New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[BuffaloRules]

Parking any decision on team 20 for now is the logical thing to do. They have their hands full with two new clubs for the next 5 years. Hopefully come the following tv deal club 20 options will be looked at then.

Yes …I’ve said the same …

These two teams coming in 12 months apart will be major challenges to oversee , particularly PNG.

It is a shame though that they haven’t been able to take advantage of the spike in popularity that the game in NZ is seemingly going through … there will be no guarantees that will still be the case in 5-6 years time …

We both know there are also no guarantees for Team 20 either … Ikin is a crafty so and so …I think there will be a big push for Ipswich …

I’m particularly interested in seeing what happens to the NZ TV rights with this deal … you would think DAZN might be interested in acquiring those rights on the back of the Aust rights if they are also successful with those …

 

[LightLizard]

I guess the NRl wants to see tangibles for the club not just the owner. I mean Twiggy Forest is a billionaire but you wouldnt say the Force are a billion $ club. They also seem to be leaning heavily into ownership of start ups themselves so again would likely expect investment from Govt rather than private backers.

Parking any decision on team 20 for now is the logical thing to do. They have their hands full with two new clubs for the next 5 years. Hopefully come the following tv deal club 20 options will be looked at then.

If "having their hands full with x 2 new clubs" is right ... then ... why did they say "we will have x 20 clubs for the next broadcasting deal ready to go 2027-2028" meaning PNG - PERTH - AND a third team. That was just 18mths ago.. ??

 

[BuffaloRules]

If "having their hands full with x 2 new clubs" is right ... then ... why did they say "we will have x 20 clubs for the next broadcasting deal ready to go 2027-2028" meaning PNG - PERTH - AND a third team. That was just 18mths ago.. ??

Since they said that, they went through an expansion process in the past 12 months … and from what they have said, none of the bids received from NZ were suitable…

If you are suggesting there were other parties around that should have come forward, than that is even more disappointing as they have now missed there chance for 5 years it seems

 

[Perth Red]

If "having their hands full with x 2 new clubs" is right ... then ... why did they say "we will have x 20 clubs for the next broadcasting deal ready to go 2027-2028" meaning PNG - PERTH - AND a third team. That was just 18mths ago.. ??

My feeling it was a big fishing exercise. Maybe if there had been a NZ bid that had totally blown their socks off they may have been looking at 20 sooner but I suspect it was never a reality, and my feeling is Perth was being looked at as a back up if PNG fell over. Just that the Bears momentum and WA govt cash has meant Perth and PNG are happening together now.

Like mentioned the next NZ tv deal may play a part yet, though it was never likely club 20 was coming in before the following deal started in likely 2032.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

The guys who were saying nz shouldn’t get a second side bc the state of nz juniors was poor and declining really has no idea what he was talking about

The warriors under 17 side winning back to back premierships against the best Australian juniors is proof

You have to wade through so much bs by people that claim they know what’s going on when really just don’t like seeing rugby league doing so well in New Zealand

They all seem to have disappeared as RL has grown stronger and stronger in NZ

 

[Wb1234]

They all seem to have disappeared as RL has grown stronger and stronger in NZ

One of them messaged me on Tik Tok he’s getting upset over things you and gobs have written on here

Total fruitloop

 

[Matiunz]

I’m wondering on what basis NZ2 is getting overlooked? On the surface there looks to be some compelling reasons for inclusion but I guess there are some also some serious flaws for the NRL to seemingly snub it to the point of next to no mention.

Surely if the NRL were ever serious about going there you would think it’d be in their interest to assist the bid(s) in getting up to standard but they appear to be just tossed aside.

couple of ‘conspiracies’ - was it just about the money?
Does the NRL not trust NZ systems with the development of players? Would it rather those players continue to be developed in Aus systems and prop up Aus sides? Will this flow slow down if players have more options to stay in NZ? Harold Matt’s being held up as a symbol of strength in juniors- sure it’s fantastic but the raw materials have always been there from the very first reserve graders through to under 20s dominance but we need to see that translating through to first grade, I hope it’s different this time but so far the talent hasn’t translated to SG ball or Jersey fleg.
In summary think we’ve been sold a bit of a carrot to increase engagement that the NRL was unlikely to follow through on- heard this ‘matter of time’ rhetoric without delivery for too long now.

 

[Perth Red]

I’m wondering on what basis NZ2 is getting overlooked? On the surface there looks to be some compelling reasons for inclusion but I guess there are some also some serious flaws for the NRL to seemingly snub it to the point of next to no mention.

Surely if the NRL were ever serious about going there you would think it’d be in their interest to assist the bid(s) in getting up to standard but they appear to be just tossed aside.

couple of ‘conspiracies’ - was it just about the money?
Does the NRL not trust NZ systems with the development of players? Would it rather those players continue to be developed in Aus systems and prop up Aus sides? Will this flow slow down if players have more options to stay in NZ? Harold Matt’s being held up as a symbol of strength in juniors- sure it’s fantastic but the raw materials have always been there from the very first reserve graders through to under 20s dominance but we need to see that translating through to first grade, I hope it’s different this time but so far the talent hasn’t translated to SG ball or Jersey fleg.
In summary think we’ve been sold a bit of a carrot to increase engagement that the NRL was unlikely to follow through on- heard this ‘matter of time’ rhetoric without delivery for too long now.

It could just be as simple as NRL dont need to commit to anything until near the date. Dolphins and Perth 18 month lead in, PNG a 2.5 year lead in.
As the 20th club wont likely be coming in until 2033 there is no need to make any decisions now. Probably wont be looked at until 2030 unless something dramatic happens. The positive is with 19 teams we know a 20th one will be needed eventually.

 

[Wb1234]

I’m wondering on what basis NZ2 is getting overlooked? On the surface there looks to be some compelling reasons for inclusion but I guess there are some also some serious flaws for the NRL to seemingly snub it to the point of next to no mention.

Surely if the NRL were ever serious about going there you would think it’d be in their interest to assist the bid(s) in getting up to standard but they appear to be just tossed aside.

couple of ‘conspiracies’ - was it just about the money?
Does the NRL not trust NZ systems with the development of players? Would it rather those players continue to be developed in Aus systems and prop up Aus sides? Will this flow slow down if players have more options to stay in NZ? Harold Matt’s being held up as a symbol of strength in juniors- sure it’s fantastic but the raw materials have always been there from the very first reserve graders through to under 20s dominance but we need to see that translating through to first grade, I hope it’s different this time but so far the talent hasn’t translated to SG ball or Jersey fleg.
In summary think we’ve been sold a bit of a carrot to increase engagement that the NRL was unlikely to follow through on- heard this ‘matter of time’ rhetoric without delivery for too long now.

PNG and Perth took too long to sort out

Clubs may also have pushed back on moving to fast

This year will be spent sorting out the tv deal

Then there’s the club grant and salary cap to sort out

Pvl probably himself is a bit tired and wants things to sit for a year or so

They could easily decide to approve an nrl team in chch and delay its start date

Once the tv deal is sorted out together with the salary cap and club grants then that’s when they will be looking at team 20

The nrl still talks about a 20 team comp

 

[Canard]

Jv with a developer for the units. That’s probably close to a billion profit right there.

They could even do it on their own

Who knows maybe the arl would invest to cover part of it

But their leagues club couldn’t fund it on their own even with their pokie turnover

45k roofed stadium would be a game changer for the dogs and western Sydney and rugby league

You are one cooked unit.

You would have to make between $800 to $1M PROFIT on each unit (1150 of them) to fund a $800M to $1B stadium.

That's just the iniatial construction cost, who is funding the on-going maintenance and deprecation?

Sydney and Brisbane don't need a roofed stadium, the climate is too mild.

 

[BuffaloRules]

PNG and Perth took too long to sort out

Clubs may also have pushed back on moving to fast

This year will be spent sorting out the tv deal

Then there’s the club grant and salary cap to sort out

Pvl probably himself is a bit tired and wants things to sit for a year or so

They could easily decide to approve an nrl team in chch and delay its start date

Once the tv deal is sorted out together with the salary cap and club grants then that’s when they will be looking at team 20

The nrl still talks about a 20 team comp

Firstly - I agree that they have really taken too long to bring Perth in …. And now they are going to rush it through in 18 months and bring in two new teams in consecutive years which will put a strain on player salaries …. I think ideally they should have had Perth in for 2026 and PNG in for 2028 … spread it out a bit more ..they should have had the Perth process started some time earlier

In relation to Team 20 … there is not really any point in announcing the team now and having them wait for 5 years before they bring them in … probably better off parking it until 2030… hopefully by then a compelling bid arises in NZ

 

[BuffaloRules]

 

[Matiunz]

Shit that’s telling from Abdo- pretty clear it’s not happening - at least any time soon, he couldn’t even do the diplomatic ‘maybe’
Other part of concern is the Kea bid believing they’re in a strong position and NRL see it the opposite way- doesn’t show a lot of collaboration to get them ready or ‘show what good looks like’

 

[BuffaloRules]

Shit that’s telling from Abdo- pretty clear it’s not happening - at least any time soon, he couldn’t even do the diplomatic ‘maybe’
Other part of concern is the Kea bid believing they’re in a strong position and NRL see it the opposite way- doesn’t show a lot of collaboration to get them ready or ‘show what good looks like’

I can’t say it’s really news to me to be honest … we have known since October that they do not have what they think is a credible bid, nor anyone that they really believe is prepared to put up the money for a COE and Junior Development that they seem to believe is required .., until that happens NZ2 isn’t even at the starting line

 

[Canard]

I’m wondering on what basis NZ2 is getting overlooked? On the surface there looks to be some compelling reasons for inclusion but I guess there are some also some serious flaws for the NRL to seemingly snub it to the point of next to no mention.

Surely if the NRL were ever serious about going there you would think it’d be in their interest to assist the bid(s) in getting up to standard but they appear to be just tossed aside.

couple of ‘conspiracies’ - was it just about the money?
Does the NRL not trust NZ systems with the development of players? Would it rather those players continue to be developed in Aus systems and prop up Aus sides? Will this flow slow down if players have more options to stay in NZ? Harold Matt’s being held up as a symbol of strength in juniors- sure it’s fantastic but the raw materials have always been there from the very first reserve graders through to under 20s dominance but we need to see that translating through to first grade, I hope it’s different this time but so far the talent hasn’t translated to SG ball or Jersey fleg.
In summary think we’ve been sold a bit of a carrot to increase engagement that the NRL was unlikely to follow through on- heard this ‘matter of time’ rhetoric without delivery for too long now.

I assume there is no credible funding or finanical model behind any of the bids. There was also some very questionable individuals involved in some (Moffet and Searle).

Im hoping against hope, that PNG dies on the vine, and NZ2 comes to the rescue.

Lets be honest, WA and NZ would be our next expansion teams if Geopolitics wasn't a thing.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Shit that’s telling from Abdo- pretty clear it’s not happening - at least any time soon, he couldn’t even do the diplomatic ‘maybe’
Other part of concern is the Kea bid believing they’re in a strong position and NRL see it the opposite way- doesn’t show a lot of collaboration to get them ready or ‘show what good looks like’

We don't need them entertaining NZ before even confirming Perth. Then there's PNG and Perth need to get on the park first.. then might be a good time to start talking NZ2.
I understand him squashing any talk to avoid answering speculative questions for the next 3 years, that's just a waste of time .

 

[BuffaloRules]

I understand him squashing any talk to avoid answering speculative questions for the next 3 years, that's just a waste of time .

Exactly …It makes sense to just park the discussion until 2030 if they aren’t going to entertain them until 2033 at the earliest …

 

[LightLizard]

I can’t say it’s really news to me to be honest … we have known since October that they do not have what they think is a credible bid, nor anyone that they really believe is prepared to put up the money for a COE and Junior Development that they seem to believe is required .., until that happens NZ2 isn’t even at the starting line

In answer to the above; ^^^^ - it's all a bit moot now though
Lowe and Chambers (Orcas) said publicly - AFTER they had been rejected - that they put an updated proposal to the ARLC - that included:
To pay ANY license fee the ARLC require - they were setting up x 25 regional sports academies throughout the South Island and in Wellington. And they had started that process - as well as schools. - the Roosters and Bulldogs have already taken at least two schools from us.
The Stadium is there now. opens in 10 mths
The Hotel - Restaurant and offices are there now - OWNED by the backers...
A $20ml COE - the land HAD ALREADY been resourced for it's building. (won't go ahead now)
They had had talks with a CURRANT NRL coach and been in talks with back room staff. Publicly stated.
They had backers in place for this to be TOTALLY FINANCED - don't know where you get the info from about no-one prepared to back it. They have repeatedly said: they have / had the backers (Publicly) so I'm assuming this would have been told to the ARCL ( REMEMBERING - this was the UPDATED after rejection bid) again - all moot now.
This was all during the time when ARLC said x 3 teams were in the mix to make it 20 teams - before that suddenly vanished.
but hey - buy the SL - extend Vegas - do the geo-politics - who needs NZ2.

 

[BuffaloRules]

In answer to the above; ^^^^ - it's all a bit moot now though
Lowe and Chambers (Orcas) said publicly - AFTER they had been rejected - that they put an updated proposal to the ARLC - that included:
To pay ANY license fee the ARLC require - they were setting up x 25 regional sports academies throughout the South Island and in Wellington. And they had started that process - as well as schools. - the Roosters and Bulldogs have already taken at least two schools from us.
The Stadium is there now. opens in 10 mths
The Hotel - Restaurant and offices are there now - OWNED by the backers...
A $20ml COE - the land HAD ALREADY been resourced for it's building. (won't go ahead now)
They had had talks with a CURRANT NRL coach and been in talks with back room staff. Publicly stated.
They had backers in place for this to be TOTALLY FINANCED - don't know where you get the info from about no-one prepared to back it. They have repeatedly said: they have / had the backers (Publicly) so I'm assuming this would have been told to the ARCL ( REMEMBERING - this was the UPDATED after rejection bid) again - all moot now.
but hey - buy the SL - extend Vegas - do the geo-politics - who needs NZ2.

Mate .., are you going off media reports about these unknown backers or do you have other info ?
Also, do you accept the NRL is going to have a lot more info around the financials of the bids and their supporters than we do ?

who was funding the building and equipment for the CEO?

 

[Wb1234]

That’s good to see nrl clubs going into schools now

Grow the game and doesn’t cost the nrl a cent

The sooner nz juniors get into league pathways the better and stop learning bad habits or useless skills from union

Focus more on core elements of the game ie catching passing running kicking and tackling