that they regardless of their intentions and goals, they are not an international team and never will be. I think everyone supports the idea in principle, realistically there is a very limited amount that can be done from thousands of miles away but if it helps at all with any actual development in the future then that's a good thing and worth the effort. But when you have zealots talking about official international recognition etc then it just becomes ridiculous.

Understand that I'm not against the Heat match taking place, in fact I'm happy it was played. I'm just trying to point out it's not an international match and doesn't need to be dressed up as such.

There has been talk for years about a combined PI team playing tests and no one seems to question the validity of that idea

Everyone with a brain questions this. It's a f**king stupid idea. Please read what I posted earlier about what international RL is.

 

[Bronco Rob]

It's still a big commitment to play in this game. Travel, time, injuries etc. all of which should nor be forgotten by arm chair critics. Having an opinion that donestic activity should be the focus is fine, but voicing negative opinions in harsh, unfair and often cybical ways is plain stupid.
Latin Heat don't claim to be a nation. The Philippines know they need to griw the game domestically. But Rugby League is meant to accept all and allow all to play the game. It was never billed as a test match.

DWI if you're having a shot at me please read my post again and my last statement was not having a shot at this game at all. On the contrary as I said I think the work the Latin Heat do for the game is good for the game in spread the gospel and have stated that in other threads.

 

[deal.with.it]

Bronco Rob, no shot at you mate.

 

[Rodney]

Huh? What are you talking about, what does BARLA have to do with anything?

You brought BARLA up and implicated that the Latin Heat were effectively doing the same thing.

it's just not an international match and I don't understand why Aussies tend to dress this sort of thing up as such. I've helped out with the British Asian Rugby Association in the past which is a similar initiative but there are no pretenses of it being some sort of 'international development',

The Latin Heat have acted as effectively a national team.
They follow the rules for national team selection (only applied to the 30 something countries they represent) and are in co-operation with the RLIF.
The can't be considered a 'national team' but they're definitely a representative side.
And its not totally out of order to have a pseudo-national side made up of multiple countries.

The key is establishing structures.
The organization is earning money, playing matches and granting remote organizations access to resources.
Creating a representative side means constant evaluation of the available player pool as well as incentive for players in developing nations.

Nobody is complaining the Heat being a heritage team, the 'complaints' if they can be called that were just people pointing out that they regardless of their intentions and goals, they are not an international team and never will be.

They can never be a national team, but they could easily be an 'international team' in the vain of a Great Britain and Ireland if formed again today.

I think everyone supports the idea in principle, realistically there is a very limited amount that can be done from thousands of miles away but if it helps at all with any actual development in the future then that's a good thing and worth the effort. But when you have zealots talking about official international recognition etc then it just becomes ridiculous.

The Heat will never be a ranked test team but that doesn't mean they cant be an international entity.
The RLIF recognizing the matches they play in and supporting them is not to declare them a finished entity.
Its a work in progress.
They're not going to be a governing body for the sport, they're a means to establishing and supporting individual governing bodies and teams in the region via grouping players eligible for those nations and giving them match experience.

 

[deal.with.it]

They could become a confederation team in time, with sovereign nations under them.

 

[Sydney Knight]

I read on Facebook that El Salvador and Chile were competing separately in the Cabbramatta 9s

 

[Evil Homer]

You brought BARLA up and implicated that the Latin Heat were effectively doing the same thing.The Latin Heat have acted as effectively a national team.
They follow the rules for national team selection (only applied to the 30 something countries they represent) and are in co-operation with the RLIF.
The can't be considered a 'national team' but they're definitely a representative side.
And its not totally out of order to have a pseudo-national side made up of multiple countries.

The key is establishing structures.
The organization is earning money, playing matches and granting remote organizations access to resources.
Creating a representative side means constant evaluation of the available player pool as well as incentive for players in developing nations.

They can never be a national team, but they could easily be an 'international team' in the vain of a Great Britain and Ireland if formed again today.

The Heat will never be a ranked test team but that doesn't mean they cant be an international entity.
The RLIF recognizing the matches they play in and supporting them is not to declare them a finished entity.
Its a work in progress.
They're not going to be a governing body for the sport, they're a means to establishing and supporting individual governing bodies and teams in the region via grouping players eligible for those nations and giving them match experience.

My bad, I should have realized you meant BARA. BARLA is a completely different thing for UK fans.

Yes, the BARA are doing the exact same thing as the Heat, they are attempting to provide contacts and develop RL within a minority group that is largely alien to the sport. They only difference is that they haven't made grandiose claims about being some sort of international entity, because they realize that they aren't. The Heat is a body with the intention of helping to promote international RL, but it isn't an international RL body. There is a big difference.

Once again, I'm not criticizing the Heat's efforts or detracting from them at all. I'm happy that they exist and hope they keep doing what they're doing. But people in Australia tend to get over-zealous with things like this and I don't want to see another situation where we end up with fake teams like the pseudo-Italy, Greece, Portugal etc sides that ultimately achieve nothing apart from making international RL into a laughing stock. The Heat is a representative team for the Australian-Latino community, not an international side. If they want to lend support to actual international sides in the future then that's great, but realistically they are just well-wishers like the rest of us. There is currently no documented RL presence in Chile, El Salvador or anywhere in South or Central America apart from Mexico and a small pocket of players in Brazil.

 

[DC_fan]

Mandurah man represents Latin American rugby team
By Francis Curro

Jan. 22, 2015, 3:35 p.m.
A Mandurah man represented a Latin American rugby league side against the Philippines last Saturday.

Honour: Grantito Chacone represented the Latin Heat last Saturday.

A MANDURAH man represented a Latin American rugby league side against the Philippines last Saturday.

Grantito Chacone was the only member selected from Western Australia to represent the Latin Heat.

The Latin Heat went down 80-4, with Chacone giving an inspired ‘Yaoyotl Och Acelotl’ (Jaguar Chant) before the game.

Chacone was eligible to play for the side because of his heritage, with other members of the squad coming from the eastern states.

He described the selection as an honour and said it he hoped it would help promote rugby league in other parts of the world.

“I am an agile fullback who likes to be aggressive and have plenty of experience,” he said.

“It was a really big honour to be able to represent WA and rugby league.”
Chacone moved to Mandurah two years ago from Queensland and now lives in Halls Head.

He said he has now entrenched himself into the community and works at Debbies Café in Halls Head.

His two children are also rugby fans, as they play for the Mandurah Storm.
Chacone said he would like to see a rugby league side in the state and it would be more of a success than the WA Reds were back in the 1990s, but were shut down due to the Super League War.

“I don’t think we were ready for a rugby team back then,” he said.

“I think rugby league in WA has come in leaps and bounds.” Chacone said he was proud to now call Mandurah his home.

http://www.mandurahmail.com.au/story/2834645/mandurah-man-represents-latin-american-rugby-team/