Match Discussion: R13 vs Parramatta @ McDonald Jones - Old Boys Day

[perverse]

I thought Watson did some good things from 9 late in the game. Is it time to experiment with that for a bit? Brailey can go 80 no doubt, but Watson is a good change of pace and will run from dummy half.

Watson will do good things regardless of where you put him. One of the few that has grown as a player this year.

 

[aqua_duck]

On the plus side, Mann playing in the halves while we’re down on troops just makes it clearer to O’Brien that he should be nowhere near the positions when we get troops back.

Yeah but Mann is managed by Isaac Moses...

 

[Yosh]

Today reminded me of the wooden spoon days. Bunch of lads trying but just not up there quality wise. Mann had a shocker but a lot of the other blokes did what was expected of them, reserve grade standard.

That said:

King, Brodie and Watson all had good games I thought. Sounds a bit weird saying it but I like King. I hope he sticks around for many years as our reserve middle forward.

Fitzy had a great chance today to show up and prove he deserves a good contract but as expected did nothing. Hope we don't resign him. I want to see Brodie start on the left.

Barnett tried to spark something but was real rocks and diamonds.

Clifford was a breath of fresh air. Big kicks, actually knows how to pass and did some trick plays and followed up well on his kicks. Excited to see how he fits into our full strength team.

I think Hoy might be the least talented person I have seen play first grade. Others have out in more horrendous performances but it was not due to a lack of natural talent. Hoy tries to step his opponents and does this head shake thing bit literally goes nowhere. No real acceleration, no pace, no trickery, no athleticism... I hope we don't see much more from him in the future.

I'm torn on Tuala. He is a terrible centre. But if we keep him for depth and mainly plays wing, I might be okay with it. If it was up to me, I'd keep Tuala over Mann to be our depth winger/centre because he would be on less than Mann.

At least we got on the board today. I wish we showed a bit more desire on defense but more importantly we need our troops back.

 

[Jono078]

Just on Clifford too Yosh, I loved the variety he offered. Not everything worked, but as you said, it's a breath of fresh air and something we have lacked for too long. I hope he becomes the dominant kicker in attacking zones.

 

[mozza91]

How did Fitz go? I was watching the game on and off while doing other things, but one thing that stood out was that he seemed to be hitting pretty hard in defense. Might have just been an optical illusion with the long hair though.

He was ok. Had a few good runs and put on a couple of shots. Low work rate though which is what he does best.

 

[Haffa]

Watson will do good things regardless of where you put him. One of the few that has grown as a player this year.

Moving him around means he is not tied to AOBs attacking shackles.

 

[GidleyTwinz]

I know some are sick of hearing about injuries, and think mentioning it is just an excuse. Maybe that's right and maybe that's wrong.

But what proportion of our 30 man salary cap was unavailable today?

The 2021 cap is 9m. Pearce and Ponga are on about 2m between them this year, Klemmer and Frizell are on about 800k each, I'm not sure about Hunt, Lee and Saifiti, but would expect them to add up to around 1.5m.

So with those 7 guys gone, I'd guess were missing around 55% of our cap. Please correct me if those numbers are off, but the reality is it's just really difficult to compete with a top 4 team when you're that severely hamstrung.

 

[Yosh]

I know some are sick of hearing about injuries, and think mentioning it is just an excuse. Maybe that's right and maybe that's wrong.

But what proportion of our 30 man salary cap was unavailable today?

The 2021 cap is 9m. Pearce and Ponga are on about 2m between them this year, Klemmer and Frizell are on about 800k each, I'm not sure about Hunt, Lee and Saifiti, but would expect them to add up to around 1.5m.

So with those 7 guys gone, I'd guess were missing around 55% of our cap. Please correct me if those numbers are off, but the reality is it's just really difficult to compete with a top 4 team when you're that severely hamstrung.

I would assume Lee came for pretty good money and Saifiti would be on close to rep money as well. Crossland also couldn't make it today. I'd put that closer to $2m. Add to that we also have Hodgson and Young (our next crop of high potential outside backs) just coming back from injuries and couldn't play today as well. I'd say we have over 60% of the cap not playing today.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

The injuries have absolutely murdered us this year. Ponga and Pearce are the two biggest ones because we’ve had to put up with Hoy and Mann trying to run the show for a long period of time. But also our outside backs are putrid. Tuala has fallen down a hole after looking pretty consistent for most of last year, while Toa and Musgrove are both out of their depth at this stage.

Best has looked rubbish for most of this season but I can’t really blame him. He can’t be gaining any confidence from just standing out there on the left end never getting a chance to do anything with the ball.

Fitzgibbon is just a total waste of space, he offers absolutely nothing. Doesn’t run hard, doesn’t tackle hard, doesn’t offload, doesn’t have a step, doesn’t have a fend, doesn’t even have a good haircut.

I think it’s pretty clear they’re having a go but they’re just not up to it. We’ve been a patched up team for most of this season so far and there’s been no way for combinations to develop. Our fundamentals are terrible which is probably the most inexcusable part of it though, we made a bunch of errors in the PTB today which is just not up to standard.

I really find it hard to blame AOB for all of these problems. Let’s not forget he’s still a young coach who is learning on the job and he doesn’t have the luxury of depth that some clubs have. I’m sure he’s working on his own coaching as much as the players are working on their play.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

We do have a fair injury toll but my issue is I have zero confidence that we don't get beaten even with the likes of Pearce, Ponga etc back in. Our edge defence is just so putrid

 

[Yosh]

We do have a fair injury toll but my issue is I have zero confidence that we don't get beaten even with the likes of Pearce, Ponga etc back in. Our edge defence is just so putrid

If we had Hunt and Lee on the edges, I have no doubt our edge defense improves. Something like:

1. Ponga
2. To'a/Hunt
3. Hunt/To'a
4. Best
5. Lee

That is a ton better than what we've had all season.

 

[hindy111]

The worry was Parra played average. Ref calling a forward pass wrongly along with 3 bombed tries and Moses goal kicking stopped the score being 60+
Yes players are missing but you have signed to many big names. It never works. Frizell is old and injury prone. Ponga is sublime but always breaking down. Pearce is still the best half at the club.
At full strength you'd make the finals but this year's a write off just about. Unsure what will happen next season. Maybe time for a rebuild.

 

[perverse]

The worry was Parra played average. Ref calling a forward pass wrongly along with 3 bombed tries and Moses goal kicking stopped the score being 60+
Yes players are missing but you have signed to many big names. It never works. Frizell is old and injury prone. Ponga is sublime but always breaking down. Pearce is still the best half at the club.
At full strength you'd make the finals but this year's a write off just about. Unsure what will happen next season. Maybe time for a rebuild.

It's definitely time to shakeup the roster. The club doesn't seem to want to admit that the current plan didn't quite play out as anticipated. There's a lot of dead weight in the roster. Fortunately some of them we are in the process of doing something about - such as Pearce who is a year by year prospect at a discount (and with a succession plan seemingly in place) - but others the club seems completely blind to. If rumours are to be believed, we've offered Kurt Mann a 2 year extension. Figure that one out.

I think the biggest problem as well is that our junior system just isn't producing many first graders. It's all well and good to say we're buying too many big names - but if we didn't, we'd be running about with a QLD Cup quality team + Kalyn Ponga and Connor Watson. The club finds itself in this awkward place right now where if we don't put a team around Kalyn, no-one would blame him for f**king off for greener pastures either. That may be the inevitable case anyway, to be honest. If that plays out, it'll be a huge kick in the guts to a fanbase that has received nothing but for about 15 years.

 

[slotmachine]

think the biggest problem as well is that our junior system just isn't producing many first graders.

There's "first graders" and actual long term quality first graders.

Using the latter definition we've had only the safitis and fitz in the last ten years.

 

[Knight Tales]

It's definitely time to shakeup the roster. The club doesn't seem to want to admit that the current plan didn't quite play out as anticipated. There's a lot of dead weight in the roster. Fortunately some of them we are in the process of doing something about - such as Pearce who is a year by year prospect at a discount (and with a succession plan seemingly in place) - but others the club seems completely blind to. If rumours are to be believed, we've offered Kurt Mann a 2 year extension. Figure that one out.

I think the biggest problem as well is that our junior system just isn't producing many first graders. It's all well and good to say we're buying too many big names - but if we didn't, we'd be running about with a QLD Cup quality team + Kalyn Ponga and Connor Watson. The club finds itself in this awkward place right now where if we don't put a team around Kalyn, no-one would blame him for f**king off for greener pastures either. That may be the inevitable case anyway, to be honest. If that plays out, it'll be a huge kick in the guts to a fanbase that has received nothing but for about 15 years.

The only way you shake up a roster is by selling your most valuable Commodities . If it means Klemmer, KP, and Pearce are up for sale then that is what we do. We blow it up and go for quality depth.
It is not working. This a flogging a dead horse.
look at the Tigers. Dane Laurie is killing it. Pushed out at Penrith. If he was here he would be a club icon. He never quits. Has no fear. Adam Doueihi is another case in point. Fine player and comfortable in a system with players willing to improve. They are the types we should be targeting and could realistically bring here.

Titans have bought big and look and play like shit. They bought the two best young forwards in Qld in Tino and Fifita. Their defence is shocking. same issues we have. Not as bad but close.

 

[perverse]

There's "first graders" and actual long term quality first graders.

Using the latter definition we've had only the safitis and fitz in the last ten years.

And Fitz is a stretch.

 

[perverse]

The only way you shake up a roster is by selling your most valuable Commodities . If it means Klemmer, KP, and Pearce are up for sale then that is what we do. We blow it up and go for quality depth.
It is not working. This a flogging a dead horse.

Yeah sure, perhaps that is the way forward, I don't know. I don't see the point in getting rid of KP, and there's probably a couple of others I would hold onto at this point, but for the most part I think putting the for sale sign out for the majoriy of the roster isn't exactly a bad idea.

As I said though, a year or two more of this shit and I don't think we'll need to put KP on sale, he'll leave on his own accord - and who would really blame him? I'd feel good for him, as much as it would piss me off at the same time.

 

[The Axe of Druss]

Frizell old and injury prone?

Hes averaged 23 games a year over the last 8 seasons and is only 29

 

[Jono078]

Frizell old and injury prone?

Hes averaged 23 games a year over the last 8 seasons and is only 29

To be fair, most Knights are injury prone - so he's not wrong in that sense.

 

[Knight Tales]

We need Richard Swain’s DNA
In our players. He never missed a game at the Storm. Played in all 125 games in the then history of the club before he was not re-signed.