Match Discussion: Round 7 vs Penrith @ BlueBet Stadium

[perverse]

Can't compete, ie win more games than you lose, qualify for and win semis, without decent halves. Can't pay halves who lack game awareness, decent footy IQ, top notch long and short kicking game and the ability to attack when the side is on the back foot.

Still lacking quality in the backrow. Money must be spent upgrading Barnett's starting position.

Yet we made the finals last year, and underperformed in doing it. The competition is no stronger this year than last.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

Didn't know where else to post this.... But the latest Toohey's news savages knights attitude around giving pats on the back for gritty defense when the loose by 18 points and doing one out foward runs for 4 tackles followed by a below average 5th tackle kick.

No one mentions that panther had good/gritty defence because it's the norm for them. We have a long long way to go

It’s the predictable/boring attack that annoys me the most. Good defensive teams just trap us in our own half and we have no way of getting out or actually threatening them or getting good field position. The one try we scored was from Mann taking advantage of one of the few defensive lapses from Penrith in the whole game. But as was proven later on in the game Penrith just tightened their defence up in the second half and we had no answer.

I genuinely think our forwards need to be coached to throw some short passes around the ruck to each other, create some uncertainty in the defence and force teams to compress more which then opens up more space on the outside. Ponga and Watson would run riot.

I would love to be a fly on the wall at Newcastle during their team meetings to know what they actually talk about. I really hope this area gets identified after this game.

 

[PhilGould]

We have a good collection of individual forwards but they don't play together as a pack. Penrith's domination begins with their forwards line speed dictating where the opposition finishes their sets, and then in attack they feed off each others runs while also moving the ball around rather than taking one out hit-ups every time. Ours do neither of those things. As I've said before, the team plays like they've already proven how great they are and opposition will just roll over when they see who they're up against.

Klemmer still gets his numbers but is a shell of the player he once was. Teams are generally happy for him to carry defenders an extra 5 metres in reverse because it gives them plenty of time to get their line set.

DSaf is great when he wants to be but goes into passive mode too often for a Blues prop and club captain.

Barnett seems the most likely to spark something but also just as likely to make a bad read or error.

Watson is the only middle forward who offers a point of difference and some still want him to be moved.

I don't think there's a quick fix for this season. There's enough talent to still make the 8 but as it stands we'd just be making up the numbers again. The team desperately needs leaders who will lead from the front.

 

[perverse]

Klemmer still gets his numbers but is a shell of the player he once was. Teams are generally happy for him to carry defenders an extra 5 metres in reverse because it gives them plenty of time to get their line set.

I got shitcanned last year for mentioning this, but I agree. Nothing has changed since then. He's not the big angry wrecking ball that he once was. Still a great workhorse, and I attribute the rise of DSaf to his influence - so it's not all doom and gloom on Klem - but I would take less work for more fire in the belly.

I still wonder what influence the town and laid back environment has on players that come to Newcastle. I've thrown it up often over the years... but I don't think being in a fishbowl where you're largely protected and worshipped regardless of on-field results has a positive effect on us mentally. There's nothing for them to prove. You win one game, everyone claps, and then they invariably come out the next week like their shit doesn't stink. It's the same story year after year, coach after coach, squad after squad.

The only time we were a truly great team - we had a top tier elite group of locals with a bit of a chip on their shoulder and nothing but pride for the town - punctuated by some key imports that also bought into the same mindset. I'm not saying this in particular has to be the blueprint - but it's clear that we don't have a driving force that begets excellence, and we haven't since the 8th retired.

We lack motivation and desperation to succeed - beyond anything roster or coaching related. I don't know how you manufacture hunger or belief. Seeing Brodie Jones in the Sharks game put in that performance really reminded me of what we're missing. Mann had it against the Panthers, too... but you need it from 17 players every week, not 4 or 5 every other week.

 

[PhilGould]

8. Klemmer
9. Brailey
10. D. Saifiti
11. Frizell
12. Fitzgibbon / Jones
13. Barnett

14. Watson
15. J. Saifiti
16. Sue
17. Jones / Fitzgibbon

Our best pack at full strength IMO. Let Barnett get his hands dirty and lead the line speed for the first 25 minutes.

 

[perverse]

8. Klemmer
9. Brailey
10. D. Saifiti
11. Frizell
12. Fitzgibbon / Jones
13. Barnett

14. Watson
15. J. Saifiti
16. Sue
17. Jones / Fitzgibbon

Our best pack at full strength IMO. Let Barnett get his hands dirty and lead the line speed for the first 25 minutes.

As good as Watson has been in the 13, I'm starting to wonder if it's not best for the balance of the team too. He's lost some spark with the ball in hand as the season has rolled on, and as you said - Barney is more of an asset in the middle than the edge. I like Barneys hole running, but he can make some bad decisions in D out wide too.

Not a slight on Watson, more just a concern over what's best for the team overall. I do want to see more of Jones on the field. Will be interesting to see what the coach does with Fitz due back soon.

 

[slotmachine]

If this team rocks up and competes with the right mindset every single week, we make the finals - and probably reasonably comfortably. That should be the expectation - the minimum to be honest.

There's being involved in the finals just to make up the numbers, and then there's actually being a chance to win the comp.

We are the former with the current squad, but there isn't eight better teams out there so you're right that there are no excuses.

As for the attitude, I look at the team and don't see players that hate to lose like Joey and BK did.

 

[perverse]

There's being involved in the finals just to make up the numbers, and then there's actually being a chance to win the comp.

We are the former with the current squad, but there isn't eight better teams out there so you're right that there are no excuses.

I didn't say we should win the comp, or mean to imply it either. Having said that, you're a better chance if you're in the finals than not. Anything can happen in footy, and you'd be lying if you didn't at least have a small space in the back of your head thinking that the miracle could be possible in 2013.

The truth is, we don't give ourselves a chance at even the most remote odds fairy tale - and that's what pisses me off. We're good enough to do that on paper and let the football gods decide the rest. I don't expect a premiership, but putting even a modicum of a dream in my mind would be nice more than once every 20 years. Give ourselves the best chance, get KP in red hot form and just see what happens. That's the expectation - whatever results come from that are sort of secondary to be honest.

 

[Yosh]

The club needs to lift its standards as a whole. Club is happy enough to compete. That's a fact. Club should be disgusted at every loss and expect what the Storm, Roosters or Panthers expect from their head coach and players week in week out.

 

[perverse]

To illustrate this in an image...

We need to be playing in that green circle consistently - plain and simple - and hope the better teams have days where they're also in that green circle. We can move our bar further right with coaching and roster improvements. Effort and desire will move you around within your own rectangle. We spend way too much time down at the left side of our rectangle. That - beyond anything skills based or roster based - is what constantly pisses me off about this team.

And just on the Panthers game in particular... I think we probably were in and around the green circle for our current situation with who is on the field - and the Panthers too for that matter... which is the only reason there was only 4-6 points in it with 15 to go. I think there's only a few team matchups in the comp that don't have at least a bit of overlap with their rectangles - e.g Panthers and Bulldogs. The Panthers could probably beat the Dogs playing their very worst football. For the most part, though - the expectation for your NRL team should be that they're playing up the top end of their rectangle every week.

 

[Zoidberg]

As for the attitude, I look at the team and don't see players that hate to lose like Joey and BK did.

That’s my issue with Ponga. I love him and he is a great player, but he seems so passive on the field. He is happy to have a good game but doesn’t push others around him to do the same.
Very laid back. It’s a good attitude to have, and I’m similar, but maybe not in professional sports.

 

[Knight Tales]

A million a season for being happy with 'energy' from your playmaker and organiser is not good enough... and is a big part of the problem this club has.

We need halves who can win us matches with skill... and not just against the bottom 4 sides.

He won’t be on that after this season. And he is currently on his third major injury since he got here. That somehow never enters the conversation. If the club is for real IMO they should be looking at Foran for a couple of years and roll the dice on a reduced deal cos I reckon he and Junior will absolutely tear it up. You want motivation. Junior literally begged the club to sign Foran and was ignored. It would be worth the risk. Foran is still only 30.

 

[Old dog]

I see some on here disappointed with the pack and rightly so but the players are good enough as a group but not all showing it at once. We don’t need any other forwards to be improving we need good organising halves capable of changing what ain’t working. If we brought in three players of top quality not all big money and let three go including Pearce and they were a right centre, a 6 and a 7 we would be very strong then in future years replace 2-3 every year throughout side you would stay strong. Holding on to players on downward slide does not help and slows development of side

 

[slotmachine]

The Knights have made some all time dumb recruitment decisions but signing a washed up Foran because Pearce asked would have been the peak

 

[Yosh]

The Knights have made some all time dumb recruitment decisions but signing a washed up Foran because Pearce asked would have been the peak

Exactly. If they both got injured we would have a bunch of cap space tied up and no one really to step up. We should have let Pearce go at the end of this season and went with a new combination of Clifford/Dearden for example for next season. Would only cost half as much but be on the field a lot more and not offer much less than those two.

 

[Jono078]

That’s my issue with Ponga. I love him and he is a great player, but he seems so passive on the field. He is happy to have a good game but doesn’t push others around him to do the same.
Very laid back. It’s a good attitude to have, and I’m similar, but maybe not in professional sports.

This is where that article from a few weeks ago saying some in the team feel they are rockstars and don't need to win to maintain that image.

I think we have some in the team who are more keen on improving other aspects of their life which may be building a podcast, a fashion brand, photography or whatever it is - and that's cool to have those hobbies, but that's not their main source of income right now.

Joey used to say it best, when he was on, for 80 minutes there was no other place he wanted to be or think of, he just wanted to win. I wish we had that killer desire. I'm so envious of the Storm and what they've accomplished over the last couple of decades. Even this year they're not winning every game but they compete in everything and if they lose you know they've done everything they can to win that game, right up until the end.

 

[Yosh]

Looking not too far back, we were literally the worst team in the competition. Won 3 wooden spoons in a row. Now we're a solid midtable side that should finish in the top 8 every season. It's not unrealistic to suggest that we could move onto being a consistent top 4 side in a few seasons time. Club seems well run now, have a great catchment area for juniors and a bright head coach. Also, could also be super wishful thinking.

I think we have never won a minor premiership. Wonder when we will win one of them!!

 

[GidleyTwinz]

So Cronulla just got a set restart called before being bungled into touch. It became a penalty, because "they didn't get an advantage".

Does that mean if we get one of those tackle one set restarts for the opposition being offside, we can just knock it on deliberately to actually get the penalty?

 

[Burwood]

So Cronulla just got a set restart called before being bungled into touch. It became a penalty, because "they didn't get an advantage".

Does that mean if we get one of those tackle one set restarts for the opposition being offside, we can just knock it on deliberately to actually get the penalty?

That would pretty much be a free hit like off a no ball in cricket. You get the zero tackle to do anything you want and if it doesn’t come off and there’s a knock on etc, you just come back and play the ball again.

 

[Knight76]

This is where that article from a few weeks ago saying some in the team feel they are rockstars and don't need to win to maintain that image.

I think we have some in the team who are more keen on improving other aspects of their life which may be building a podcast, a fashion brand, photography or whatever it is - and that's cool to have those hobbies, but that's not their main source of income right now.

Joey used to say it best, when he was on, for 80 minutes there was no other place he wanted to be or think of, he just wanted to win. I wish we had that killer desire. I'm so envious of the Storm and what they've accomplished over the last couple of decades. Even this year they're not winning every game but they compete in everything and if they lose you know they've done everything they can to win that game, right up until the end.

It doesn't matter who we recruit until we get our attitude right, and compete in every game for the 80.

You simply can't have success in the NRL, unless you work hard for it and push your opposition all the way.

I think OB is a good coach but I'd love him to have Payten's expectation of performance instilled in him. I don't know if OB is that hard line style coach, or the gently gently style. He gets annoyed in the box about lack of effort on plays, but how hard line is he behind the scenes?