London take over

[Father Gascoigne]

"If the report is to be believed, there is chance that move could be made next year, with at least two sides to be welcomed up from the second tier."

Why do you speak with such arrogance?
Seriously? You've literally been wrong about everything.
There's been a push by these clubs for sl for some time now, they're not pushing to be included because there's no way they can afford it... maybe they can't but this push suggests they can't be far off...

London, Toulouse, York, Bradford..big population centres . If done well will lift ratings and get a better TV deal.
It's no surprise that YOU use this argument to push for a Perth team, because you live in Perth but expansion in England? Hell no, not possible, simply because you already have a team in England.

Everything you post is pure self interest.

You realise that the Broncos and Bradford have played in Super League before, right?

The presence of the Broncos in SL made no tangible difference to the broadcast deal in the past, so why would that change now?

If few people are watching, it doesn't matter where the teams are based.

 

[Gobsmacked]

You realise that the Broncos and Bradford have played in Super League before, right?

The presence of the Broncos in SL made no tangible difference to the broadcast deal in the past, so why would that change now?

If few people are watching, it doesn't matter where the teams are based.

Yeah I do realise. They've been absent and the broadcast revenue has gone down..
Seriously, how many more fans do you think turn the game on to watch Bradford? Maybe not many but if isn't zero.
The more geographical area represented across the League, means more people are actively engaged in the league.

 

[Perth Red]

Yeah I do realise. They've been absent and the broadcast revenue has gone down..
Seriously, how many more fans do you think turn the game on to watch Bradford? Maybe not many but if isn't zero.
The more geographical area represented across the League, means more people are actively engaged in the league.

Nobody wants to watch a basket case club regardless of where they are. unless a club can aim for 10k fans, a decent sponsorship portfolio and an owner willing to put in a million quid+ a year then at this time they’ve got no hope of competing, or even surviving.

if the tv deal allowed for a 3-4million pound grant it would be very different, but we are a very long way away from that.

 

[Father Gascoigne]

Yeah I do realise. They've been absent and the broadcast revenue has gone down..
Seriously, how many more fans do you think turn the game on to watch Bradford? Maybe not many but if isn't zero.
The more geographical area represented across the League, means more people are actively engaged in the league.

Geographical spread is important, true. Bradford would get people from Bradford watching. London does not move the needle as there's no real interest in the game there.

I don't think this would result in any great uptick in broadcast revenue as the market there is stagnant across sport. Super League doesn't have much leverage with Sky, which better explains why deals have trended down.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Nobody wants to watch a basket case club regardless of where they are. unless a club can aim for 10k fans, a decent sponsorship portfolio and an owner willing to put in a million quid+ a year then at this time they’ve got no hope of competing, or even surviving.

if the tv deal allowed for a 3-4million pound grant it would be very different, but we are a very long way away from that.

The game will go further into decline with your attitude.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Geographical spread is important, true. Bradford would get people from Bradford watching. London does not move the needle as there's no real interest in the game there.

I don't think this would result in any great uptick in broadcast revenue as the market there is stagnant across sport. Super League doesn't have much leverage with Sky, which better explains why deals have trended down.

All true but the game has to spark interest from somewhere. Investment comes from growth or potential growth.
No great uptick agreed, but it will be an uptick ...

 

[Perth Red]

The game will go further into decline with your attitude.

Its not an attitude, its a reality.
How do you think London or York will survive on crowds of 5k?
How do you think existing clubs will survive if the tv grant reduces further to accommodate extra clubs?

 

[Gobsmacked]

Its not an attitude, its a reality.
How do you think London or York will survive on crowds of 5k?
How do you think existing clubs will survive if the tv grant reduces further to accommodate extra clubs?

How do you expect to grow crowds?
How do you expect to get a bigger TV grant?

What's your plan then mate?
Maybe chop a few more clubs? That'll fix everything lol

 

[Perth Red]

How do you expect to grow crowds?
How do you expect to get a bigger TV grant?

What's your plan then mate?
Maybe chop a few more clubs? That'll fix everything lol

So what's your answer?
Where does the money come from to sustain these new clubs until revenue increases?

I like what IMG is doing, forcing the clubs to get their act together off the field and grow their connections with their communities. Better engage the locals first. We can see in traditionally smaller supported clubs like HKR, Leigh and Wakey the impact that approach is having.

There is no magic answer and there certainly isnt a money tree to 'just grow the game' by adding more clubs from areas with little immediate interest in RL. Working with what we have got and adding to it when the time is right with the correct clubs that can sustain themselves and add to the tv audience is the way to go.

Lets look at the only viable options for expansion of the comp:

Bradford - strong jnr pathway, terrible stadium, potential for good crowds, no rich owner
London - Poor crowds, good stadium, long history in SL of not performing. Would need massive annual investment to make a splash and stay in SL
York - Decent but small stadium, low crowds historically, no rich owner
Toulouse - Decent stadium and crowds, no rich owner, add nothing to UK tv value
Featherstone- Do we need another small town M62 club?

So its not like there is an abundance of riches just waiting to join SL is it? If Bradford could get stadium and investment sorted Id love to see them back in. If London had the serious long term cash investment needed to grow the RL fanbase down there I d love for them to be in.
Toulouse might help the French game so worth a slot if they can pay there way and spend big on jnr development

But the reality is the tv deal is locked in until end of 2026 so there is no more money for more teams. Current clubs wont take more of a haircut to grow to 14 so the Sl is stuck between a rock and hard place for now. Maybe if they can increase the tv deal next time by 10million pounds a year it will give back the existing clubs back the reduced 1/2mill and allow for expansion with 2 more clubs.

 

[Gobsmacked]

So what's your answer?
Where does the money come from to sustain these new clubs until revenue increases?

I like what IMG is doing, forcing the clubs to get their act together off the field and grow their connections with their communities. Better engage the locals first. We can see in traditionally smaller supported clubs like HKR, Leigh and Wakey the impact that approach is having.

There is no magic answer and there certainly isnt a money tree to 'just grow the game' by adding more clubs from areas with little immediate interest in RL. Working with what we have got and adding to it when the time is right with the correct clubs that can sustain themselves and add to the tv audience is the way to go.

Lets look at the only viable options for expansion of the comp:

Bradford - strong jnr pathway, terrible stadium, potential for good crowds, no rich owner
London - Poor crowds, good stadium, long history in SL of not performing. Would need massive annual investment to make a splash and stay in SL
York - Decent but small stadium, low crowds historically, no rich owner
Toulouse - Decent stadium and crowds, no rich owner, add nothing to UK tv value
Featherstone- Do we need another small town M62 club?

So its not like there is an abundance of riches just waiting to join SL is it? If Bradford could get stadium and investment sorted Id love to see them back in. If London had the serious long term cash investment needed to grow the RL fanbase down there I d love for them to be in.
Toulouse might help the French game so worth a slot if they can pay there way and spend big on jnr development

But the reality is the tv deal is locked in until end of 2026 so there is no more money for more teams. Current clubs wont take more of a haircut to grow to 14 so the Sl is stuck between a rock and hard place for now. Maybe if they can increase the tv deal next time by 10million pounds a year it will give back the existing clubs back the reduced 1/2mill and allow for expansion with 2 more clubs.

The NRL are looking at buying into SL , the obvious path foward is to let them!
Use the money to advance 2 clubs into the competition for 2026 and a modest increase in annual grant and salary cap and have it locked in for at least 10 years.

The 2 new teams, likely London and Toulouse will create a buzz , along with plenty of stories of player contract upgrades and signings adding to the anticipation for the new season, that will see a bump ratings along with an additional game to sell. That gives a motivation for an increase in the next TV deal starting 2027.

 

[RedVee]

An extra game “should” lead to extra £’s in the next TV contract. I’d hope.

 

[Perth Red]

The NRL are looking at buying into SL , the obvious path foward is to let them!
Use the money to advance 2 clubs into the competition for 2026 and a modest increase in annual grant and salary cap and have it locked in for at least 10 years.

The 2 new teams, likely London and Toulouse will create a buzz , along with plenty of stories of player contract upgrades and signings adding to the anticipation for the new season, that will see a bump ratings along with an additional game to sell. That gives a motivation for an increase in the next TV deal starting 2027.

Well sure, if they are and depending what they want in return. But thats a maybe, I thought we were dealing in reality not hypotheticals? For you suggesting you'd be looking at an investment from NRL of around $12mill a year for quite a few years.

Adding London, who have one of the smallest fanbases in UK and Toulouse who add no value to Sky isnt going to grow the next TV deal.

 

[Gobsmacked]

An extra game “should” lead to extra £’s in the next TV contract. I’d hope.

Of course it will be but more importantly, the game needs to be showing a clear growth strategy. A network looks at what it's getting at the time of purchase and what is projected into the future... of course the current deal is worth less than the previous, there's been no strategy for growth.

 

[Perth Red]

An extra game “should” lead to extra £’s in the next TV contract. I’d hope.

This isnt the NRl lol. We've literally only just got every game live on Sky this deal. Before that they only wanted to show 3 games a week.
They currently aren't valuing SL content where they would pay an extra 4million pounds plus a year just for one more game. Especially if its London and Toulouse added that will bring virtually zero subscription growth. If the goal is to increase audience and get more tv money then Bradford and York are the only two clubs with any real population. But then you get moans of it being an M62 game.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Well sure, if they are and depending what they want in return. But thats a maybe, I thought we were dealing in reality not hypotheticals? For you suggesting you'd be looking at an investment from NRL of around $12mill a year for quite a few years.

Adding London, who have one of the smallest fanbases in UK and Toulouse who add no value to Sky isnt going to grow the next TV deal.

Toulouse is essential if there’s ever going to be a chance of securing any French TV money. Perth had the smallest fan base in the ARL before being scrapped, if they were still around today.
London is the biggest city by far in the UK, it doesn't matter if it's not a big fan base, the league can't be taken seriously without it's inclusion. Much like Melbourne.

 

[Gobsmacked]

This isnt the NRl lol. We've literally only just got every game live on Sky this deal. Before that they only wanted to show 3 games a week.
They currently aren't valuing SL content where they would pay an extra 4million pounds plus a year just for one more game. Especially if its London and Toulouse added that will bring virtually zero subscription growth. If the goal is to increase audience and get more tv money then Bradford and York are the only two clubs with any real population. But then you get moans of it being an M62 game.

"This isnt the NRl lol."
Do you want it to be or what?

Funny how important you think it is for the NRL to have Perth to make it a national sport but don't think Super league should have London lol.

 

[Perth Red]

Toulouse is essential if there’s ever going to be a chance of securing any French TV money. Perth had the smallest fan base in the ARL before being scrapped, if they were still around today.
London is the biggest city by far in the UK, it doesn't matter if it's not a big fan base, the league can't be taken seriously without it's inclusion. Much like Melbourne.

Not true, or relevant. Perth never finished bottom of the attendance table 1995-1997

It matters to Sky, they have literally just said they wont pay more until the audiences grow. Putting a team in a city that doesn't achieve that will, well, not achieve the revenue growth needed from Sky.
London has been in SL for 22 years. If it was a game changer they would still be in.
And thats not to say London shouldnt be in, just that there simply isnt the money for them to be in.
St's with a crowd of 11k, owning own stadium which they get revenue from and a decent sponsorship portfolio currently lose 1-2million pounds a year. How much shortfall do you think London with a 5k crowd, paying rent on a stadium and battling soccer in London for sponsors would be? Its a nice thought but totally unrealistic in the current environment.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Not true, or relevant. Perth never finished bottom of the attendance table 1995-1997

It matters to Sky, they have literally just said they wont pay more until the audiences grow. Putting a team in a city that doesn't achieve that will, well, not achieve the revenue growth needed from Sky.
London has been in SL for 22 years. If it was a game changer they would still be in.
And thats not to say London shouldnt be in, just that there simply isnt the money for them to be in.
St's with a crowd of 11k, owning own stadium which they get revenue from and a decent sponsorship portfolio currently lose 1-2million pounds a year. How much shortfall do you think London with a 5k crowd, paying rent on a stadium and battling soccer in London for sponsors would be? Its a nice thought but totally unrealistic in the current environment.

Lol totally unrealistic? They were literally in the comp last year and are securing finance for next year..

 

[Perth Red]

"This isnt the NRl lol."
Do you want it to be or what?

Funny how important you think it is for the NRL to have Perth to make it a national sport but don't think Super league should have London lol.

Im realistic enough to know it will never be. The reality is soccer in Uk sucks up 90% of sports media, money, sponsors, fans etc etc. The rest are battling for the dregs left. That is never going to change.

If London had the same interest in RL as Perth, or Sl had the amount of money NRL has, Id be shouting from the rooftops for their inclusion.

Lets just look at the two seeing as you made such an idiotic comparison shall we:
Perth -Games attracting 20k-45k attendances
London - crowd avg 4-5k

Perth - local consortium willing to put $50million into a club
London -numerous owners all who have failed to make them sustainable

Perth - State Govt willing to spend hundreds of millions to make them sustainable
London- $0 support from any level of Govt

Perth - 4500 registered players
London- under 1000 registered players

Perth stronger despite no top flight club in 27 years, London 22 years in SL and still not close to the interest in RL in Perth.

 

[Perth Red]

Lol totally unrealistic? They were literally in the comp last year and are securing finance for next year..

Fluked there way in with a one off game win and then they finished bottom with a crowd avg of 3,100 and it sent them bust, again. You might have missed how shite compared to other clubs Broncos were in the IMG grading in 2023?

Realistically a new owner is going to have tip in 3million pound + a year for a very long time for them to be any sort of success in SL. Even then Brisbane Broncos have tried it, Richard Branson has tried it, Dave Hughes has tried it. And here we are still.