What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Most Overrated Big Name Recruits

Rex Terp

First Grade
Messages
6,808
Widdop looke world class in the semi against the Bulldogs last year.

He is playing poorly at the moment but some of the comments above are shameful.

I reckon the last thing you'd call Widdop is arrogant. The opposite is probably his problem.
 

Reddragon

Bench
Messages
2,831
Individual players are not the issue at the Dragons.
It's a dysfunctional system at present that makes everyone look bad.
Then there's an inept administration behind it all.
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
9,687
Benny V, I respect your opinion and I would love to be wrong regarding Widdop. Unfortunately I am right. He is an absolute freaking donkey mate. An over-rated plodding donkey.

I understand that Mann is on closer to $400K to $250K. This comes from a close friend who is a player manager. The Storm were only prepared to pay him $250K....we were suckered in at $400K. Can you believe we are paying $400K for a NSW Cup Player?

A shambles and a debacle Benny V. The sooner Widdop asks for (and is granted) a release the better. He is a fraud.

Mate, Widdop isn't as bad as what you make out. What is happening out there is a combination of inexperienced coaching and players that need a good system to succeed. Hence why Widdop and Mann looked best under Bellamy. Mary just isn't a tactician and a teacher, pure and simple. Mal Meninga won 8 straight Origins and he doesn't have a clue how to coach. But when you have the Qld Origin team, it doesn't really matter.

We pay overs for all our players unfortunately. You've cited Widdop and Mann as examples, add Dugan and Benji as well. Rein too. When you pay over $2m for a spine that's underskilled like ours, and add a 2nd year coach to the mix that's unable to develop these skills, then it's just a disaster. And when the bulk of our cap is spent on the above 4, there isn't much left. Hence you're left with slow outside backs, and forwards that don't do much more than hit it up set after set.

Getting a new coach may make us better, but we need to go a lot further than that.

Our attack puts us in the same league as the 1982 Newtown Jets. They were booted from the League the year after. That's how bad its gotten.
 
Messages
2,639
Few points:

1) The fall from grace of Widdop and Mann isn't due to how wonderful the Storm system is. It's due to how poor our system is. Widdop plays under Bennett or Hasler, he would look infinitely better. Hell, his first few games for us saw him racking up Dally M points and setting up line breaks at will, until 'Dragons footy' coached the skill out of him.

2) How much do you think Mann is on. The reported figure was around $250k...not sure how good yours maths is, but still...

x2

We shall see. I can see Widdop asking for said release, going to Bulldogs to play outside Mbye and killing it under Hasler.

OUr coaching and systems are set up to fail. No changing of players can help us until that is sorted.

x2

Individual players are not the issue at the Dragons.
It's a dysfunctional system at present that makes everyone look bad.
Then there's an inept administration behind it all.

x2

Straight Shooter
 

Jubileeboy

First Grade
Messages
9,259
Pink Moon, thanks buddy. Someone else has woken up to the Widdop fraud. If we are paying this idiot $600K a year then shame on us. He is so ordinary.

I try to offer some level of balance critique but Widdop is doing my head in. I got a sense that he was over-rated last year and this year has confirmed it. He is absolutely terrible!

It does show how effective the Melbourne Storm's structure is (and how well coached they are) in that pedestrian plodders like Widdop and Mann can look effective within the confines of that structure. Take then out of that structure and put them in an average to poor team and they are "ordinary and poor".

Here is a depressing thought...we are paying Widdop and Mann a combined salary of $1,000,000.00 PA. Throw in Rein on $400,000.00PA and you start getting suicidal.

Get rid of these 3 clowns and spend the money on players who are creative and can open spaces for the rest of the team. We are doomed with these 3 donkeys!

Your figures on Mann are incorrect. Not to mention your view of Widdop.
Just trying to balance up your critique as such.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,000
Interesting Title for the thread "Most Overrated Big Name Recruits".

IMO none of the recent purchases (post 2010) save possibly Dugan were "Big Name Recruits" that title should be reserved for Thurston, Inglis, Slater, Cronk, Burgess, SBW etc etc.

So the myth that we have "big name recruits " must be dispelled and we need to quickly realise that our recent recruits are middle of the road at best and bloody terrible in some cases.

So who is responsible for the terminology "Overrated"?

We are, because on this forum we keep talking up our new recruits thinking they are far better than what they really are.

Why do we do that?

Because we "want to believe we can compete for the comp and ultimately "we" expect way to much from them. Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear I'm afraid.

Be realistic and and think who on our roster would actually get an upgraded contract to go to to a top 8 let alone top 4 club?

If a few but probably none of them can get an upgraded contract and you still think they are good players the answer to the teams poor performance must be first levelled at the coaching style (if we have one) the team tactics and team selections.

Our style of football dumbs down players skills and then we the fans often turn on the players and say they under perform.

In some individual cases at times criticism is warranted but in the main the players with average skills go backwards and those with above average skills are reduced to lower levels very quickly.
 

Exsilium

Coach
Messages
10,347
Let's do a basic breakdown of why halves don't perform.

1: poor service from dummy half. Simply put, if the service is slow, passes are behind, over, next to or overshoot the half then what chance do they have? The defensive speeds of opposition teams mean that if its not on the mark you're already playing around defenders.

2: lack of option runners - All you widdop haters whinge when he gets caught with no space, turns on the mark and goes infield. If he had line runners who, each and every play, ran a line which gave he opposition a choice to make then he'd have a chance to go long, short or run the ball. Right now you have one line runner who doesn't even look like he wants the ball. There's a big difference between a decoy and a line runner.

3: you don't have a ball playing option at fullback. This is vital. A half will attract attention and widdop is usually rushed upon, if he throws it out to Dugan all the opposition does is mark him in numbers because he is predictable.

4: my final point is that halves require time and that's something your forwards are not giving them. You need depth from marker with a combination of the above points to create options.

I'm not saying the halves are blameless but you sure as f**k do not give them any opportunity to perform well. If Mary knew how to coach the above then you'd be belting teams.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,815
Let's do a basic breakdown of why halves don't perform.

1: poor service from dummy half. Simply put, if the service is slow, passes are behind, over, next to or overshoot the half then what chance do they have? The defensive speeds of opposition teams mean that if its not on the mark you're already playing around defenders.

2: lack of option runners - All you widdop haters whinge when he gets caught with no space, turns on the mark and goes infield. If he had line runners who, each and every play, ran a line which gave he opposition a choice to make then he'd have a chance to go long, short or run the ball. Right now you have one line runner who doesn't even look like he wants the ball. There's a big difference between a decoy and a line runner.

3: you don't have a ball playing option at fullback. This is vital. A half will attract attention and widdop is usually rushed upon, if he throws it out to Dugan all the opposition does is mark him in numbers because he is predictable.

4: my final point is that halves require time and that's something your forwards are not giving them. You need depth from marker with a combination of the above points to create options.

I'm not saying the halves are blameless but you sure as f**k do not give them any opportunity to perform well. If Mary knew how to coach the above then you'd be belting teams.

Point 1: Agree in part.....I believe our forwards, bar Packer, are too slow getting up from the ground. Hence Rein, is always rushed to make a decision on passing or running himself. If you examine the Panthers game we got good go forward from quick play the balls, Rein gave good service and was damaging from dummy half and we made plenty of metres. Move forward and slow play the balls, help the defence get up quickly, so it appears he throws bad passes etc. I'm sure if you saw a train coming at you out of the corner of your eye you'd be rushed to make a decision as well. It's still why Rein is being touted as a SOO hooker.

Point 2:100% agree

Point 3: 100% agree...passing to Dugan is so predictable that defence coaches from other teams can simply instruct their defence lines with 'Dugan". We need alternates like Friz or even Thompson hitting the hole and reserve Duges for a special play, not every play.

Point 4: 100% agree....see my point 1.
 

RedVDave

First Grade
Messages
5,746
Colin Best
Dylan Farrell
Sam Isemonger
Luke McDougall
Josh Miller
Kurt Mann (Could potentially turn out okay)
Dane Nielson
Ben Rodgers
Chase Stanley (he returned to us so it counts)
Peni Tagive
Simon Woolford
Sam Williams
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,000
Colin Best
Dylan Farrell
Sam Isemonger
Luke McDougall
Josh Miller
Kurt Mann (Could potentially turn out okay)
Dane Nielson
Ben Rodgers
Chase Stanley (he returned to us so it counts)
Peni Tagive
Simon Woolford
Sam Williams

Does big name mean the number of letters in their name because if not none of these were ever "BIG NAME" signings.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,000
With all the talk about "big signings" any thoughts where Matin Offish fits in?

Scored plenty of great tries and had lots scored down his wing but certainly was an entertainer.
 

Latest posts

Top