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Let's level kids' playing field - Gould

nqboy

First Grade
Messages
8,914
SMH
Phil Gould | July 6, 2008

I've been watching a lot of junior rugby league over the past two years and have come to the conclusion that we need to rethink the way we structure our junior league competitions.

I'm fast developing the opinion that young kids - say from five to nine - don't need to be playing rugby league matches against other clubs.
And youngsters from, say, 10 to 12 don't need to play full contact, tackle football. I'll elaborate in a moment.

Maybe I'm off the pace but I get the feeling we're not maximising the enjoyment and participation factor for every kid who plays in a junior footy team each weekend. As a code we can get smarter about introducing kids to physical contact ball sports by offering a curriculum that teaches children all the skills currently offered by league, rugby, football and AFL.

I'll tell you what I see - you tell me if this sounds like your child's weekly rugby league experience. I see the kid - say between five and nine - who turns up every Saturday all excited because he loves the footy on the television and his schoolmates are playing, so he wants to be part of the action.

His parents fork out for registration, boots, shorts, socks, shoulder pads, headgear, mouth guard and water bottle - not to mention the cost of time and petrol getting him to training a couple of nights a week and to the football grounds in neighbouring suburbs through the hectic Saturday morning junior sports traffic.

The youngster plays his 30- or 40-minute game and, if he's lucky, maybe gets to touch the ball a couple of times. He can't catch the better kids in the opposition team and he can't tackle the bigger ones. When it's his turn to have a run with the ball, by the time he gets it off the first receiver the better kids in the opposition race up and tackle him before he gets to run anywhere.

I see junior games where one team wins 60-, 70-, sometimes 90-0.
They score a try. The weaker team kicks off. Four tackles later the strong team scores again. This process is interrupted only by the half-time whistle.

Even if the weaker team manages to tackle the opposition for five tackles and forces them to kick, they generally drop the kick and possession is immediately given back to the stronger team to continue the rout. What good is that? For most kids of tender ages, six-tackle football is too many tackles to have to defend.

I even see the parents of the winning team running up and down, screaming at their kids, yelling and cheering as though this ridiculous domination is a good thing. Maybe for their egos it is - but surely it's not for the good of the kids.

The young kids who referee these games take no sympathy on the weaker sides, nor offer any coaching or assistance to the participants. Surely there has to be a better way.

I'm thinking the whole concept of junior football needs an overhaul; or at least the rules they currently play under require modification. Of course, that's easy for me to say - but if you got enough smart people together they could come up with a curriculum for junior league clubs and coaches to follow that would be of greater benefit and enjoyment to the kids and their parents.

Your junior rugby league club would become more of a rugby league academy, where youngsters go along to learn the game and practise the skills in an organised and low-pressure environment. No mums and dads yelling at the kids or the referees. No antagonism with opposition supporters.

Your kid could go along and run in races, enjoy passing drills, kick the ball, kick a goal, score a try, tackle the bags, and more. Each session could conclude with a small game of three-on-three action or something of the like. I'm just brainstorming here. Smarter people than me could come up with plenty of enjoyable ideas for the youngsters.

A couple of times a year you could have the gala day where kids from opposition teams have a game against each other - but until they reach the age of 10 I don't think regular competition is the be-all and-end-all it has been for all these years.

Children between the ages of five and nine require only active participation in well-conducted clinics and simulated rugby league skill games at their home ground each weekend (less travel hassle for mums and dads too, I would suggest).

Between 10 and 12, I really love the OzTag brand of football which calls for kids to wear Velcro tags on the sides of their shorts. Defenders only have to remove one of these tags for a tackle, or tag, to be effected. This game offers all the skills of rugby league without the concern of physical contact from making tackles. This takes away the problem of big kids dominating little kids - a growing problem in our junior sport, given the increasing numbers of Polynesian youngsters playing our game. No good side-stepping the issue - let's deal with it.

From 13 years we start to play full contact league and the kids start to discover if they seriously like the physical nature of our game or not. Maybe you have a different view on this that you would like to share. I'm open to all suggestions.
 

bobmar28

Bench
Messages
4,304
I went to my mates kids game yesterday, All Saints v Liverpool Catholic Club (10 yrs). They were thrashed 36-6. It looked like the other team (LCC) had more bigger polynesian kids.

I'm not so sure it matters that much, you can't wrap them in cotton wool and maybe the physical nature of the game toughens them up a bit, for life in general. Maybe austag could be an option for those parents concerned about tackling.
 

Copa

Bench
Messages
4,969
some good suggestions in there ... something to look at.

Some of the kids just want to have some fun with their mates...
 

skeepe

Immortal
Messages
48,303
I know the mercy rule exists in Canberra, where the game stops if one team gets out to a 50 point lead... I always thought it was an Australia-wide rule. Obviously not if Gould has seen 90 point beatings.
 

Parra

Referee
Messages
24,900
Modifying the rules so that the emphasis is on fun & skill development is the way to go. This wont please some of the parents - but who cares, kids sport is for the kids. This is the way to combat perceived threats from other codes - if kids walk at this age then it is very hard to get them back.
 

skeepe

Immortal
Messages
48,303
Modifying the rules so that the emphasis is on fun & skill development is the way to go. This wont please some of the parents - but who cares, kids sport is for the kids. This is the way to combat perceived threats from other codes - if kids walk at this age then it is very hard to get them back.

They've already done that though with the modified rule set. I'm not sure what else they can do. I certainly don't think further modifications are going to make much difference. The situations Gould is talking about certainly don't happen every game either - far from it.
 

Chook Norris

First Grade
Messages
8,319
i've been thinknig of young kids playing oztag or touch footy... does help with the skill factor
 

Lockyer4President!

First Grade
Messages
7,975
Modifying the rules so that the emphasis is on fun & skill development is the way to go.
That what soccer has done for their juniors, they've introduced 'small sided games' where there is no goalie and the focus is on individual skills.


Gould has a few good ideas imo, especially to put the focus on OzTag (basically touch footy with kicking) up until age 12/13.
 

Walt Flanigan

Referee
Messages
20,727
I know the mercy rule exists in Canberra, where the game stops if one team gets out to a 50 point lead... I always thought it was an Australia-wide rule. Obviously not if Gould has seen 90 point beatings.

Must be a newish rule. We smacked the poor old Jerrabomberra Diggers by 130 down at kippax when I was 14. It's probably a good rule to have in place.
 

Coaster

Bench
Messages
3,162
I think we should be looking at maybe weight divisions for under 11-15 on top of the current structure.

I posted this in the Titans forum a few weeks back while we were having this discussion

The Islanders ect are just too big for anglo kids to play against at lower age groups. And they are being pushed out of the game. Its all good to say they should get used to it ect, but this is not the way the world works.

The simple facts are that kids that cannot compete against quicker maturing kids are being lost to the game, they may have the best balls skills in Australia, but if they cannot weekly dominate massive Islanders ect, they do not get a spot in the team, because some other big kid will get it.

And small kids dont stay small, just because they are small at 12 doesnt mean they will be Preston Cambell size as an adult, they just develope different

An example of this is one of the kids in a junor comp in Sydney, he has fantastic skills, but is small compared to the Islanders ect in the comp, there is no doubt that when he matures he has a great League carera in front of him. But becuase of his size atm, he does not make Rep sides, they choose the larger fellas. Becuase this kid is so gifted however, he was chosen in the school State side for Aussie rules, now where is this kid going to end up?

He loves league, but cant compete yet, will he stay and get bashed for the next 4 years, or switch to AFL, where he is rewarded for his skills, and nurtured?

There is no quality halves being developed simply becuase they are being shunted from the team to make way for size, this doesnt happen as much in Qld yet, but we are not far from it.

IMO we are not losing these kids at 7-11 we are losing them between 11-15, because of the contact nature of our sport, smaller less developed kids are always going to struggle
 

j0nesy

Bench
Messages
3,747
Yeah I like Gould's suggestions. I'd take it one step further and introduce weight divisions from U13's - U18's again. It's completely unfair when a 50kg 13yo has to play against a 90kg 13yo. Some would say that's life but, for kids, it really is just a game. Who's to say that some of the smaller kids that give the game away wouldn't have become stars of the NRL, some kids don't mature physically until their early 20's.
 

VictoryFC

Bench
Messages
3,786
Funnily enough, the FFA (soccer) recently implemented a national scheme a few months ago on this same thing! Looks like Gus has been getting some ideas...

They completely made it so (my details are sketchy) its like 5v5 for for certain age group, then as the age groups get higher, its 6v6, then at 12 or something they start playing 11v11 on a regular pitch competitively.

This is what a lot of soccer powerhouses in the world use. The kids have way more fun, as the emphasis on winning and competition is taken away from the game. There is no pressure. They just go out to have a good time. As someone mentioned there is no goalie for these younger groups, and the goal size is reduced significantly.

Having smaller sided games increases skill as kids get to touch the ball WAY more than they would playing 11v11, they get to score more etc etc. They have also implemented measures against something Gus touched on; aggressive parenting. Big effort to get them out of the sport for these younger age groups.

All in all if league follows soccer footsteps, itll be on the right track with this one. Its a no brainer really. There are numerous benefits for implementing something along the lines of what Gus has mentioned.
 
Messages
12,482
Some of the kids just want to have some fun with their mates...


And that should never be discouraged. They may not be good enough to play at a senior level when they're older but hopefully they'll be jersey or season ticket buying fans in the future.
 

TheDalek079

Bench
Messages
4,432
don't like the oztag idea. last year there was an article on the news or current affairs show here in NZ about parents taking their kids to league after rugby implemented the oztag/ripper rugby.
when i was a wee lad, we never saw scores like 100-0. i think the most we ever got to was 60
 

NK Arsenal

Juniors
Messages
1,861
Funnily enough, the FFA (soccer) recently implemented a national scheme a few months ago on this same thing! Looks like Gus has been getting some ideas...

They completely made it so (my details are sketchy) its like 5v5 for for certain age group, then as the age groups get higher, its 6v6, then at 12 or something they start playing 11v11 on a regular pitch competitively.

This is what a lot of soccer powerhouses in the world use. The kids have way more fun, as the emphasis on winning and competition is taken away from the game. There is no pressure. They just go out to have a good time. As someone mentioned there is no goalie for these younger groups, and the goal size is reduced significantly.

Having smaller sided games increases skill as kids get to touch the ball WAY more than they would playing 11v11, they get to score more etc etc. They have also implemented measures against something Gus touched on; aggressive parenting. Big effort to get them out of the sport for these younger age groups.

All in all if league follows soccer footsteps, itll be on the right track with this one. Its a no brainer really. There are numerous benefits for implementing something along the lines of what Gus has mentioned.

Yeah that's true, but the Small Sided Games (SSG) concept has been great for football.

The AFL currently has an auskick program where kids go along and learn the skills. My cousin who lives in NQ is part of it (unfortunately) and he loves it.

Why can't we introduce a similar scheme?
 
Messages
1,186
i've been thinknig of young kids playing oztag or touch footy... does help with the skill factor

This is an area where the NRL / ARL / NSWRL / CRL (too many RL's) could be funding school clinics and competitions in Touch or Oztag. And not just a bit... make it a blitz! Perfect for both boys and girls to have fun and learn integral skills to the game of Rugby League.

Schools in the Illawarra play "Dragon-Tag", a Dragon's development thing. There needs to be a lot more though. From first hand experience, the AFL are very effective at getting into schools. The Dragons donate the gear which is great. Only problem is it relies on the teachers to use it. Whereas the AFL are willing (and able) to spend alot of time with schools and even run comps.

I've run a touch comp as Friday afternoon sport for boys and girls and they loved it. But here's what I had to do first... I had to beat off the AFL development officer who wanted to run an AFL comp, as well as the other teacher (who said she "doesn't like sport") who was in talks with him and tried to get it going. And another problem is the lack of male teachers in primary schools. That's where league needs to pick up the slack and get in there, because let me tell you - kids, particularly boys, are really missing out on having fun playing games which eventually influence their choice of support for a particular code. It wasn't hard for me to do, kids were in teams (using old Rugby League logos - Bears, Rams, Magpies etc) comp ladder in the newsletter, parents helping me referee (I was the only male teacher, and thus only one interested) and they absolutely loved it. Now I'm not there... I've been told the kids are doing next to nothing for sport again and I guess it will be only a matter of time before the AFL guy drops in for a visit and capitalises.

It's not about handouts, equipment, showbags... the only cost of getting into schools is time and ensuring the kids have fun. A yearly visit to a school is not enough anymore.
 

greendevil

Juniors
Messages
15
Oztag? great game. But instead of full contact, i don't think so. What do we end up with? A bunch of 12 and 13 year olds going into full contact Rugby League with no idea how to tackle or, more importantly, how to take a tackle. This would be not only a bad thing but irresponsible and quite possibly dangerous. Imagine an aggro 13 year old being let loose after having little or no full contact after 6 or 7 years of playing the game (or a very poor variation thereof). They are going to go absolutley nuts trying to put on the "big hit" like they see on the TV.

I agree fully with the parents things, parents are the blight of Junior Rugby League in my opinion, it IS all about the kids learning the game and enjoying playing it. In QLD, we don't score for games U7-U10, there are no finals for those kids, there is no grading for those kids. We measure success by the number of smiles on faces after a game. After all ,U7, U8 and to an extent U9 is just glorified "chasings". I've posted before on weight divisions before, just can't find it at the moment.

I know there is an issue with the "big kids" vs the "little kids" , but I really don't think that there is a complete solution to the problem. Certainly, Oztag is not it. Just look at junior Union and its no contact rules and play (if you can stand the yawn-fest) and where it has taken the higher levels of that "game".

Yes, there are injuries in Junior League, but stats show that there are less than in other codes.

I believe that there is room for change in the rules of both mini and mod league, but removing full contact is not one of them. Maybe holding off the defending team until the player receiving the ball has either crossed or is at the advantage line, limiting the amount of runs that the "big kid" can have and a few others that I haven't thought out completely.

After all of that, it is about the kids, them learning to play and enjoying the game of Rugby League, not variations thereof and all of a sudden being propelled into international rules at the age of 12 ot 13

Cheers
 

dontmakemeangry

Juniors
Messages
1,237
Here's an idea, how about just "toughin the f**k" up and play all comers before you be them poly lads, big greek lads,fiery red heads or just mad 'going through mad hormone puberty spurt' anglo saxons.

We are really getting soft as a nation, especially rugby league lovers.

Hasn't everyone who has played league thought more than once that the playing fields arent even?

That there is no way we can beat these kids we're playing?
Its called growing as a footballer.

Stop giving modern day young league lovers an excuse to stop playing, why not instead tell them that there's nothing quite like pulling off a bell ringer of a tackle on a kid thats bigger than you!
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,368
Oztag? great game. But instead of full contact, i don't think so. What do we end up with? A bunch of 12 and 13 year olds going into full contact Rugby League with no idea how to tackle or, more importantly, how to take a tackle. This would be not only a bad thing but irresponsible and quite possibly dangerous. Imagine an aggro 13 year old being let loose after having little or no full contact after 6 or 7 years of playing the game (or a very poor variation thereof). They are going to go absolutley nuts trying to put on the "big hit" like they see on the TV.

I agree fully with the parents things, parents are the blight of Junior Rugby League in my opinion, it IS all about the kids learning the game and enjoying playing it. In QLD, we don't score for games U7-U10, there are no finals for those kids, there is no grading for those kids. We measure success by the number of smiles on faces after a game. After all ,U7, U8 and to an extent U9 is just glorified "chasings". I've posted before on weight divisions before, just can't find it at the moment.

I know there is an issue with the "big kids" vs the "little kids" , but I really don't think that there is a complete solution to the problem. Certainly, Oztag is not it. Just look at junior Union and its no contact rules and play (if you can stand the yawn-fest) and where it has taken the higher levels of that "game".

Yes, there are injuries in Junior League, but stats show that there are less than in other codes.

I believe that there is room for change in the rules of both mini and mod league, but removing full contact is not one of them. Maybe holding off the defending team until the player receiving the ball has either crossed or is at the advantage line, limiting the amount of runs that the "big kid" can have and a few others that I haven't thought out completely.

After all of that, it is about the kids, them learning to play and enjoying the game of Rugby League, not variations thereof and all of a sudden being propelled into international rules at the age of 12 ot 13

Cheers

I completely agree....ridiculous suggestion throwing kids in at puberty with no tackling experience whatsoever.

My sons u/12s played a team who had a 70kg monster in their 11's, he arrived late for his game, played the 2nd half only scored 2 tries and was singly responsble for 3 players on the opposition having to go off injured, the week prior their opponents forfeited despite having enough players, the parents didnt want to risk the injuries I saw occur today.
This kid played up a grade in the 12's against my sons team, started the match and played the entire game with two of their regular squad watching from the bench (if one of those was my kid we'd be out of that club in no time) he made some good runs but was less effective playing kids 2 years older than him. Poor form from the officials there, unfair on the big kid, unfair on the other team membners that miss out.

I believe penrith Jnrs have open and weighted divisions - great when you have the numbers to do this- small comps like Balmain DJRL and others cannot with fewer players/teams.

I see my young bloke as the smallest in his team losing interest, as a little bloke it becomes harder as they get bigger/faster, and theres no other option for him except another sport
 
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