New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Wb1234]

Huh? No one has specified a cut off time or date. The popularity of league ebbs and flows in NZ and has since before the Warriors and will continue even if we get a NZ2. It is strong at the moment from a pro game point of view, but not at a domestic level.

If you want to use 1994 as a date of significance then yes domestic league was much stronger in the area we're from. Hawkes Bay had a team in the Lion Red Cup national competition and the club game was in better health than now with more teams (not overrun with gangs) at senior and school level.


Yes. Where are the kids who get excited by the Warriors going to play if there's no local league? A kid in Oz can watch the NRL, go along to the local club with his old man, then join a junior team - that's not how it is in NZ at the moment.

It's not zero sum, it's not professional or domestic, for league to be successful in NZ you need both. The argument is not for a NZ league to replace the Warriors, but to fix the problems with the domestic game.


The number of teenage males playing increased this year. Rugby and league have been losing players to other sports/interests for years - but the base is much bigger in rugby than league.

Perth red would be proud of those mental gymnastics

The numbers are still down

Kids don’t want to play rugby of either code or in less numbers

The Auckland rugby league and mzrl aren’t going to start spending tens of millions more on the local game they haven’t got the money

The arl increased its grant to the nzrl and also guaranteed two home tests a year in nz for the nzrl to make money off

You would think a second nz nrl side will achieve way more for rugby league than trying to prop up the domestic game

The bartercard cup and the lion red cup both led to large financial losses that would suggest it’s not a viable competition

 

[Wb1234]

Brisbane has a thriving lower grade league scene, you're making up an argument yourself if you claim we're discussing crowd numbers solely when referring to the domestic game.

It’s a feeder league

And it’s funded from the qrl share of origin

Take that money away and it collapses tomorrow it’s not viable either since the broncos and other qld nrl clubs came in

Same for the nswrl it’s not viable anymore without origin money and leagues clubs

 

[Canard]

Crowds for the Brisbane rugby league clubs collapsed after the broncos were admitted to the arl and have continued falling

Therefore rugby league in Brisbane is struggling

Did I do it right ?

See, only you are arguing that crowds are the sole criteria to judge whether the game is strong or not.

 

[Canard]

The comp in nz declined like the brl declined

All the interest gravitates to the elite level

The exact same thing about with super rugby and the npc

And the issue of declining juniors is a bigger problem in rugby union

You are arguing that we should only focus on the top tier and ignore all the rest.

And that, frankly is f**king idiotic

 

[Dark Corner]

PVL please can you announce a team for Christchurch so we can but this thread out of it's misery.

 

[BuffaloRules]

The number of teenage males playing increased this year. Rugby and league have been losing players to other sports/interests for years - but the base is much bigger in rugby than league.

Great …the second NZ NRL team has access to this pool of juniors from Rugby then … that’s one advantage they have over Australian teams …

let Rugby do the bulk entry level development work , then have the NRL team pick the eyes out of it ..this doesnt mean that you exclusively do this and not try to develop your own juniors at the same time

 

[Wb1234]

Great …the second NZ NRL team has access to this pool get juniors from Rugby then … that’s one advantage they have over Australian teams …

let Rugby to the bulk entry level development work , then have the NRL team pick the eyes out of it ..

Exactly

Union spends tens of millions on the junior system then nz2 can pick the eyes out of it at no cost and put them in the under 16s and up

 

[Matua]

It’s a feeder league

And it’s funded from the qrl share of origin

Take that money away and it collapses tomorrow it’s not viable either since the broncos and other qld nrl clubs came in

Same for the nswrl it’s not viable anymore without origin money and leagues clubs

I said thriving scene, not one particular competition. It's not about the Qld Cup on it's own. It's about opportunities for people to play league across different levels.

Where do you think players come from that eventually make it through to your beloved pro comp? They have come from the lower grades.

 

[Matua]

Great …the second NZ NRL team has access to this pool of juniors from Rugby then … that’s one advantage they have over Australian teams …

let Rugby do the bulk entry level development work , then have the NRL team pick the eyes out of it ..this doesnt mean that you exclusively do this and not try to develop your own juniors at the same time

I said in the first few pages of this thread that the Warriors and NZ2 should leave players in the school rugby comps for the professionalism/training standards/standard of competition etc. The danger then is losing league players to rugby at a pro level.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Exactly

Union spends tens of millions on the junior system then nz2 can pick the eyes out of it at no cost and put them in the under 16s and up

yes .. not exclusively , but in addition to their attempts to grow their own League junior numbers …

If you want to wait for these juniorsnumbers to be “thriving “ before you expand the elite teams in NZ, that day may never come

 

[Matua]

yes .. not exclusively , but in addition to their attempts to grow their own League junior numbers …

If you want to wait for these juniorsnumbers to be “thriving “ before you expand the elite teams in NZ, that day may never come

That's a strawman, no one has said that.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I said in the first few pages of this thread that the Warriors and NZ2 should leave players in the school rugby comps for the professionalism/training standards/standard of competition etc. The danger then is losing league players to rugby at a pro level.

Or they could play both sports maybe …the Warriors and the 2nd team is likely to have deep pockets , and they don’t need to fund the numbers that Rugby does …. If they are each getting a dozen elite 16-18 yr olds prospects from Rugby each year ….thats probably enough right ?

 

[BuffaloRules]

That's a strawman, no one has said that.

Ok - im saying it then

 

[Matua]

Ok - im saying it then

Why, so you can argue with yourself?

 

[BuffaloRules]

Why, so you can argue with yourself?

I wouldn’t describe my statement in those terms.

 

[Matua]

Or they could play both sports maybe …the Warriors and the 2nd team is likely to have deep pockets , and they don’t need to fund the numbers that Rugby does …. If they are each getting a dozen elite 16-18 yr olds prospects from Rugby each year ….thats probably enough right ?

Not if the aim is to deal a massive blow to NZ rugby as stated in the thread title.

Also, for the most part league isn't poaching away the best talent from rugby. It's mostly junior league guys who go to a rugby school at high school level because there aren't many league schools (which as I said is probably the best thing for league players to do).

League gets some good ones from rugby - Mannering and Harris were two (oddly they were backs in rugby) who transitioned at the end of high school, but neither of those two were elite rugby players. NAS might have been an elite rugby player, so he could fit the bill.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Not if the aim is to deal a massive blow to NZ rugby as stated in the thread title.

Also, for the most part league isn't poaching away the best talent from rugby. It's mostly junior league guys who go to a rugby school at high school level because there aren't many league schools (which as I said is probably the best thing for league players to do).

League gets some good ones from rugby - Mannering and Harris were two (oddly they were backs in rugby) who transitioned at the end of high school, but neither of those two were elite rugby players. NAS might have been an elite rugby player, so he could fit the bill.

Continued growth of the game in NZ both in producing playing talent and at the elite level is all I’m interested in … I’ll leave the pissing contest for others to argue and you to defend ..

 

[Matua]

Continued growth of the game in NZ both in producing playing talent and at the elite level is all I’m interested in … I’ll leave the pissing contest for others to argue and you to defend ..

This is what the "pissing contest" is about, others only care about the elite level.

 

[BuffaloRules]

This is what the "pissing contest" is about, others only care about the elite level.

The pissing contest in the thread title is about League overtaking Union in NZ … this is not what I’m interested in …

This is an Expansion sub forum , and my interest is in how a second Nz team can grow both the elite game and the playing talent over there

Doubling the amount of opportunities for young rep players in NZ league can only be a positive thing right , even if the second team might have to try and get a number of these from Rugby each year…at least initially

 

[Wb1234]

Not if the aim is to deal a massive blow to NZ rugby as stated in the thread title.

Also, for the most part league isn't poaching away the best talent from rugby. It's mostly junior league guys who go to a rugby school at high school level because there aren't many league schools (which as I said is probably the best thing for league players to do).

League gets some good ones from rugby - Mannering and Harris were two (oddly they were backs in rugby) who transitioned at the end of high school, but neither of those two were elite rugby players. NAS might have been an elite rugby player, so he could fit the bill.

Ok we should rename the thread title nz2 will make a huge dent in union

lol