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Michael Hagan, Brian Smith offer feud for thought

BG

Juniors
Messages
1,075
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,24108097-5006066,00.html


By Nick Walshaw | August 01, 2008 12:00am


BRIAN Smith knows the worth of this rivalry. Exactly $26.90. Or the price of one Bavarian chocolate cake from Michel's Patisserie.
"Yeah, every time we win a game the office girls go out and buy a victory cake," Knights football manager Warren Smiles explains.
"It's a tradition Michael Hagan started. Actually it's one I think he's still continuing at Parramatta."
Of all the feuds, rivalries and outright bad blood exploding in 2008, none are more intriguing than this Battle of the Bavarians.
Because you can forget the egos and agendas on this one. Forget grudges and petty jealousies too.
In fact, ignore all those nasties that often turn the NRL into a giant pre-school sandpit.
Because these two adversaries, well, they've seen fewer dramas than a Hootie & The Blowfish concert. There's no controversy. No stinks. A rivalry measured not by fists and fiery exchanges . . . but water, flour, eggs and milk.
"Sorry, even I'm drawing a blank," noted historian David Middleton concedes.
"I can't recall a critical remark made between them."
Yet no one needs to see the Middo mind ticking over to know something bubbles here.
Don't need to hear that "no comment" from both men when the topic is raised. Nor read all 650 press reports they've both appeared in since October 24, 2005.
That was the day Smith learned his Parramatta deal was done. Some 28 days later Hagan also shoved on to the NRL market.
A unique set of circumstances that would eventually see this duo complete, well, the most controversial swap not involving a bowl and car keys.
It was a exchange drawing instant comparisons. Instant headlines. One that sealed their feuding fates.
Because, sure, these fellas never wanted war. But neither do roosters until someone ties blades to their ankle, places them in a cage . . . and shakes.
Shakes. Like during that slanging match between Hagan and Souths counterpart Jason Taylor. The old halfback rivals dropping a series of f-bombs before JT really let it rip.
"Mate, what's here at Parramatta Brian Smith already had that in place," he fired.
"Meanwhile, he's up there in Newcastle trying to re-build what you f . . . . ed up."
Shakes . Like Fairfax columnist Phil Gould a fortnight ago, when asked why Parramatta were doing so poorly.
"(Because) it takes 18 months to destroy a good culture and 18 months to repair a bad one," Gould lectured. "Look at Newcastle and Parramatta, where they were and where they are now . . . the answer is fairly obvious."
And so, come Monday night, these two roosters fight.
Each with eight cakes, seasons on the line and everybody watching.
Because, suddenly, this is more than two coaches who've competed through eight seasons, 14 matches and one unforgettable 2001 grand final.
It's a battle of principles. Of ideals. Of the oddest pairing since Julia Roberts married Lyle Lovett.
Smith, of course, is the dictator. All whiteboards, breathalysers and random text messages.
A former James Cook High teacher who demands socks up, shirts in. Who starts churning through video less than two hours after games.
In 18 months this perfectionist has increased the Knights rehab staff, overhauled their playing roster and added son Rohan as second assistant coach.
And while the dogs barked, his caravan rolled on.
He replaced old shipping containers on bumpy training paddocks with an elite training and recovery centre worth millions.
Even Knights junior sides now have sprint and strength coaches for the first time.
Smith is the footballing mind who, come Monday night, will have survived a staggering 500 games. Who beat Penrith in round 18 with, says chief executive Steve Burraston, "the best coaching performance I've ever seen".
"So there's no doubting we made the right choice," Burraston says. "Because Newcastle needed a technical coach.
"Needed someone who could take our players back to basics and develop game plans around them. Who could lead us into life after Andrew Johns."
And there it is again. Shakes.
Because in the other corner stands the man who, the Knights board suggested, could do none of that.
This bloke all Queensland hospitality and mumbled press conferences. Whose laidback style was once likened to a coach "knitting in the grandstand".
Which only provides fuel for the feud.
Because Hages, his critics say, is too easygoing. Smith too strict. One bagged for his 21 winters without a first grade premiership . . . the other's title forever attributed to one A Johns.
These are two men disagreeing on styles, office structures, even post-try celebrations.
Hagan, the impassioned Queenslander who still lost his two Origin series as coach.
Smith, the finals specialist who has copped the most unappealing coach tag every year since Rugby League Week first posed the question in 2000.
"So if you could only put 'em together" one player coached by both says, "mate, you'd have yourself the best coach on the planet."
But that won't be happening. Because this is a feud, remember.
And come next Tuesday morning . . . well, only one bloke gets to eat his Bavarian chocolate cake.
 

Pumba

First Grade
Messages
8,542
Reckon Wicksy would put in a better effort in a game in chance of having abit of cake from a win.
 

Big Tim

First Grade
Messages
6,500
That was a great read.

I really liked that article, it is in a very similair style to my favourite Journalist, Jeremy Clarkson. Loved it.
 
Messages
3,813
Gould is on fire this week. He has smashed Gallop on radio, sledged Hages and basically let rip cos he is the average football fan's conscience. Gus isn't liked by some cos he shoots very straight and has the genius to back up what he thinks just like Sterlo. They are analytical minds with a great ability to articulate their thoughts into simple sentences. Gus coaches while he commentates, and can pick something coming a complete set of six before it happens. Frankly he is a top draw geezer in my book. Gallop has always bothered me.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Gould is on fire this week. He has smashed Gallop on radio, sledged Hages and basically let rip cos he is the average football fan's conscience. Gus isn't liked by some cos he shoots very straight and has the genius to back up what he thinks just like Sterlo. They are analytical minds with a great ability to articulate their thoughts into simple sentences. Gus coaches while he commentates, and can pick something coming a complete set of six before it happens. Frankly he is a top draw geezer in my book. Gallop has always bothered me.


Have to agree on Phil Gould. As a thinker he is one of the games best. His problem is he has an oversized perception of his self worth.

As a football commentator he can be annoying " no, no, no, no, no "...

The game wouldn't be in half the sh*t it is right now if more Phil Goulds were directly involved in the running of the game ( but kept away from the commentary box )...
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
Have to agree on Phil Gould. As a thinker he is one of the games best. His problem is he has an oversized perception of his self worth.

As a football commentator he can be annoying " no, no, no, no, no "...

The game wouldn't be in half the sh*t it is right now if more Phil Goulds were directly involved in the running of the game ( but kept away from the commentary box )...
I agree, potato head definately knows what he's talking about and isn't affraid to say what he thinks.
I never watch the Thursday footy show but decided I would this week just to see the fallout from SBW's departure. How lame was all the questioning?? honestly Andrew Voss was about as in depth as my mates 2year old paddling in a toddlers pool. The whole show asked no searching questions, and certainly left me no wiser as the direction the game is planned to go by Gallop. The whole thing was wishy washy retoric. Definately could've used Gould there to ask some difficult questions. I noted with great mirth that Daley thinks the game is healthy (who's he sucking up too?? )Can't stand the guy.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
I noted with great mirth that Daley thinks the game is healthy (who's he sucking up too?? )Can't stand the guy.


My guess is Daley's agenda is all about getting the NSW coaching gig if Bellamy pulls out, and talking down the game isn't going to help his causes.

I was watching what he was saying, and thinking to myself Daley is fricken kidding himself.

I mean he really couldn't mean the things he was saying surely...
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
The game is healthy.
Crowds are close to record levels.
The number of people watching on TV has never been greater.
The international game is growing and growing.
The number of fulltime professional players in the game has gone from maybe 100 fifteen years ago to maybe 1000 now, with 30 fully professional clubs in the world from next year and semi professional leagues in PNG, France, NL1 in england, Russia (only two teams semi pro) and the Queensland cup - and even the NYC which started this year has probably allowed a few hundred kids to go pro for a year or two at least.

The game of Rugby League has never had more money, more fans, more pro players, more TV coverage or a higher standard of play than right now.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
The game is healthy.
Crowds are close to record levels.
The number of people watching on TV has never been greater.
The international game is growing and growing.
The number of fulltime professional players in the game has gone from maybe 100 fifteen years ago to maybe 1000 now, with 30 fully professional clubs in the world from next year and semi professional leagues in PNG, France, NL1 in england, Russia (only two teams semi pro) and the Queensland cup - and even the NYC which started this year has probably allowed a few hundred kids to go pro for a year or two at least.

The game of Rugby League has never had more money, more fans, more pro players, more TV coverage or a higher standard of play than right now.


The game is healthy? :roll: Its healthy in one state.

Crowds are close to record levels because of all the free tickets given away week in week out. :lol: ( 5,000 alone in a crowd of 9,276 at last nights Rabbitohs game ). Take away the thousands of freebies and see what the crowds are really like.

TV ratings have never been greater? Friday Night Footy is getting beaten in Sydney ratings by every channel except for SBS!

International game is crap and we all know it.

Just because the game hasn't had more money doesn't mean its earning what it is worth or should be earning. Most people get wage increases every year in any occupation, so that's nothing special and exclusive to rugby league.

Mate if you think the game is going fine, you sound like just the perfect candidate to get a job with the NRL , on their board or something.

It is an ignorant, delusional, blinkered view of a situation that is nowhere near as good as you make out.

Spin doctoring the games problems is only adding to them.
 
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roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
The game is healthy? :roll: Its healthy in one state.

Crowds are close to record levels because of all the free tickets given away week in week out. :lol: ( 5,000 alone in a crowd of 9,276 at last nights Rabbitohs game ). Take away the thousands of freebies and see what the crowds are really like.

TV ratings have never been greater? Friday Night Footy is getting beaten in Sydney ratings by every channel except for SBS :lol:

International game is crap and we all know it.

Just because the game hasn't had more money doesn't mean its earning what it is worth or should be earning. Most people get wage increases every year in any occupation, so that's nothing special and exclusive to rugby league.

Mate if you think the game is going fine, you sound like just the perfect candidate to get a job with the NRL , on their board or something.

It is an ignorant, delusional, blinkered view of a situation that is nowhere near as good as you make out.

Spin doctoring the games problems is only adding to them.
The game is turning over just under half a billion dollars a year worldwide, and it is growing rapidly.
You can talk it down all you like (and putting sh*t on things seems to be your 'talent') - but by any measure the game has doubled or tripled in size since the Knights joined the NRL 21 years ago.
Even this year we have seen the brilliant success of the NYC, Catalans in France, Celtic Crusaders getting a franchise for next season, Our ground getting 60 million spent, Titans getting a new ground and setting records, Melbourne getting a new ground.
Will you just go and follow the Jets.
Soccer needs a few death riders, and that is what you do best.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
The game is turning over just under half a billion dollars a year worldwide, and it is growing rapidly.
You can talk it down all you like (and putting sh*t on things seems to be your 'talent') - but by any measure the game has doubled or tripled in size since the Knights joined the NRL 21 years ago.
Even this year we have seen the brilliant success of the NYC, Catalans in France, Celtic Crusaders getting a franchise for next season, Our ground getting 60 million spent, Titans getting a new ground and setting records, Melbourne getting a new ground.
Will you just go and follow the Jets.
Soccer needs a few death riders, and that is what you do best.


Ah Roopy, your passion for the game is admirable, but your ignorance is laughable.

You are deadset kidding yourself if you truly believe all the stuff you are putting forward.

You make it out like a business that grows must be doing good. How many business models , in or outside of sport, do you think double or tripe in size in 20 years :lol: I'm pretty sure Apple Computers have done ok in that time too ;-) There are countless businesses growing year in year out but the true question comes down to whether or not the business is growing to its true capabilities! Is the business maximising its earning potential?

You get personal with me and accuse me of being a death rider. No Roopy, I'm a realist. I'm as passionate about the game and the team as you are - maybe even more so - but I can recognise when there is problems and I'm not one to delude myself into thinking there isn't just because of my love for the game.

The game is turning over ' just under half a billion dollars a year ' as you claimed ( would love some verification of that? ), yet the NRL admits to not having any extra money in the bank? Maybe some serious administration issues somewhere along the way? You speak up the international game, RL isn't a pimple on the sporting landscape ass internationally. Spend some time in the UK and you'll see apart from a few smaller cities in the North of England, RL barely gets a mention. It gets minor newspaper space in the biggest London papers.

Your self righteousness attitude that comes across that makes out like you're some great fan because you say nice things about the game ( or Knights ) while I am not just because we disagree or I say less nice things is pathetic.

Out of the two of us, you're the one who leans on personal garbage like telling me to go support the Jets or death ride soccer, but it's ok, I see through that and realise the true reason why that is - fans like me, or journos like Roy Masters, Phil Gould etc, tell it as it really is, and bring up simple facts, figures, and logic to the situation which p*sses blinkered and biased league fans right off.

It would be all rosy to walk around living in this rugby league fantasy dream land you delude yourself into living in, and every one is happy, and everything is great, and crowds are up, and the game is stronger than ever... and there's the toothfairy and Santa too.

But no, realists know that isn't the case.

And no, just because realists speak their mind, it sure as sh*t doesn't make us any less of a fan or less passionate about the game than the next bloke.
 
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antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
What really p!sses me off more than anything is the short shrift the game gets from TV coverage. I think the game undersells its self badly. If it was to get what it is worth from 9 and Fox the money would be there to pay players their true worth. Instead they get paid peanuts, and just to rub salt into the wounds they dictate who plays when. The game needs to be controlled by itself not media outlets with their own agendas.
 

antonius

Coach
Messages
10,104
The game is healthy.
Crowds are close to record levels.
The number of people watching on TV has never been greater.
The international game is growing and growing.
The number of fulltime professional players in the game has gone from maybe 100 fifteen years ago to maybe 1000 now, with 30 fully professional clubs in the world from next year and semi professional leagues in PNG, France, NL1 in england, Russia (only two teams semi pro) and the Queensland cup - and even the NYC which started this year has probably allowed a few hundred kids to go pro for a year or two at least.

The game of Rugby League has never had more money, more fans, more pro players, more TV coverage or a higher standard of play than right now.
The games biggest problem Roops is it's going broke (rather the Sydney based clubs for the most part are going broke.) Overseas the game may well be growing in Australia it's stagnating. Our own club struggles every year to hold it's head above water, Players will continue to leave Australia at an ever increasing rate if they don't start getting paid what they are worth, maybe that's why it's growing overseas? The game here needs a massive restructuring, get some people running the game that have some buisness nouse, generate more income, and get the media paying what the game is worth as far as tv rights are concerned, and get the game back to being run by the game, not outside influences. How that's done I don't know, but it needs doing sooner than later because if it isn't all our elite players will be overseas playing.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
Of course Antonius. The fluff put forward by those trying to defend the pathetic TV deal ( and even worse than the TV deal - the multimedia deal with Bigpond ) are just living in fantasy land.

Some people who say the game has grown in 21 years as a business model might want to turn the focus a little more close to home here at the Knights.

The Knights organisation is lucky to clear a PROFIT year to year, and in some years, have lost massive amounts of money, and are a prime example of countering the belief that the game has continued to improve financially. Forget just the Sydney clubs, here close to home, its a battle year in year out to make a piddly bloody 100,000 dollar profit.

Its rubbish.

A good business improves profits year to year, not goes backwards from one year, up the next , up the next, back down to record losses etc.
 
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roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
CEOs have been moaning about going broke since Dally Messenger blew out easts budget in 1908.
They will still all find the 15 to 20 million needed to run their clubs, as they do every year.
 

Karmawave

Bench
Messages
4,950
CEOs have been moaning about going broke since Dally Messenger blew out easts budget in 1908.
They will still all find the 15 to 20 million needed to run their clubs, as they do every year.


And?

That makes rugby league a successful business?

Only business I know where the goal is to simply cover costs year in year out! :roll:

You mentioned all this growth in the last 21 years.

Where is the financial growth of the Newcastle Knights? Where does the Knights bank balance show more money in it now than in 1988. Seeing as though there is nothing more than 1988 in the bank ( thanks to losses in previous years ) , how exactly has the business financially grown?
 
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roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
And?

That makes rugby league a successful business?

Only business I know where the goal is to simply cover costs year in year out! :roll:

You mentioned all this growth in the last 21 years.

Where is the financial growth of the Newcastle Knights? Where does the Knights bank balance show more money in it now than in 1988. Seeing as though there is nothing more than 1988 in the bank ( thanks to losses in previous years ) , how exactly has the business financially grown?
In 1988 half our firstgraders were semi-pro and the coaching and support staff could meet in a phonebox.
Our NYC team is a more professional, well paid and well run outfit than our 1988 firstgrade side was - and would probably beat the 1988 firstgrade side by 50.
 

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