Marty Taupau defects Kiwis for Samoa

[adamkungl]

Why would you pick cooks over PNG or Fiji? It’s pretty much the Isle of Man in the pacific.

1, all 4 Nations are a good cultural fit, Polynesia. Since most of them grow up in NZ anyway, it's almost Origin-like. It's a nice parallel and it doesn't replicate the Pacific/Oceania Cup that will be played in the post season. It would stay the same each year regardless of who's up and down the rankings. Cook Islands against NZ would draw more passion and crowds than Fiji or PNG.
The post season tournament would have the best nations by ranking.

2, because all member nations deserve games. Cook Islands need to play someone. PNG and Fiji can play each other annually.

 

[adamkungl]

I would rather Pacific cup A and B with winner of B going up and last in A going down. Could even add C and D when enough teams are ready.

This already exists in the post season Oceania Cup

Going forward, international matches and tournaments have to have some kind of meaning. If you have a mid season cup the same as a bi annual post season cup, they both lose significance.

Let the mid season one play for cultural pride and the post season one play for regional supremacy.

 

[Perth Tiger]

This already exists in the post season Oceania Cup

As a one off. Even if they say it might be longer I will wait until I see it before I believe it

My personal preference would be for this to be annual during the origin period. That way you can fold Aus and Eng into end of year tests.

 

[adamkungl]

As a one off. Even if they say it might be longer I will wait until I see it before I believe it

My personal preference would be for this to be annual during the origin period. That way you can fold Aus and Eng into end of year tests.

The RLIF meeting last week confirmed that the regional tournaments will run every 2 years from 2020.

Hopefully this year's fairly limited format is a trial run that will expand in future.

 

[Perth Tiger]

The RLIF meeting last week confirmed that the regional tournaments will run every 2 years from 2020.

Hopefully this year's fairly limited format is a trial run that will expand in future.

As I said, I’ll believe when I see it

 

[Matua]

1, all 4 Nations are a good cultural fit, Polynesia. Since most of them grow up in NZ anyway, it's almost Origin-like. It's a nice parallel and it doesn't replicate the Pacific/Oceania Cup that will be played in the post season. It would stay the same each year regardless of who's up and down the rankings. Cook Islands against NZ would draw more passion and crowds than Fiji or PNG.
The post season tournament would have the best nations by ranking.

2, because all member nations deserve games. Cook Islands need to play someone. PNG and Fiji can play each other annually.

Cook Islands can only put together a decent team if they plunder the Kiwis too. Many of the Cook Island eligible players are NZ Maori as well.

PI Heritage players are free to play for whoever they want but everyone who celebrates players (NZers) defecting from NZ are just celebrating Oz opening up an even bigger gap on the rest of the world and England opening up a gap on NZ.

Without doubt, but it’s chicken and egg. The only time that league has got traction here has been when the kiwis and warriors have been been strong.... and with our pacific players switching I don’t think we’ll be knocking off anyone any time soon.

This has the potential to set league back in NZ by a generation.

I'm a decent league fan but also a rugby fan, a shit NZ team plundered by the PIs and the absolute bullshit that is the Warriors organisation means that although I'll never loose my interest in league I likely wont be as active a fan going forward (I don't watch origin and find myself watching less and less non Warriors NRL games.

 

[deluded pom?]

No they haven’t players have been doing it. When Fifita dropped Tonga for the kangaroos at the last minute it was disrespectful as well.
None of these teams have the power to pull players from anywhere, it’s all the players.
There’s absolutely no need for players to be doing this when the teams have been named. It not like Tapau was a surprise inclusion for the kiwis.

Do the coaches actually contact the players to see if they are up for being selected and if they are fit enough to play? Or do they simply pick the squad and the players hear about it the same way the fans do?

 

[Pommy]

Do the coaches actually contact the players to see if they are up for being selected and if they are fit enough to play? Or do they simply pick the squad and the players hear about it the same way the fans do?

No idea but Tapau knew he was going to be picked he’s wasn’t a fringe Kiwis player.
It’s like Sam Burgess, James Graham and Gareth Widdop know if they’re fit they will be picked for England.

 

[hutch]

Disrespectful? Kiwis and kangaroos have been pulling players out of the island nations teams last minute for years... For example Fifita when he got picked for Tonga a few years ago and kangaroos had injury and they had to let the Tongan team know they want Fifita back... When the shoes on the other foot it's disrespectful?

That was Anthony tupou but the point is a good one.

 

[RedVee]

So what helps NZ ?

The old talk of a NZ Origin seems to have dissolved since the rise of the Pacific teams. Not least because no one could agree a format. Last I heard was Auckland v ‘the rest.

Is playing Tonga & Samoa the best way to a strong NZ team? Do the ‘NZ only’ & ‘NZ first’ players develop better this way?

 

[Walter sobchak]

So what helps NZ ?

The old talk of a NZ Origin seems to have dissolved since the rise of the Pacific teams. Not least because no one could agree a format. Last I heard was Auckland v ‘the rest.

Is playing Tonga & Samoa the best way to a strong NZ team? Do the ‘NZ only’ & ‘NZ first’ players develop better this way?

The only thing that helps NZRL out that I can see is a 2nd NZ NRL franchise in either wellington or Christchurch and more NRL clubs raiding the junior NZ rugby union stocks.

 

[magpie_man]

NZ will be fine; their team is still stacked and Australia is looking the most vulnerable since I can remember with the representative retirement of the likes of Cam Smith, Thurston, Slater, Inglis, Cronk etc.
Let's not forget that Australia have lost some potentials to the Islands as well in Pangai Jnr and Fifita, there will be more to come too.

 

[Springs09]

NZ will be fine; their team is still stacked and Australia is looking the most vulnerable since I can remember with the representative retirement of the likes of Cam Smith, Thurston, Slater, Inglis, Cronk etc.
Let's not forget that Australia have lost some potentials to the Islands as well in Pangai Jnr and Fifita, there will be more to come too.

Don’t be silly, even though 9 of Tonga’s squad were born in Australia Tonga is clearly NZ’s B team!!

 

[adamkungl]

I don't mind the idea of a an Auckland v the rest Origin-style.
One really good thing about it is it gives the NZRL a new property to sell that isn't dependant on any other nation.

Finding calendar time for it and getting the NRL cubs to release players would be big, probably impossible hurdles though.

 

[Matua]

NZ will be fine; their team is still stacked and Australia is looking the most vulnerable since I can remember with the representative retirement of the likes of Cam Smith, Thurston, Slater, Inglis, Cronk etc.
Let's not forget that Australia have lost some potentials to the Islands as well in Pangai Jnr and Fifita, there will be more to come too.

This isn't true, we don't have near the depth of Australia and as 2017 showed our team can be derailed with poor coaching and losing just three players (well really just one in Taumalolo). Australia can absorb loses and it will barely affect their team strength. Lose a few players and the Kiwis are fudged.

In saying that Taupau is actually a guy we can cover for ok.

We're at the point where players have declare allegiance to one team or another for a set timeframe IMHO.

Lets say the Kiwis are touring up north, what incentive is their for the Kiwis coach to select a NZer of PI heritage when he's unsure if he'll be available for selection in a years time? This swapping and changing is not good for the game. Yes, it's good to have strong PI sides but as I mentioned not if it's just at the expense of other areas of the game (the NZ section of this forum barely has a discussion on this upcoming test). Maybe have three year declarations and at the end of the three years a declaration has to be re-stated. This will remove chopping and changing on the eve of a test.

 

[shinobi]

Said this a couple years back when they first announced the new eligibility rules that it is only going to go against NZ. As long as Australia has the Origin carrot they will still be bale to convince players to commit to Australia. If Origin was taken out of the equation then you would see a lot more islanders declaring for island nations. NZ might even get Kalyn Ponga, he already played for the Maori team and expressed interest in playing for the All Blacks.

 

[Springs09]

I don't mind the idea of a an Auckland v the rest Origin-style.
One really good thing about it is it gives the NZRL a new property to sell that isn't dependant on any other nation.

Finding calendar time for it and getting the NRL cubs to release players would be big, probably impossible hurdles though.

How many players would be up for playing in a 'The Rest' team though?
Not to mention how many clubs would release their players for it.

 

[RedVee]

How many players would be up for playing in a 'The Rest' team though?
Not to mention how many clubs would release their players for it.

I think the idea was for during the Origin period - if there were more rep windows.
It’d have to be a part of a whole review of rep/NRL calendar

 

[Pommy]

Theres no need to invent origin elsewhere in the world when we have these international teams.
If the same amount of work is put in to internationals as this NZ origin would require they would be successful long term.
Build the international sport don’t undermine it further.

 

[adamkungl]

Theres no need to invent origin elsewhere in the world when we have these international teams.
If the same amount of work is put in to internationals as this NZ origin would require they would be successful long term.
Build the international sport don’t undermine it further.

In an ideal world NZ would be able to hold such a game before its test season and it would be a profitable exercises for them on and off the field and international bodies would hold serious sway and cash so clubs would suck it up. It would impact the club calendar rather than the test calendar.

But you're right, as things stands it could only be held in a standalone week and any such weeks should be used for international test football.


A more realistic alternative idea:

During the finals in September, there are only a handful of NRL teams in play.
So there are spare days on the calendar and a lot of spare players.
Australia runs the PM XIII program in PNG and this year Fiji.

Why doesn't the NZRL try something similar as a lead-in to its post season rep program.
They could play a possibles v probables game in NZ,
They could use an NZ-A or Maori side to visit Cook Islands, Samoa, Tonga.
Or some combination of these ideas.

The NRL clubs wouldn't kick up much fuss, it doesn't clash with real internationals, it keeps their players firing and fighting for positions before the test season.
NZRL needs to think outside the box to get some cash in its pocket and the fans onside.