nathan fien brent webb, residency rule is a joke

[Misty Bee]

Numbnuts Saab, how the f**k does the ARL get to choose who playes for NZ????

I thnik the grandparent rule is ok for the WC, when filling out the pool teams that are not the big 3. Example: blokes like Jimmy Dymock playing for Tonga would do heaps for the local Tongans playing in that side. It also helps the Welsh side - one with a pretty big history in RL, to be competetive.

For test football, a player would have to be mad not to use the avenues available not play in that level. It's arguable that the Cayless brothers would have played for Australia, but by playing for NZ they have had plenty of experience at test level, and test football, the NZ jumper and the game as a whole has benefitted for it.

Australia should not have to do it. K Hunt takes the place of blokes like Eric Grothe or Luke Patton. We have a huge pool of talent, and weakening NZ, whose tri nations win last year was the best thing for international football since Jim Mills retired, is a desecration to the code.

And having Kiwi rep players playing in Aussie jumpers is bloody rediculous.

 

[screeny]

For me it's one and the same though mate, if there is no realistic competition at home, then it really is just an exercise in pretence.


If countries were able to field at least one player who has played a competitive game of football in a home league- I wouldn't have a problem with the grandparent rule - Hence why I am not overly phased about the goings on between Australia and NZ

I just think it gives the authorities an excuse to not spend as much money as possible developing the game.


& yes, I think the NZ'ers who have been playing for Wales in RU is a joke too.

I agree with you - which is why I said it's up to the authorities to ensure that teams with heavy reliance on GP rule players at national team level have domestic progress going on.

This is definitely the case with Lebanon, where a GP-laden national team includes 6 players from the local comp and where the national championship and local development all underpin the national side.

 

[Ant]

Before I get into the rest of the debate, just one point about Tonie Carroll made by Mr Saab. He did not fall under the so called rule of players being able to play for developing nations if not picked for australia. NZ along with England was not regarded as a developing nation. Carroll was not playing in the NRL at the time, he was playing in the ESL. Tonie Carroll chose to play for NZ at the time because for 2 reasons he could not get a start for australia, 1. he played in the ESL, 2. He was probably not regarded as good enough at the time.
Tonie Carroll chose to go to England for the money in 2001, he chose to play for NZ before he was picked for Australia. That should have been that, all over. It was a bad call to pick him for australia and a disgrace that he plays for both countries, in a relatively short period of time.

On the whole situation, I don't really mind who someone plays for to a certain degree amongst NZ, GB and Aust as long as they don't swap. There have been and will continue to be plenty of players who are born in one place but feel and allegience to another.

I would probably like to see the grandparent rule brought back to just parents even if it is used worldwide, that probably wont happen.

But a player should just be choosing where his heart is. Its a bit of big thing at the moment but as others have stated it has been going on for a long time in heaps of sports and there are plenty who have been accepted. Peter Sterling born in QLD one of NSW's greats. Greg Inglis chose qld, but to look at his background you would think NSW.

I am married to a Kiwi girl, our oldest boy born here but thinks NZ is his team thanks to her. But thats where his heart is at the moment. Must be the same for cayless boys and pritchard, its where your heart is.

What I don't like is players simply choosing it for the opportunity, which I think webb and fien fall under and maybe Carroll. But they have made the call the main thing is that now they stay nzers, unlike carroll.

On the guys getting to play for developing countries and big nations, look in league the developing nations are way behind. If players were forced to choose between Tonga and NZ or Aust you would see very few topliners play for those nations. Its better for the development to have the fringe guys playing for developing nations than not.

On the residency rule, well I would like it to be say 5 years, but after that its okay, just as long as they don't swap major nations.

 

[PARRA_FAN]

So long as players can only represent one country, RL is in line with numerous other sports re: eligibility. How many of them suffer the same identity crisis our game seems to over this issue time & time again?

Yeah hopefully we wont have that happening again, like Tonie Carroll and Hazem El Masri. Hopefully in years to come with the International game getting stronger they'll strict on the rules. One country only.

 

[ali]

If countries were able to field at least one player who has played a competitive game of football in a home league- I wouldn't have a problem with the grandparent rule - Hence why I am not overly phased about the goings on between Australia and NZ

Mel, well you'll be happy with the rules for the 2008 World Cup. Each team's squad must contain 6 players who have originated from the nation's domestic competition, and each nation who enters must have a minimum 4 team domestic competition. Hence the Lebanon WC 2000 situation can not be repeated. But Lebanon are attempting to qualify for the 08 World Cup and do meet the criteria. In fact the other day they qualified 17 coaches at level 2. They coaches plan to work in schools who will feed in the Lebanese University based domestic comp.

 

[screeny]

Mel, well you'll be happy with the rules for the 2008 World Cup. Each team's squad must contain 6 players who have originated from the nation's domestic competition, and each nation who enters must have a minimum 4 team domestic competition. Hence the Lebanon WC 2000 situation can not be repeated. But Lebanon are attempting to qualify for the 08 World Cup and do meet the criteria. In fact the other day they qualified 17 coaches at level 2. They coaches plan to work in schools who will feed in the Lebanese University based domestic comp.

In fact, Mel, one of the things you'll find on the lebanese site is virtually every match from every season they've played in Lebanon, and some of the domestic player names in the Cedars 06 squad go way back, so they've played a lot more than 1 domestic game!

 

[Sanchez]

does anyone remember harrison hansen i think his name was. he played in the mid year kiwis gb match for the kiwis but has not been heard of since. born in nz but grew up in england i beleive

 

[Fast Eddie]

FFS when are people are going to shut up about the 'eligbility' sh*t?

 

[NPK]

In today's Sunday Mail it shows the birth certificate of Fien's supposed grandmother..she would be 100 years old this year...that's pretty old for a 27 year old's grandmother. Seems a little sus.

 

[Coastal Shark]

In today's Sunday Mail it shows the birth certificate of Fien's supposed grandmother..she would be 100 years old this year...that's pretty old for a 27 year old's grandmother. Seems a little sus.

Maybe. Maybe not.

My grandfather turned 100 a couple of weeks ago and I've got a 30 year old sister.

 

[Ianc]

In today's Sunday Mail it shows the birth certificate of Fien's supposed grandmother..she would be 100 years old this year...that's pretty old for a 27 year old's grandmother. Seems a little sus.

If that's all the SM are going on then they are clutching at straws. My Granddad died this year at 102yrs of age & my cousin is 27.

 

[NPK]

If that's all the SM are going on then they are clutching at straws. My Granddad died this year at 102yrs of age & my cousin is 27.

This is the same article here:

http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,22049,20661069-5006066,00.html

The Fien's birth certificate

By David Riccio
October 29, 2006 12:00

THIS is the document that proves the International Rugby League eligibility rules are a farce - and it's the birth certificate adopted Kiwi Nathan Fien desperately tried to hide from the league world.
Controversy has raged over the authenticity of Fien's New Zealand heritage since he made himself available for the Kiwis' Tri-Nations squad. The Mt Isa-born 27-year-old was cleared to play for the Kiwis under the grandparent rule, with Fien claiming his grandmother was born in New Zealand.
He added that never would the name and birthdate of his grandmother be released. "I'm a Kiwi through and through,'' he declared. "I don't forget where I come from. It's made me the person I am today, but the way the rules are at the moment, (with) my heritage I qualify and that's the end of the story.''
But after a lengthy investigation, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal that Fien's alleged grandmother, Irene Lilian Maude-Lett, was born in 1906. If she were alive, Irene would have celebrated her 100th birthday in August.
Fien's connection with Irene, however, remains contentious after The Sunday Telegraph made more than 20 phone calls to a variety of people, including relatives in New Zealand and Australia, former girlfriends and school mates.
They gave almost the same answer. Not one of them had heard of Fien's grandmother Irene or of his supposed New Zealand heritage. Others tried desperately to pour cold water on the controversial subject. When we contacted Fien's uncle Ron, he abruptly hung up after saying: "That's a question that only Nathan should answer.''
Repeated calls to Fien's father, Arthur, and sister Kara went unanswered. Mysteriously, Cathy Martin, a Fien family friend said: "I don't know the Fiens.'' She then hung up. A former girlfriend of Fien's said: "He never mentioned having New Zealand relatives.''
Kapi Gipis, a schoolmate of Fien's from Blackheath and Thornburgh College, Charters Towers, said: "We played footy together and Nathan is as Aussie as they come. He never mentioned wanting to play for the Kiwis or having a grandmother from New Zealand. I was very surprised to see his name come up for the Kiwis on the TV before last week's game.''
ARL chief executive Geoff Carr, however, says he is powerless to investigate the Fien case any further. "There's not much more we can do. We can't DNA him,'' Carr said. "I can appreciate people questioning it because they're entitled to. But from our point of view, I'm really at a loss to know what else we can do.''
Carr added that The Sunday Telegraph's investigation of Fien had increased the ARL's awareness in ensuring eligibility rules were made more transparent in the future. "What we will be doing is taking more notice of a player's heritage when they start playing rep footy,'' Carr said.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

webby and fein didnt have a snowballs chance in hell of making the roos so the kiwis was the next best thing. looks good on the resume, international player, command a good price.

The funny thing about Webb is that if he hadn't made the decision to play for the Kiwis he probably would have got a shot with the Roos or Queensland in 05 or 06, most people who know what they are talking about would agree that he's at least as good a player as Hunt is these days. However back in 03 when he made the decision to represent the Kiwis he looked a long way off being a chance of a QLD jersy let alone a green and gold one so obviously at the time he thought the Kiwis were the best option. And hey maybe he actually felt that the Warriors and NZ had done enough for him to feel some loyalty towards NZ?

 

[Misty Bee]

Crap article from a crap paper. Harass an entire family and label one member a fraud, without proof. And if he was still playing for the Cowpats they would have applauded him like they would Caroll, Thorn et al.

Fein apparently has a 72 year difference in age from his gran. Dad is 81, has a 10yo grandson. My father in law is also 81, with a 4yo granddaughter. She might play for Australia one day on that connection, with the Pilipino version of the Sunday Mail going nuts to prove that Pop didn't exist!

F**king tripe!

 

[screeny]

Crap article from a crap paper. Harass an entire family and label one member a fraud, without proof. And if he was still playing for the Cowpats they would have applauded him like they would Caroll, Thorn et al.

Fein apparently has a 72 year difference in age from his gran. Dad is 81, has a 10yo grandson. My father in law is also 81, with a 4yo granddaughter. She might play for Australia one day on that connection, with the Pilipino version of the Sunday Mail going nuts to prove that Pop didn't exist!

F**king tripe!

Well said. That article is the farce, much more so than he admittedly shaky RL eligibility rule book.

No proof whatsoever. Just innuendo.

 

[douglasallen91]

i don't know where all my mates grandparents are born. geesh i am a bad mate.

 

[JJ]

apparently it's his great grandmother... not a good look for NZRL, and a liberal interpretation of the rules in my opinion...

 

[screeny]

apparently it's his great grandmother... not a good look for NZRL, and a liberal interpretation of the rules in my opinion...

If it's his great GM then NZ have broken the rules, brought the game into disrepute and should be penalised. Liberal interpretation doesn't come into it - NZ have cheated, plain and simple.

But there's no proof in that article.

 

[JJ]

If it's his great GM then NZ have broken the rules, brought the game into disrepute and should be penalised. Liberal interpretation doesn't come into it - NZ have cheated, plain and simple.

But there's no proof in that article.

Old Chairman Sel was on the radio this am verifying it is his great grandmother (at least that's the way I heard it - it was early and I hadn;t had my 1st coffee)... and defending the NRL - can't find a print source though...

leaves NZRL looking pretty smelly

as does the deabcle with the timing in the test...:shock:

 

[SpaceMonkey]

If she's his great grandmother he should be stood down immediately, rules are rules.