Michael Hagan: put up or shut up, Jarryd Hayne

[The Colonel]

But good luck to them, and if there is resentment from other players about how much those three guys are getting, the certain senior players should look at their own deals, then look in the mirror and ask if they are playing up to that level.

What did we expect Hayne and Inu to do? Say 'Sorry Fitzy, I can't sign that deal, you're paying overs'

Would you knock back what Hindmarsh is earning?

Cayless and Riddell - no problem in that area. Robinson is not supposed to be on very much and Wagon and Burt apparently took paycuts last time out.

But in terms of incentive to get better in the Hayne and Inu contracts...... and I am aware we don't know the exact details of the contract...... you could almost assume that there wasn't much in the way of incentives to earn more.

I wonder whether those doing the negotiations succumbed to the hype that surrounded the negotiations....... given where we are now with apparently "no money" than you could assume that to be correct.

 

[bartman]

I never recall anyone in recent years haggling for so long (and so publically) about their next Eels contract as Hayne in the off-season, and to a lesser extent Inu (lesser, because I understand he was next in the pecking order and had to wait on the Hayne outcome before finalising?). I might be wrong, but I can't recall anyone else holding out for more money, not counting than those who left for other reasons (Tahu, PJ, Tonga...).

I agree with Colonel all that off-field side of the business can really affect team morale and cohesiveness, and start to mean that a team aren't playing as a unit and for each other, but instead just a bunch of talented individuals who might click. That's been this season in a nutshell - to some extent it's the coach's job to make those individuals gel, but if ego gets in the way - and is not matched by on-field performance, then it's a hard ask for any coach and some/much responsibility should fall on the shoulders of the players who brought their egos into it.

I wouldnt say he failed in the centres. I thought he was getting better each game there considering it was a new position. Tahu took almost an entire season to make the switch, and in 2005 struggled out wide early in that season when the side was struggling.

I would say it was a failure. He was shifted after what 15 rounds of it not working, when Inu and Reddy had made the most of their shifts to the centre in much quicker time. Sooky had a whinge about no longer wanting to play on the wing (depsite having just played 2 SOO games there), and so there was only oneposition left for him - which the coach has to try before leaving him right out, as insinuated in the article.

I hope he has a blinder tonight, but am fearful taht if he doesn't, the division created by his statements to the media (and by Hagan's late decision to make the selection change he was demanding) risk tearing out team apart even more so. That's the thing that will matter more in the long run to our team's performances (this year and next?) than what number jersey our precious happens to be wearing.

 

[fish eel]

Would you knock back what Hindmarsh is earning?

Of course not.

But in terms of incentive to get better in the Hayne and Inu contracts...... and I am aware we don't know the exact details of the contract...... you could almost assume that there wasn't much in the way of incentives to earn more.

But that is hardly Inu or Hayne's fault.

I wonder whether those doing the negotiations succumbed to the hype that surrounded the negotiations....... given where we are now with apparently "no money" than you could assume that to be correct.

If the club are unable to manage to cap, thats the fault of the club, not the players.

I never recall anyone in recent years haggling for so long (and so publically) about their next Eels contract as Hayne in the off-season, and to a lesser extent Inu (lesser, because I understand he was next in the pecking order and had to wait on the Hayne outcome before finalising?). I might be wrong, but I can't recall anyone else holding out for more money, not counting than those who left for other reasons (Tahu, PJ, Tonga...).

was he really holding out? did it really drag on? or was there just a heap of media talk?

when Inu and Reddy had made the most of their shifts to the centre in much quicker time

Both those guys had played quite a bit of centre before this season.

 

[The Colonel]

If the club are unable to manage to cap, thats the fault of the club, not the players.

I never recall anyone in recent years haggling for so long (and so publically) about their next Eels contract as Hayne in the off-season, and to a lesser extent Inu (lesser, because I understand he was next in the pecking order and had to wait on the Hayne outcome before finalising?). I might be wrong, but I can't recall anyone else holding out for more money, not counting than those who left for other reasons (Tahu, PJ, Tonga...).

I agree with Colonel all that off-field side of the business can really affect team morale and cohesiveness, and start to mean that a team aren't playing as a unit and for each other, but instead just a bunch of talented individuals who might click. That's been this season in a nutshell - to some extent it's the coach's job to make those individuals gel, but if ego gets in the way - and is not matched by on-field performance, then it's a hard ask for any coach and some/much responsibility should fall on the shoulders of the players who brought their egos into it.

What bart said.

 

[The Colonel]

Both those guys had played quite a bit of centre before this season.

Inu, yes. Reddy - has played most of his career at fullback in the lower grades. Was moved to the wing for a few games and played centre for a few as well last year but has usually been used solely at fullback.

 

[fish eel]

Inu, yes. Reddy - has played most of his career at fullback in the lower grades. Was moved to the wing for a few games and played centre for a few as well last year but has usually been used solely at fullback.

a couple of seasons back he played a stack of football in the centres in premier league and was also used there late last season in the finals IIRC

 

[bartman]

was he really holding out? did it really drag on? or was there just a heap of media talk?

Yes, yes and yes.

Both those guys had played quite a bit of centre before this season.

But on this year's form could any coach justify the continuance of Hayne's selection at centre, in front of Reddy (who was criticised there heavily early in the year but turned it around) or a returning and energetic Inu?

He made the right selection, moving hayne to his rep spot for the sake of the team, but the sooky ego couldn't help but have a whinge. "I don't want to play on the wing" was an unforgivable statement to make to or through the media without having talked to the coach, and the moment I read it I knew it would have a bad effect on teammates, who have been (publically) happy to be picked wherever they are put (including Wenty.

Again, no problem with elite players having ego, as long as they perform to back it up. Still waiting for Hayne to do this year, now in position number 3... I can understand the likes of Hindy who play and play on with injury for 80 mins of involvement and saving tries on the line etc each week, being quite upset with the whole situation, which becomes a bad thing for the team as a whole.

 

[The Colonel]

a couple of seasons back he played a stack of football in the centres in premier league and was also used there late last season in the finals IIRC

Played moreso on the wing a couple of seasons ago when players were shifted in from the wing. Played some football there last year in the centres due to a lack of.

 

[fish eel]

Yes, yes and yes.

so you were privy to negotiations? ;-)

He made the right selection, moving hayne to his rep spot for the sake of the team, but the sooky ego couldn't help but have a whinge. "I don't want to play on the wing" was an unforgivable statement to make to or through the media without having talked to the coach, and the moment I read it I knew it would have a bad effect on teammates, who have been (publically) happy to be picked wherever they are put (including Wenty.

Seriously Barty, when you read what was said, not the headlines or the editorialising, what he actually said, it's been blown right out of proportion. You're starting to sound like Parra Pete talking about Tim Smith ;-)

I will say this though, and I've said it before - while I am happy he is at fullback, I was puzzled it came a week after Michael Hagan publicly said we needed to see more from him before he would be moved. For Hagan to shift him a week later tells me we have a weak coach.

 

[The Colonel]

I will say this though, and I've said it before - while I am happy he is at fullback, I was puzzled it came a week after Michael Hagan publicly said we needed to see more from him before he would be moved. For Hagan to shift him a week later tells me we have a weak coach.

See this makes me wonder. Is it a weak coach or someone further up....... it doesn't make a lot of sense given the comments by Hagan in the paper earlier.

 

[COACH STERLING]

Atleast Hayne is a winner and has some balls.

Our forwards are the ones who should be under the pump not Hayne.

f**k these journo's p*ss me off.

 

[bartman]

so you were privy to negotiations? ;-)

Obviously not :roll: so why ask my opinion if you are going to reject it purely on that basis?

I was privy to the length of time negotiations were on the puiblic record (and who put them and kept them on the public record, I might ask...?), yes it dragged on (in my opinion as a fan, so how might his fellow teammates felt?), and yes obviously there is a lot of media BS along the way too.

Seriously Barty, when you read what was said, not the headlines or the editorialising, what he actually said, it's been blown right out of proportion.

I read what he said on day one: "I don't want to play on the wing". That was the first comment out there, before the cliches about (obviously) having to do what the coach wants. That one statement is the one I had and have issue with. Nothing blown out of proportion by the media in that, he showed a lack of brains and respect and team comradeship to say that statement, and was saying it from shaky ground having just worked off a 3 game suspension where he contributed nothing to the team.

Here's a political equivalent - an existing minsiter comes out in public and says "I don't want to be Immigration minister anymore", "I'll have to have a chat to Kev can do about getting me away from that"... do you think the PM and the rest of the party would blow up? Do you think his comrades would blow-up? The media is irrelevant in that other than reporting the quote, the damage done is inside.

You're starting to sound like Parra Pete talking about Tim Smith ;-)

Only because you happen to disagree, and yet keep challenging and trying to pick holes in a differing opinion - like many try with Parra Pete. I haven't made any comments on my opinion re Hayne in any thread that is not relevant to Hayne, that I recall? And don't intend to. But will not be put off from replying or being silenced just because it might be a minority opinion, and neither should Parra Pete (or JTB, or Jay Jay Selmes or any of the others that people sporadically try to goad out of this forum).

I will say this though, and I've said it before - while I am happy he is at fullback, I was puzzled it came a week after Michael Hagan publicly said we needed to see more from him before he would be moved. For Hagan to shift him a week later tells me we have a weak coach.

Agree with you there. Making this selection change after those statements and after naming a team on Tuesday arvo can only serve to further unsettle the tensions and divisions that are becoming obvious for all too see.

We need a coach who can take action to heal the bruises of these precious egos, bring people together to play for each other (no matter the number on their jersey, or the digist in their pay packets). It sounds like an off-season job, perhaps getting someone new in, eg sports psychs, or a new coach altogether...

 

[EELICIT]

absolutely pumped for tonights game! I wonder how many scotch glasses im gonna break! lol

 

[bartman]

My expectation is very low... so the only glasses I'll be breaking might be droped through sheer surprise if we manage to be competitive :lol:

 

[fish eel]

See this makes me wonder. Is it a weak coach or someone further up....... it doesn't make a lot of sense given the comments by Hagan in the paper earlier.

On that we agree.

You either put someone on notice or don't.

Obviously not :roll: so why ask my opinion if you are going to reject it purely on that basis?


I was privy to the length of time negotiations were on the puiblic record (and who put them and kept them on the public record, I might ask...?), yes it dragged on (in my opinion as a fan, so how might his fellow teammates felt?), and yes obviously there is a lot of media BS along the way too.

You seem willing to hang Hayne based on the time, or alledged time it took him to sign. None of us are privy to what actually went on, beyond a lot media hype, and probably even more hype and innuendo on this board - courtesy of some south sydney trolls ;-)

I read what he said on day one: "I don't want to play on the wing". That was the first comment out there, before the cliches about (obviously) having to do what the coach wants. That one statement is the one I had and have issue with. Nothing blown out of proportion by the media in that, he showed a lack of brains and respect and team comradeship to say that statement, and was saying it from shaky ground having just worked off a 3 game suspension where he contributed nothing to the team.

Here's a political equivalent - an existing minsiter comes out in public and says "I don't want to be Immigration minister anymore", "I'll have to have a chat to Kev can do about getting me away from that"... do you think the PM and the rest of the party would blow up? Do you think his comrades would blow-up? The media is irrelevant in that other than reporting the quote, the damage done is inside.

I believe the comments were blown out of proportion on this board, not in the telegraph. It was actually quite a small one colum article.

Only because you happen to disagree, and yet keep challenging and trying to pick holes in a differing opinion - like many try with Parra Pete. I haven't made any comments on my opinion re Hayne in any thread that is not relevant to Hayne, that I recall? And don't intend to. But will not be put off from replying or being silenced just because it might be a minority opinion, and neither should Parra Pete (or JTB, or Jay Jay Selmes or any of the others that people sporadically try to goad out of this forum).

No, I only say that because in a few posts your rhetoric has reached Parra Pete levels, 'sooky ego', 'unforgivable' etc. OLut of proportion IMO and over the top. But yeah, atleast you arent slipping it in every thread.....yet :lol:

Agree with you there. Making this selection change after those statements and after naming a team on Tuesday arvo can only serve to further unsettle the tensions and divisions that are becoming obvious for all too see.

We need a coach who can take action to heal the bruises of these precious egos, bring people together to play for each other (no matter the number on their jersey, or the digist in their pay packets). It sounds like an off-season job, perhaps getting someone new in, eg sports psychs, or a new coach altogether...

Part of being a coach is managing the players, and by their nature, egos.

If there is a problem with that at Parramatta, Hagan clearly aint up to the task.

Guys like Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho, Rafa Benetiz, seem to be able to manage much bigger egos than what we have here.

Could you imagine any one of them, putting a guy on notice publicly only to back down less than a week later?

 

[fish eel]

double post

 

[forward pass]

I will say this though, and I've said it before - while I am happy he is at fullback, I was puzzled it came a week after Michael Hagan publicly said we needed to see more from him before he would be moved. For Hagan to shift him a week later tells me we have a weak coach.

I would argue that it takes a strong coach to drop a club favourite like Burt - even Grothe - not a weak one!

 

[fish eel]

I would argue that it takes a strong coach to drop a club favourite like Burt - even Grothe - not a weak one!

I'm not sure either was a hard decision FP.

The tough decisions with our squad lie up front IMO and we havent seen any real change.

 

[strider]

would have been a tougher decision to drop the club's highest paid players

 

[hineyrulz]

Hayne is on a hiding to nothing tonight, he plays well people will have a crack at him for well not having a crack earlier. And he plays poorly well he'll cop it as well.

From the moment he came into grade he has always looked our longterm fullback. We let Mackinnon go presumably because we had Hayne as our longterm fullback. Last season Burt got first crack and played remarkably well. But then he copped a bad injury and Hayne got his chance. I thought for the first month he was rather average, But by the finals he had turned it around and was one of the form players of the comp.


At the end of last season the club made a decision, do we give a contract to Burt who while great this season had only been a good first grader at best for 10 seasons. Or let Burt go and let the future superstar in Hayne take the fullback posistion and make it his own the the next 10 yrs. So what does the club do???? has a bit each way and sign them both up, by the looks it was Hage's decision so no matter how poorly Burt played he was reluctant to drop him because it was his decision to keep him.


IMO it was the wrong one, we took a punt on a guy who has been a good player at best for us. The club could take a punt on Burt and an injury riddled B Smith but it wouldn't take a punt on a Williams or a Mannah.