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National Rugby Competition - already in planning

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
Thomas don't you post on those other RL sites? Don't you divulge every misdemeanour of ever RL player etc on these sites?

So Australia has an under 21 schoolboy team-pretty old school boys.

I een a fair bit of union at the lower level in the last couple of years (my nephew was in Queensland squad) & my unbiding opinion is that there is not much talent there-especially when compared to RL, and especially in Queensland. Some of those players you mentioned are OK, but not worth walking accross wet grass to see.

Lets see how they go against top opposition.
 

Thomas

First Grade
Messages
9,658
russ13 said:
Thomas don't you post on those other RL sites? Don't you divulge every misdemeanour of ever RL player etc on these sites?

So Australia has an under 21 schoolboy team-pretty old school boys.

I een a fair bit of union at the lower level in the last couple of years (my nephew was in Queensland squad) & my unbiding opinion is that there is not much talent there-especially when compared to RL, and especially in Queensland. Some of those players you mentioned are OK, but not worth walking accross wet grass to see.

Lets see how they go against top opposition.

I don't know where I typed U21 Schoolboy team, perhaps you forgot to see the "and" between those two words.

And yes, I do post on a lot of RL sites, being a RL fan aren't I entitled to it? And I only highlight misdemeanours of RL players when RU-haters post about RU players' misdemeanours.....as I've said many times before, there are idiots in both codes.

We are going to have to agree to disagree about talent in Qld RU, as I would like to actually give these guys a chance before writing them off as you do.
 

rugged

Juniors
Messages
2,415
Well now they can take the talent from league anyway, especially the backs. :mrgreen: Not that they do, because they are always too late to get them straight out of school.
 

Moffo

Referee
Messages
23,986
Te Kaha said:
Moffo said:
They will never have the money long term. Just has no passion and sustainable interest. Who would seriously go cheer for the North Shore Bandicoots?

Come on lads, the waratahs netted the NSWRU a loss for years, there is no way a tier below it is going to work

Cheers,
Moffo

But then you said the World Cup would be a disaster without canybody going to the games.

Great answer
 

Marcus

Juniors
Messages
119
I think a national rugby comp can be a very successful competition. But I guess it all depends on whats happening on the renegotiation of the next Super 12 contract.

Personally, I believe an expanded Super .. is whats going to happen in the future. With the NZRFU restructuring the NPC, and the SARFU doing the same with the CC, its going to open up the Super.. to more games.

I reckon we will see a Super 15-18 in the future. This will mean more games thus more revenue for teams, and the season will last 18-22 weeks - making it an ideal length.

I think Australia could do with 2 extra sides, namely WA and Vic. We would then have 5 sides, and across the 5 cities there will be 10million people to hook up as fans.

Once the ARU has 5 sides a national competition isn't so neccessary then. In fact I would argue that 5 Super .. teams would be better for Australian rugby than a national comp. The competition has a good history, tough comp, great crowds, tv exposure, and its a money spinner.
 

rugged

Juniors
Messages
2,415
I reckon you make a good argument there Marcus, but unsure how the game would be taken up in WA and Vic, particularly as they would have difficulty winning (most of good players would want to stay in Sydney and Brisbane). Probably be less expensive than setting a national comp though and would be very good for the game in Australia :) .
 

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
For mine I would get rid of the South African teams & just have Super8 (later super 10) with the NZ sides.

Each season the competition would be a home & away (instead of the present round robin games) so their would it would be a 15 week season.

Might be able to have a mid season (or end of season)competition with the SA clubs after Super8/10 is finished.



Would it be feasible to get Wiakato to transfer to Melbourne or Perth?
 

eastsrule

Bench
Messages
4,301
russ13, you can't kick out South Africa. Sure they are SA Rugby is going through a bad phase, they have changed coaches and management and things could change. And you can't go about simply moving teams, Waikato have a supporter base and arguably the best facilitised stadium in the Super 12. Combine that wiht Waikato's NPC success their chance in Super 12 is very near.
 

Thomas

First Grade
Messages
9,658
I don't think the South Africans would like that Russ13. They will get better.

Would South Sydney relocate to Perth? or to the Gold Coast in an expanded NRL. I don't think so. Waikato has a long history as well, and they won't move at all.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
eastsrule said:
Waikato have a supporter base and arguably the best facilitised stadium in the Super 12.

Bolloks, The National Stadium in Wellington by far surpasses that dinky little Hamilton park.
 

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
As far as the SA teams go it is the time zone when the games are played that plays havoc with the TV audience. Also, I thought SA were looking to Europe (same time zone) & a more lucrative market.

Home & away makes for a fairer competition-14 game season btw.

Unfortunately for small towns like Hamilton the writing is on the wall. There is just no growth there. Nobody wants to play for them & they have been consisently the worst performers of the NZ teams both on the field & off the field in terms of crowds and sponsorship.


Cronulla & to a lesser extent Manly are finding this out in the NRL. At least Townsville in NQ has a large geographical area & a growing population base.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
I have to say you are consitent you never let the truth get in the way of your view of the world.....

russ13 said:
As far as the SA teams go it is the time zone when the games are played that plays havoc with the TV audience. Also, I thought SA were looking to Europe (same time zone) & a more lucrative market.
Again you are bringing up news storys fron two or three years ago. SA is fully behind the retention of SANZAR and the continuation of the Super 12.

russ13 said:
Home & away makes for a fairer competition-14 game season btw.
You are the only one who seems to care. Alternate year home games has worked well in NZ for almost a hundred years. It'd not likely to change because you don't like it.

russ13 said:
Unfortunately for small towns like Hamilton the writing is on the wall. There is just no growth there. Nobody wants to play for them & they have been consisently the worst performers of the NZ teams both on the field & off the field in terms of crowds and sponsorship.
Well since one current and one recent All Black have transfered there for this year your argument holds no water. Not to mention th Chiefs zone contains South Auckland where the Warriors are proving there is plenty of talent and is one of the fastest growing cities in NZ. You did know that Hamilton is less than two hours drive from there don't you?
While their crowds aren't up to the level of other teams their level of sponsership has been among the best. I have no idea why you made that lie up.
 

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
te kaka

I must admit I did say the Waikato team will not receive the same sponsorship at the more heavily populated areas of NZ or anywhere for that matter. (I have been there by the way-loved the place -reminds me of Toowooba in Queensland apart from the river & I have been to so of their games years ago)

Look at the other franchises NSW 7 million, Qld 4 million:

Look I wish them well-as I do all small areas. But what is their support base 100,000 -150,000.

The chiefs have no pulling power ourside their region.


Do you really say that home & away is not the best way to pay a competition. I mean this is not a novel suggestion.
 

Te Kaha

First Grade
Messages
5,998
russ13 said:
te kaka

I must admit I did say the Waikato team will not receive the same sponsorship at the more heavily populated areas of NZ or anywhere for that matter. (I have been there by the way-loved the place -reminds me of Toowooba in Queensland apart from the river & I have been to so of their games years ago)

Look at the other franchises NSW 7 million, Qld 4 million:

Look I wish them well-as I do all small areas. But what is their support base 100,000 -150,000.

The chiefs have no pulling power ourside their region.


Do you really say that home & away is not the best way to pay a competition. I mean this is not a novel suggestion.

When a stadia only holds 25K it doesn't matter if you live in a city that holds 50k or 250K. And as far as sponsoship goes you are thinking like an Australian League person trying to get little local Sponsors. The fact is most Super 12 sponsorship comes National or international companies. When you add to that that most of the players contract money comes form the NZRFU your point becomes moot.

As far as home and away goes it doesn't matter most Super 12 teams play at more than one home ground, The 'Canes have five to choose from. New Zealand isn't that big a country that you can't make it to an away game, besides if you can't win away games to don't deserve to win the comp.
 

Thomas

First Grade
Messages
9,658
Oh Russ, you don't wish them well. You hate RU with every bone in your body.

They have plenty of sponsers, check out the website at www.mooloo.co.nz A great website, with a large fanbase and 10,500 registered players in the Waikato region. They have been around since 1921 and have a proud tradition.
 

russ13

First Grade
Messages
6,824
Storm clouds hang over SANZAR: Luyt
By Chris Miriams and De Jongh Borchardt
Tuesday, February 10, 2004


A nightmare scenario has emerged for southern hemisphere rugby with a suggestion News Corporation may not renew SANZAR's lucrative broadcasting contract.

That chilling prospect comes as England emerges as the game's new power base and is delivered by Louis Luyt, the man who negotiated the original $NZ555 million 10-year deal in 1995.

Dumped from power in 1998, the former head of the South African Rugby Union is rumoured to have re-emerged as a powerful behind-the-scenes presence.

While many rugby bosses are preparing for a reduced News Ltd contract Luyt is unconvinced SANZAR has the ability to cut any deal.

He believes the three-country collective - South Africa, New Zealand, Australia - does not have an experienced hard-nosed negotiator, is struggling to come up with a unique product to offer News Corp and the degenerating state of South African rugby is devaluing SANZAR's worth to the broadcaster.


He pointed to News Corp relinquishing rights to the Six Nations in Europe to back his claim rugby was not an essential product for the Rupert Murdoch-owned empire.

Underlining the cooling of interest in rugby rights, Australia has no Super 12 on free-to-air TV after Channel 7 dumped the rights.

"One has to be very worried that News Corp doesn't decide to take its money elsewhere, use that money in another sport and get the same or better result," Luyt said.

If Luyt's scenario proves correct the effect on New Zealand rugby will be catastrophic. At risk are competitions, school programmes, women's rugby, academies and player salaries. The worst scenario is professional rugby here is reduced to a paid All Black squad.

Luyt said there was more to the negotiations than what SANZAR will get out of them.

"He (Murdoch) has to accept it (rugby) first. If he doesn't, is there an alternative? Is there someone else in the wings? This is the type of thinking you have to have in these types of negotiations.

"I always put myself on the other side. What would I do if I were News Corp? I would ask 'Can I do better with my money?' Then, unless the people on the other side of the table offer something that is interesting, fresh and hits you between the eyes and makes you say 'Yes this could work', there's trouble."

Luyt is sceptical SANZAR can do that. He scoffed at suggestions of extra Super 12 franchises in Japan and Argentina, a line New Zealand is touting.

Another idea was to add northern hemisphere teams to the Tri-Nations but that could be ruled out by travel fatigue and bad time zones for television audiences.

"There must be a new competition. People seem to think putting new teams in is an answer. It's not. There has to be new thinking or else it is dead in the water. We have to sell our competitions to Europe and make ends meet and he (Murdoch) has to do the same.

"o they (northern hemisphere) watch this (Super 12 and Tri-Nations) any more? I don't think so. We have to devise something fresh. Novel. New. Without that I am very pessimistic."

Because of exchange rate fluctuations the New Zealand Rugby Union is already facing a $NZ20m shortfall if SANZAR is able to secure a contract anywhere near the current level of funding.

Meanwhile, Luyt said the spiralling crisis in South African rugby was devaluing SANZAR.

The game there has been blighted by racial problems, the dumping of Springbok coach Rudolf Straueli and chief executive Rian Oberholzer, and missing money. The latest episode came on Thursday when the professional and amateur codes were merged together amid much rancour.

There was, Luyt said, no end in sight to the continuing dramas.

It meant South African rugby's new president, Brian van Rooyen, 41, could offer nothing more than empty platitudes to the SANZAR board when it met in Wellington on Friday.

"I can't see how he (van Rooyen) can go there (SANZAR board meeting) with any constructive hope," Luyt said.

Luyt can do what he wants, but Nick Mallett will not become the next Springbok coach.

Brian van Rooyen, prsident of the South African Rugby Football Union (SARFU) confirmed on Sunday that Mallett had at no stage been considered as Rudolf Straeuli's successor.

Luyt, in an open letter to the Sunday Independent newspaper, said that Mallett should have been appointed as Bok coach after Straeuli resigned at the end of last year.

The ex-rugby boss decided to withdraw his suppport for the new president because he believed Van Rooyen was acting unconstitutionally by announcing certain changes to the rugby landscape.

Luyt called Van Rooyen "a dictator" and an "embarrassment". He added that South African rugby is currently "hopeless, rudderless and completely lost".

"I am not going to comment on Dr Luyt's remarks. He is entitled to his opinion," said Van Rooyen, who added that he "knew the constitution".

"I wanted to help Brian, I swear I wanted to, and I warned him not to make any promises if he were to be elected to the SARFU presidency," Luyt said on Sunday. "He had never before run a large rugby organisation and he needed help. But I couldn't go along with such decisions, I'm sorry."

Van Rooyen, who attended a SANZAR meeting this weekend in Wellington, New Zealand, said a SANZAR task force is working full steam to prepare a submission to Newscorp on March 2.

"To some extent he has a point, but the three members of SANZAR have pledged one another full support," Van Rooyen said. "Australia and New Zealand have also gone through difficult times and we'll stand together."

The Luyt remarks, made in the week that will see the announcement of the new Bok coach, are only the latest in a couple of rough weeks on the rugby scene of late.

Two of SA Rugby's independent members of the board of directors, Morne du Plessis and Alwyn Martin, resigned last week because they felt that the company's powers had been limited by Van Rooyen.

The KwaZulu Natal Rugby Union also this week expressed its dissatisfaction with Van Rooyen's plans for the new structure of the Super 12 and Currie Cup competitions.

The CEOs of the three other 'big unions' - the Blue Bulls, the Lions and the Western Province - apparently want to join Natal in discussions with Van Rooyen about the practical implications. The fee they are expected to pay for the Super 12 rights is around R3m to 5m.

Free State, traditionally one of the stronger provincial unions, is also in the dark about its future. An "international competition", which may include teams from Fiji, Samoa and Argentina, is on the cards for the Free State and two other provinces.

The far-reaching changes announced by the Souith African Rugby Footbal Union (SARFU) last week, will be ratified at a special general meeting to be held soon.

This was announced by SARFU president Brian van Rooyen after returning from Wellington, New Zealand, on Sunday, where he attended a SANZAR meeting.

"A task team, consisting of Barend van Graan, Brian van Zyl, Louis du Plessis and Johan Prinsloo, handed in a submission at our bosberaad last weekend," Van Rooyen said.

"They proposed that the Super 12 be awarded to the four metropolitan unions and that the Currie Cup competition be played on the basis of strenth versus strength.

"Obviously, the smaller unions also had access to these proposals and we decided to let all 14 unions play in the competition. The details will be worked out later," Van Rooyen said.

According to the SARFU president, the proposals were considered by a full meeting of the union's exeutive committee.

The committee gave the mandate for a special general meeting, at which the SARFU constitution is expected to be ratified. The meeting has to be held within 21 days.

"I accept full responsibility for what happens. But I don't take the decisions. I simply lead the 14 presidents," Van Rooyen said.

"At the meeting of the executive committee, I asked each of the provincial presidents whether he was satisfied with the decisions and all of them agreed."

"Harold Verster of Free State did have reservations, but it was decided that the interests of all would be taken care of. "At the SANZAR meeting, we recommended that South Africa be awarded a fifth Super 12 team. If that does not happen, we asked that an international competition be held at the same time as the Super 12.

"The task force found that roughly 70 per cent of South African rugby players are black, and I have to see to it that these players, most of them from Border and Eastern Province, are given the opportunity to play at a higher level."

Van Rooyen expressed his disappointment that the Sharks had not ensured that a sufficient number of Border and Eastern Province players were incorporated into their squad.

"Rugby belongs to all the people in KwaZulu-Natal and the rest of the region. I have the right to ensure the continued existence of Border and Eastern Province," Van Rooyen said.

The Sunday Star-Times, New Zealand and Beeld, South Africa


This story was found at: http://rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/09/1076175103200.html
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

In the year and a bit since the last post was made, has anyone heard a thing about this?
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
eastsrule said:
And 2007 is the year of the next Rugby World Cup...

I still don't believe by 2007 there will be a total League World Cup.

And I thought the NRL was going to be 'destroyed' by Roosters 'arrogance and want to monopolise the talent pools'

The League circles are divided.

No because there will be a rugby league world cup in 2008 not 2007,and it will cover both Oz and NZ.
rugby league in oz has never been stronger than it is now,both crowds and juniors and TV ratings on Pay and FTA>
 

Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,281
taipan said:
eastsrule said:
And 2007 is the year of the next Rugby World Cup...

I still don't believe by 2007 there will be a total League World Cup.

And I thought the NRL was going to be 'destroyed' by Roosters 'arrogance and want to monopolise the talent pools'

The League circles are divided.

No because there will be a rugby league world cup in 2008 not 2007,and it will cover both Oz and NZ.
rugby league in oz has never been stronger than it is now,both crowds and juniors and TV ratings on Pay and FTA>

Your point is what? I assume you don't know anything about the National Club Comp.?
 

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