Live Q&A

[Tiger05]

Styker - Melbourne produce stars and retain the right ones. Heaps move on from Melbourne as well.

The Rorters are one of the only successful teams who purchase developed stars.

They both have very different approaches.

 

[stryker]

Styker - Melbourne produce stars and retain the right ones. Heaps move on from Melbourne as well.

The Rorters are one of the only successful teams who purchase developed stars.

They both have very different approaches.

Melbourne have a type of player they have identified to work within their system. These players are not always flashy 'stars' but make no mistake they are persued and signed off clubs like ours - from right under our nose.
The Rorters are surely the most blatant but are not an isolated case. Cronulla purchase stars as does Souths - both winning GFs off the back of great checkbook recruitment. Canberra prefer to shop in QLD historically but have focused on England recently and to great effect. Newcastle are beginning to put a roster together using players from outside the Hunter...
These clubs all rely on stars first and then slowly introduce juniors as a secondary action

Our approach is to sign high school stars on overs, make them play first grade too early and then either burn them out or lose them. When we do hit the market we chase players who have already peaked and/or are injury prone, sign them on overs then keep them on the books for years, getting f**k all value for money as they sit in rehab or reserve grade.
We rely on juniors first and then panick when they start drowning and knee jerk sign 'named players' in the hope theyll help the young fellas develop.

That is two different approaches.

 

[Tiger05]

^^^
I don't think it's as easy to do as what you state. Turdesco is a classic example. We did bring him on and paid him well but he was always looking to leave for a better deal.

Mitchell Moses was very similar. He wanted a top dollar deal.

Woods the same.

All 3 are good players who got the money they wanted but would have left a lot earlier if we didn't pay them a decent salary.

I'm wondering how many other high school stars we have overpaid. Honestly I don't think this criticism passes any form of logical discussion.

We do sign some dodgy players especially those that are past it. I think that this has to change. I also think we appear to be thinking value for money now which is good. We also seem to be signing guys up to shorter contracts which is again good. Reynolds, Packer, McQueen & Matulino are all good examples of paying top dollar for aging and past it players to long term contracts but there was also Balin. Clearly did this worse than anyone though.

Melbourne develop most if not all of their players and lose players all the time.

I think our problems stem from overpaying certain players but hopefully we learn from this. I think it started with overpaying Robbie and Benji especially Robbie. Sure he was a great player but we shouldn't have to overpay to retain our start juniors. I think we have a culture of doing this. Then again maybe that is just the nature of the sport today. Marsters and Matterson are two examples of this happening to us now. It's managers trying to get top dollar for their players and themselves.

I think one thing we have to be comfortable doing is letting players go. Even players like Turdesco who can really play. If we are going to screw our cap we should pass on the deal.

 

[Front-Rower]

The Roosters and Melbourne for example identify and purchase the best 4-5 players in key positions then fill a team around those players.

Melbourne have been lucky their key 4 players have consistently performed over the last decade and rarely got hurt.

The Roosters on the other hand burn and churn. One or two “bad” seasons and players are moved on and moved in.

In my opinion both sides were and are only two or three injuries from finishing top 4 to bottom 4.

Meanwhile at the Wests Tigers we are too busy worrying about signing good blokes.

 

[stryker]

^^^
I don't think it's as easy to do as what you state. Turdesco is a classic example. We did bring him on and paid him well but he was always looking to leave for a better deal.

Mitchell Moses was very similar. He wanted a top dollar deal.

Woods the same.

All 3 are good players who got the money they wanted but would have left a lot earlier if we didn't pay them a decent salary.

I'm wondering how many other high school stars we have overpaid. Honestly I don't think this criticism passes any form of logical discussion.

We do sign some dodgy players especially those that are past it. I think that this has to change. I also think we appear to be thinking value for money now which is good. We also seem to be signing guys up to shorter contracts which is again good. Reynolds, Packer, McQueen & Matulino are all good examples of paying top dollar for aging and past it players to long term contracts but there was also Balin. Clearly did this worse than anyone though.

Melbourne develop most if not all of their players and lose players all the time.

I think our problems stem from overpaying certain players but hopefully we learn from this. I think it started with overpaying Robbie and Benji especially Robbie. Sure he was a great player but we shouldn't have to overpay to retain our start juniors. I think we have a culture of doing this. Then again maybe that is just the nature of the sport today. Marsters and Matterson are two examples of this happening to us now. It's managers trying to get top dollar for their players and themselves.

I think one thing we have to be comfortable doing is letting players go. Even players like Turdesco who can really play. If we are going to screw our cap we should pass on the deal.

I think you are wrong but each to their own....

Some of the blokes we overpaid that were too young were Brooks, Moses and Suli. For the money we paid these three we could have targetted 2 Origin level marque players. But we dont think that way.

Btw Woods, Teddy and Moses left not due to money but working conditions. They were sick of being associated with the unprofessional shit show that is Wests Tigers. They needed marquee players helping them and instead they got Rankin, Lawrence and Nofoaluma amongst others.

The fact that Liddle is still on our books proves my point. The top clubs cut players who dont perform. We wait, and wait, and wait...and wait....next year, next year, next year.

 

[simmo05]

I think you are wrong but each to their own....

Some of the blokes we overpaid that were too young were Brooks, Moses and Suli. For the money we paid these three we could have targetted 2 Origin level marque players. But we dont think that way.

Btw Woods, Teddy and Moses left not due to money but working conditions. They were sick of being associated with the unprofessional shit show that is Wests Tigers. They needed marquee players helping them and instead they got Rankin, Lawrence and Nofoaluma amongst others.

The fact that Liddle is still on our books proves my point. The top clubs cut players who dont perform. We wait, and wait, and wait...and wait....next year, next year, next year.

As you stated, the massive coin those 3 gimps were on plus brooks, there was no more money to buy ‘marquee’ players they wanted to help them, they were the marquee players. And they weren’t good enough to bring the rest of the squad to their level, which is what good marquee players do. So they contributed to their own shit working conditions by demanding unreasonable money to begin with

 

[Tiger05]

The Roosters and Melbourne for example identify and purchase the best 4-5 players in key positions then fill a team around those players.

Tell me the 4-5 best players in key positions that Melbourne have purchased. I don't think they purchase top class talent in key positions.

 

[Tiger05]

As you stated, the massive coin those 3 gimps were on plus brooks, there was no more money to buy ‘marquee’ players they wanted to help them, they were the marquee players. And they weren’t good enough to bring the rest of the squad to their level, which is what good marquee players do. So they contributed to their own shit working conditions by demanding unreasonable money to begin with

Do you honestly believe we blew our cap on Brooks, Moses and Suli. I get we may have overpaid and that is debateable based on how well these guys have performed since that point. Personally I don't think those guys screwed us over in relation to the cap.

Brooks and Moses have taken out the last two Dally M halfbacks of the year awards and Suli was a weapon for Manly. I can't see us paying these guys 1 million a season each.

 

[simmo05]

Do you honestly believe we blew our cap on Brooks, Moses and Suli. I get we may have overpaid and that is debateable based on how well these guys have performed since that point. Personally I don't think those guys screwed us over in relation to the cap.

Brooks and Moses have taken out the last two Dally M halfbacks of the year awards and Suli was a weapon for Manly. I can't see us paying these guys 1 million a season each.

Brooks and Moses were on 800 plus a season, at the age of 18. Suli was on about 600 as a teen, turd and woods would have been well up there, and Farah was on 900 back loaded from memory? Check out all other rosters and you will see most caps structured like this. Fact is, we paid these dudes as marquee players, and with the benefit of hindsight, it was a colossal f**kup and the reason we still find ourselves in a merkin of a spot

 

[Tiger05]

Brooks and Moses weren't on that amount or anywhere near it. Neither was Suli. There goes that whole argument.

Sure we overpaid them while we were developing (but not to the level you've listed down) them but other clubs would have paid them that amount as well.

We overpaid Robbie. We overpaid Benji but pulled that contract and let him go. We overpaid Brooks and Moses and Suli but nowhere near that amount. They didn't f**k up our cap. All the guys that left earned more so they weren't the issue or maybe better put they weren't the only issue.

 

[Shredder]

Suli was on massive money.

He was in the papers about it. I think it was the largest contract for a player yet to make his debut.

Three other clubs were chasing him hard.

 

[macnaz]

Suli was on about $1.2 over 3 years .. good money but not massive . Brooks was on 550k for years 2017 & 2018 and Bitch Poses knocked back $700k for the same period. Brooks is now on a 4 year deal worth around 800k a year which isnt bad for a number 7 .

 

[Tiger05]

Suli was on about $1.2 over 3 years .. good money but not massive . Brooks was on 550k for years 2017 & 2018 and Bitch Poses knocked back $700k for the same period. Brooks is now on a 4 year deal worth around 800k a year which isnt bad for a number 7 .

Exactly. The figures that get stated are often exaggerated BS.

 

[axl rose]

Meanwhile at the Wests Tigers we are too busy worrying about signing good blokes.

I remember Wayne Pearce did this with Balmain in the 90's. Got rid of all the talented blokes that had a bad attituide and brought in hard trainers with a good attituide, problem was there were maybe only 3 up to first grade standard. Wooden spoon.

 

[super_coach]

Melbourne have a type of player they have identified to work within their system. These players are not always flashy 'stars' but make no mistake they are persued and signed off clubs like ours - from right under our nose.
The Rorters are surely the most blatant but are not an isolated case. Cronulla purchase stars as does Souths - both winning GFs off the back of great checkbook recruitment. Canberra prefer to shop in QLD historically but have focused on England recently and to great effect. Newcastle are beginning to put a roster together using players from outside the Hunter...
These clubs all rely on stars first and then slowly introduce juniors as a secondary action

Our approach is to sign high school stars on overs, make them play first grade too early and then either burn them out or lose them. When we do hit the market we chase players who have already peaked and/or are injury prone, sign them on overs then keep them on the books for years, getting f**k all value for money as they sit in rehab or reserve grade.
We rely on juniors first and then panick when they start drowning and knee jerk sign 'named players' in the hope theyll help the young fellas develop.

That is two different approaches.

Our standing in the comp has forced our hands on how and who we recruit. We could not do a Chooks or Sharkes and try attract the elite because we would have to massive overs and than still be long odds to land a signature. We could not do a Storm because we did not have the quality for these hard working journeyman to feed off.

Okay your right we have made some dumb calls signing a few players who were over the hill and one step from the bottom and throwing mega bucks at a few kids way before they deserved it. Not sure what the answer is but I think we might be on the right track with Madge...time will tell

 

[simmo05]

Brooks and Moses weren't on that amount or anywhere near it. Neither was Suli. There goes that whole argument.

Sure we overpaid them while we were developing (but not to the level you've listed down) them but other clubs would have paid them that amount as well.

We overpaid Robbie. We overpaid Benji but pulled that contract and let him go. We overpaid Brooks and Moses and Suli but nowhere near that amount. They didn't f**k up our cap. All the guys that left earned more so they weren't the issue or maybe better put they weren't the only issue.

Ahh you said that they were not on that money, you must be right!
So if they were all on peanuts, where the f**k did the rest of the cap go? The whole team must have been on 300 grand each then!

 

[simmo05]

Suli was on about $1.2 over 3 years .. good money but not massive . Brooks was on 550k for years 2017 & 2018 and Bitch Poses knocked back $700k for the same period. Brooks is now on a 4 year deal worth around 800k a year which isnt bad for a number 7 .

Yep, he took a significant pay cut to stay for 17 an 18.

 

[Tiger Ted]

Our standing in the comp has forced our hands on how and who we recruit. We could not do a Chooks or Sharkes and try attract the elite because we would have to massive overs and than still be long odds to land a signature. We could not do a Storm because we did not have the quality for these hard working journeyman to feed off.

Okay your right we have made some dumb calls signing a few players who were over the hill and one step from the bottom and throwing mega bucks at a few kids way before they deserved it. Not sure what the answer is but I think we might be on the right track with Madge...time will tell

Yep we r certainly on the right track with Madge.He has the club travelling in an upwards trajectory.Im confident the club will eventually b a genuine contender for another premiership under Madge’s stewardship.

 

[Tiger05]

Yep we r certainly on the right track with Madge.He has the club travelling in an upwards trajectory.Im confident the club will eventually b a genuine contender for another premiership under Madge’s stewardship.

It'll be interesting what happens in the off season and next year. We need a bunch of players off our books and we need to sign some talent unless we have a couple of gun juniors coming through.

I like Madge but he is in a tough situation. Matterson leaving is also a concern.

 

[stryker]

Our standing in the comp has forced our hands on how and who we recruit. We could not do a Chooks or Sharkes and try attract the elite because we would have to massive overs and than still be long odds to land a signature. We could not do a Storm because we did not have the quality for these hard working journeyman to feed off.

Okay your right we have made some dumb calls signing a few players who were over the hill and one step from the bottom and throwing mega bucks at a few kids way before they deserved it. Not sure what the answer is but I think we might be on the right track with Madge...time will tell

Relocation. Club needs a reset including its stupid name.