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Match Discussion: Round 19 vs Wests Tigers @ McDonald Jones Stadium

Who will win? Round 19: Knights v Wests Tigers

  • Newcastle Knights 1-12

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Draw after Golden Point

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wests Tigers 1-12

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wests Tigers 13+

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1
  • Poll closed .

K-Man

Bench
Messages
3,171
Reputations go on the line tonight - for the players, but particularly for the coach. It's all well and good to have a nice winning streak through the middle of the season, but if you bookend it with two long losing streaks (and some truly awful football) you don't deserve to make the top eight and you do deserve criticism when the squad is as good as ours on paper. We are a better team than most of the teams we have lost to this season, and in my mind that is not a great reflection on Brown's coaching. That's coming from a fan who likes him and wants him to achieve success. I'm not a Brown hater at all, but I do find myself questioning his ability to get his team up for a game (or more precisely a second half) more often than I would like.

I also feel strongly that there has been way too much talk and self hype coming out of the Knights this year. It started in pre-season, it happened after one scrappy/lucky win over the Sharks in Round 1 when Brown brought Gallen into the conversation for no reason before we lost 5 in a row, it ramped up massively when we started winning ("we have the best forward pack in the comp right now") and it's happening again as we try to talk ourselves out of a huge form slump. I'm actually quite sick of all the talk. Just a bunch of meaningless words and it's on again this week with the line about doing it for Hughesy.

Stop telling everyone what you're going to do and how good we can be, and instead get out there and show it on the field. Dig in and show some real desperation and determination, especially in the second half when we've been borderline pathetic for 3 weeks. The loss to the Bulldogs was a disgusting performance, and we followed it up by getting thrashed. Brown has stuck with the same team so we need to show Origin-like intensity and attention to detail right from the first whistle and all the way through the game, not in small patches. Anything less should not be tolerated. Another loss at home and our season is surely over.

I guess I got my answer. Sorry Nathan, but it’s really just not good enough anymore.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
this game aside. Our main issue is a 5/8. A 2IC to take the game on when Pearce isnt up to it.

Pearce again had an off night. 1 grubber out of 14 kicks. Thats 1 attempt at a repeat set to build pressure. He was also down on his kick mtrs .He also had 9 tackles - yep - 9 tackles in 80 minutes of footy.

The fella is entitled to have an off night but in a good roster there is an equally adept 5/8 to bare the load. A second play maker, distributor and kicker calling a play.

5/8 is a MAJOR issue for us - now and moving forward to next season and beyond.

This game was not lost in our engine room nor our outside backs. It was lost in our game management.
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,635
this game aside. Our main issue is a 5/8. A 2IC to take the game on when Pearce isnt up to it.

Pearce again had an off night. 1 grubber out of 14 kicks. Thats 1 attempt at a repeat set to build pressure. He was also down on his kick mtrs .He also had 9 tackles - yep - 9 tackles in 80 minutes of footy.

The fella is entitled to have an off night but in a good roster there is an equally adept 5/8 to bare the load. A second play maker, distributor and kicker calling a play.

5/8 is a MAJOR issue for us - now and moving forward to next season and beyond.

This game was not lost in our engine room nor our outside backs. It was lost in our game management.
I think that 5-6 game stretch where Pearce could do no wrong probably masked a lot of our issues in that regard and it also allowed opposition teams to game plan on us. I really have to question Brown's coaching on various fronts, firstly opposition teams are just focusing on Pearce now and have been for a few weeks yet Brown hasn't tried to make any tactical adjustment at all, secondly roosters tore our right side to shreds last week, Tigers just copied the game plan and got the same results, surely Brown should've expected this and made any necessary adjustments and thirdly the interchange rotation is bizarre, we have a starting hooker who plays 30 mins and doesn't make it back on the field, we wasted 2 interchanges to give Buhrer 12 mins of game time, none of it makes sense to me
 

Loose Cannon

Bench
Messages
4,058
this game aside. Our main issue is a 5/8. A 2IC to take the game on when Pearce isnt up to it.

Pearce again had an off night. 1 grubber out of 14 kicks. Thats 1 attempt at a repeat set to build pressure. He was also down on his kick mtrs .He also had 9 tackles - yep - 9 tackles in 80 minutes of footy.

The fella is entitled to have an off night but in a good roster there is an equally adept 5/8 to bare the load. A second play maker, distributor and kicker calling a play.

5/8 is a MAJOR issue for us - now and moving forward to next season and beyond.

This game was not lost in our engine room nor our outside backs. It was lost in our game management.
Agree wholeheartedly.

But it doesn’t excuse Pearce’s ineptitude weeks on end. He was disgraceful tonight. He is currently in the Ash Taylor value for money equation. Big call, I know.

Like I have said previously, Lino has flaws, but he is the best 6 we have available. I only saw the last 20 of reserves last week, but he closed it out perfectly when they hit the front,

Kurt Mann offers nothing more than Jamie Buhrer does at 6. And Buhrer would be a vast improvement defensively.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
26,697
To be honest, in a game where we scored plenty enough points to win it... I'd have to say the multiple tries that Mann and Ese'ese let in were more costly than anything else. Gavet also on that list as far as letting a geriatric Benji step his way through to the line. At some point you need to point a finger at the blokes missing the tackles. My thoughts on the tries that we conceded:

- The first Thompson try - Mann gets a complete bath from an angle running Garner (who gave us nightmares on that side all night, I might add). Mann didn't make enough contact to see him even break his stride. The guy ran a good line, but the read was poor and the effort poorer.
- Watching the Brooks linebreak again... Mann and Barnett have absolutely no idea what the other is doing. Mann is actually standing in front of Barney at one moment, seemingly completely unaware that Barney is sliding inside him and has the inside play covered. Mann proceeds to get an absolute bath from Brooks.
- The Benji try is just pathetic. Both Ese'ese and Gavet get caught just watching Benji and have their feet totally planted. The contact on him is embarrassing from the both of them. Benji isn't the biggest guy, but he rag dolls 2 of our middle forwards to the line. He wanted the try more than they wanted to stop him.
- The Farah try... I mean what do you even say? Terrible contact from Watson and Ese'ese, didn't hold onto him after contact. Watson caught not getting his body in position on that one too. Again, Robbie just wanted it more. The effort wasn't there.
- The Momirovski try... guess who it is rushing up out of the line and whiffing? Mann again. This one I can almost forgive to be honest... they had the numbers and moved the ball well - which I'm guessing is what prompted him to rush up and leave the outside guys screwed. At least it wasn't conceded through shit effort.

In that 5-6 game streak where Pearce was on fire - we had every person on the field aiming up in D... and if someone comes in here and tries to tell me that it was Wolfe that turned our defense from insipid to resilient between rounds 6 and 7... I dead set give up? It was an attitude thing on the back of an inspirational captain leading the charge. The moment we lost his form, the attitude dropped away and we're leaking points like a sieve again. We don't concede most of those tries I've mentioned above during that streak for the sheer fact that we were hitting and sticking hard and with real intent on every play.

I don't expect to see Ese'ese in the team next week. Gavet hopefully also gets the chop, he's added nothing that Jaifiti can't offer, but seems to have a shit attitude and is a loose cannon that we can't afford. Mann should definitely find himself in reserve grade too, because his defense has been deplorable. I would have had Lino in there for a couple of months already. He offers far more than Watson or Mann in the halves... and Mann's defense seems hard to ignore for me at this stage. To be at least somewhat fair to Mann, I do think he's having a dig... he's just shit at reading the D and has no awareness of what his inside and outside men are doing. I can't defend Ese'ese at all, and Gavet has had me sick of him for ages now.

Bring in Lino, Guerra and Jaifiti for those blokes, put the rest on notice, and at least MAYBE we'll have a team ready to dig in again. The rest of the season is not an easy road... they need to figure out how to play for each other again and hopefully not embarrass us and themselves for the rest of the regular season.

Whew... that was a lot longer than i anticipated. Been a while.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
To be honest, in a game where we scored plenty enough points to win it... I'd have to say the multiple tries that Mann and Ese'ese let in were more costly than anything else. Gavet also on that list as far as letting a geriatric Benji step his way through to the line. At some point you need to point a finger at the blokes missing the tackles. My thoughts on the tries that we conceded:

- The first Thompson try - Mann gets a complete bath from an angle running Garner (who gave us nightmares on that side all night, I might add). Mann didn't make enough contact to see him even break his stride. The guy ran a good line, but the read was poor and the effort poorer.
- Watching the Brooks linebreak again... Mann and Barnett have absolutely no idea what the other is doing. Mann is actually standing in front of Barney at one moment, seemingly completely unaware that Barney is sliding inside him and has the inside play covered. Mann proceeds to get an absolute bath from Brooks.
- The Benji try is just pathetic. Both Ese'ese and Gavet get caught just watching Benji and have their feet totally planted. The contact on him is embarrassing from the both of them. Benji isn't the biggest guy, but he rag dolls 2 of our middle forwards to the line. He wanted the try more than they wanted to stop him.
- The Farah try... I mean what do you even say? Terrible contact from Watson and Ese'ese, didn't hold onto him after contact. Watson caught not getting his body in position on that one too. Again, Robbie just wanted it more. The effort wasn't there.
- The Momirovski try... guess who it is rushing up out of the line and whiffing? Mann again. This one I can almost forgive to be honest... they had the numbers and moved the ball well - which I'm guessing is what prompted him to rush up and leave the outside guys screwed. At least it wasn't conceded through shit effort.

In that 5-6 game streak where Pearce was on fire - we had every person on the field aiming up in D... and if someone comes in here and tries to tell me that it was Wolfe that turned our defense from insipid to resilient between rounds 6 and 7... I dead set give up? It was an attitude thing on the back of an inspirational captain leading the charge. The moment we lost his form, the attitude dropped away and we're leaking points like a sieve again. We don't concede most of those tries I've mentioned above during that streak for the sheer fact that we were hitting and sticking hard and with real intent on every play.

I don't expect to see Ese'ese in the team next week. Gavet hopefully also gets the chop, he's added nothing that Jaifiti can't offer, but seems to have a shit attitude and is a loose cannon that we can't afford. Mann should definitely find himself in reserve grade too, because his defense has been deplorable. I would have had Lino in there for a couple of months already. He offers far more than Watson or Mann in the halves... and Mann's defense seems hard to ignore for me at this stage. To be at least somewhat fair to Mann, I do think he's having a dig... he's just shit at reading the D and has no awareness of what his inside and outside men are doing. I can't defend Ese'ese at all, and Gavet has had me sick of him for ages now.

Bring in Lino, Guerra and Jaifiti for those blokes, put the rest on notice, and at least MAYBE we'll have a team ready to dig in again. The rest of the season is not an easy road... they need to figure out how to play for each other again and hopefully not embarrass us and themselves for the rest of the regular season.

Whew... that was a lot longer than i anticipated. Been a while.
Hard to argue with that, pretty much sums it up.

I'm not impressed with Gavet as a player at all.
Lino would at least add another kicking option and I think Mann is playing with a recurrence of his sternum injury
Pearce has lost the drive and hunger and is back to his start of season form.
In general the team looks tired and not hungry enough. They just dont want finals footy. Judging by the last few games we are shot. The season is over.
 
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Seage

Juniors
Messages
1,084
And yet, in spite of Gavet, Mann, Ramien (in some parts), and Ese Ese being horrific, if Tim Glasby doesnt f**k up that simple try, we win the game.

We bombed a try and missed two goals. Unforgivable.

A team that loses to the Titans, Warriors, Bulldogs, and Tigers shouldnt just miss the finals, they should be shot.

So angry about it.
 

Old dog

Bench
Messages
2,658
Yes that missing try by Glasby was a game changer but it was a big effort in defence to cause it. Glasby overall was ok.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,276
I disagree. It's fairer on the team fouled to have an opposition player binned rather than have another team next week gain an advantage from their loss.
 

newyboy

Juniors
Messages
288
2 weeks ago Pearce was the best (second) halfback in NSW apparently. If that's correct, not only is Newcastle in trouble, NSW are buggered.

A bit like Parramatta has taken 30 (and more to come) years to get over (Kenny, Sterling, Cronin, Price etc), it will take Newcastle that long to get over Johns.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
2 weeks ago Pearce was the best (second) halfback in NSW apparently. If that's correct, not only is Newcastle in trouble, NSW are buggered.

A bit like Parramatta has taken 30 (and more to come) years to get over (Kenny, Sterling, Cronin, Price etc), it will take Newcastle that long to get over Johns.
Our trouble is Pearce is our ONLY playmaker.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,902
2 weeks ago Pearce was the best (second) halfback in NSW apparently. If that's correct, not only is Newcastle in trouble, NSW are buggered.

A bit like Parramatta has taken 30 (and more to come) years to get over (Kenny, Sterling, Cronin, Price etc), it will take Newcastle that long to get over Johns.

NSW haven't had a halfback since the end of the 2005 series.

I reckon Cleary will do fine for NSW.

As for Newcaatle, the powers that be recruited Connor Watson as a running 5/8 so we now deal with what we've created.
 
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Knight76

Juniors
Messages
2,045
The powers that be recruited Watson to be the running 5/8 and rely on Pearce and Ponga as our playmakers. Brown would have had a big say in the recruitment and where we were heading with the style of play he was looking for.

Then late pre-season we get told Ponga is going to be 5/8 and so much for the original plan. Apparently now we need two play making halves. Ponga after a few weeks isn't working there so it's time to flick him back to FB and hey presto, back with the original plan of a running 5/8 again.

The idea was Ponga and Pearce to be our playmakers, and Watson can do the damage with his running. But, what eventuates is Ponga and Pearce predominantly hug the left side with very little ball targeted to properly attacking the right. The right sees the ball when we are caught on the left at the end of a set and try a cross field kick, or if the ball somehow wanders over there somehow, often when a left side movement breaks down and the ball gets sent that way.

The decision then, is that Watson isn't working there, got injured, and we change the plan up again with Mann and Lino both getting alternate shots at the 5/8 spot with neither really nailing the position. Our right side is still shite in attack and our lovely SOO bound right centre which no doubt was recruited on the promise of running off ponga and pearce is getting jack of it. Whoops he's outta here!

Not to mention the endless hooker rotation. Hopefully Brailey can finally be the hooker Brown is looking for.

The problem all along has been Brown's training wheels coaching, swapping our spine around willy nilly all season, learning to coach NRL on the run, and switching our structure around at least 3 times. How a team can build consistency in that environment is beyond me.

What we need, is stability, especially in the spine, and a decent 5/8. Effective bench rotation couldn't hurt either.
 

Knight Vision

First Grade
Messages
5,066
The problem all along has been Brown's training wheels coaching, swapping our spine around willy nilly all season, learning to coach NRL on the run, and switching our structure around at least 3 times. How a team can build consistency in that environment is beyond me.

What we need, is stability, especially in the spine, and a decent 5/8.
This. Constant unnecessary positional changes all season.

Ponga goes down and rather than simply selecting Tex Hoy to replace him we move Watson from 5/8 to FB , move Mann from bench utility to 5/8, Buhrer to bench for hooking duties, next game everyone is selected in totally different positions yet again. etc etc etc all season long. No chance any team can get some traction playing the whole season in this fashion. They have also been changing position mid game FFS.

How must other players in the squad feel ? Players like Hoy, Crossland and Musgrove. If theyre in the squad play them or piss them off because theyre arent good enough..
 

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