New Zealand dominance of rugby league paving way for second Kiwi team in NRL

[SpaceMonkey]

Sharks have the same colours as the Orcas bid and a marine creature mascot. Play in a mostly black jersey in NZ and a mostly blue jersey in Australia.

Would work provided that the Warriors reverted to Auckland colours (navy & white)

 

[Usain Bolt]

give a team to Terry Serepisos

 

[Wilson1]

The problem right now is certainly not a lack of talent. We have plenty of players who are of NRL quality. The problem is that other cities actually have bids on the table but in New Zealand all we have is speculation. I live in Wellington but I think Christchurch would be the best place for a new team as they only have a professional rugby team whereas in Wellington we have the Phoenix. Still though, it is easy to over estimate the Warriors success. They are in the biggest league area of New Zealand but they do not get massive crowds and are not that successful on the field.

 

[Perth Red]

I'd like the Warriors stay successful and having a second NZ side now could hamper that right now. It'd be much better to have a Warriors side that sits towards the top of the table every year than two NZ sides who sit mid table or lower. But in a few years time if the Warriors keep doing what they're doing then yes of course.

The only two areas that would be any chance of dilution would be corporate support and /or jnr players. Now it seems to me that there are more than enough kiwi players to put two competitve teams together in NZ (it might mean Australian teams not relying on Kiwis but then maybe we would develop the game across Australia?). Corporate support I do not know about, is there enough companies in NZ to back two NRL teams?

 

[Eels Dude]

The only two areas that would be any chance of dilution would be corporate support and /or jnr players. Now it seems to me that there are more than enough kiwi players to put two competitve teams together in NZ (it might mean Australian teams not relying on Kiwis but then maybe we would develop the game across Australia?). Corporate support I do not know about, is there enough companies in NZ to back two NRL teams?

Agreed. But a lot of Kiwi players were actually born in Australia, or moved here with their families at a very young age and went through the junior systems here and that's why they're playing for Sydney clubs even though they represent New Zealand internationally. Aussie clubs headhunting might occur in some cases but players like Ben Roberts, Frank Pritchard, Kris Inu etc all came through the Sydney junior ranks. Whether there's enough players who come through the juniors ranks in NZ to fill two clubs is what I was questioning.

 

[Perth Red]

Agreed. But a lot of Kiwi players were actually born in Australia, or moved here with their families at a very young age and went through the junior systems here and that's why they're playing for Sydney clubs even though they represent New Zealand internationally. Aussie clubs headhunting might occur in some cases but players like Ben Roberts, Frank Pritchard, Kris Inu etc all came through the Sydney junior ranks. Whether there's enough players who come through the juniors ranks in NZ to fill two clubs is what I was questioning.

I have heard of talented kids who come over at 14 or 15 in the hope of getting seen by an NRL team. Not sure if this is true or in what numbers but it is these kids that would benefit the most from having another NRL team to aim for. Benji Marshall would be a good example of this.

He went to school at Whakatane Intermediate.[9] The eldest of three brothers, he was offered a scholarship to play for a high school in the Gold Coast, Queensland when he was 16. While attending Keebra Park Secondary High School, Marshall played for the Australian Schoolboys team in 2003
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benji_Marshall

The other positive is that you will see jnr RU players move over to RL in the Wellington/Sth Island regions if they have stronger direct pathways to a professional contract. We saw it in the first year of our SG ball team, we were able to offer Curtis Rona (WARU jnr) a chance to put himself in the NRL shop window so he moved over to RL and was signed up by the Roosters.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

The new poker machine laws though might force a couple Sydney teams to relocate so it could be a positive for NZ. A team like the Bulldogs are wedged between Balmain and Western Suburbs their catchment area isn't that big even though they are healthy from a financially perspective. And considering they are such a beloved club with rich history I think the Dogs could still retain it's Sydney supporters based in Christchurch as they'll play in Sydney about 8 times a year. Not saying the Dogs should look to relocate because they need to just saying that it could be good for business If they were to become the big dogs in a one team town and they could retain the name Canterbury Bulldogs.

 

[bender]

The new poker machine laws though might force a couple Sydney teams to relocate so it could be a positive for NZ. A team like the Bulldogs are wedged between Balmain and Western Suburbs their catchment area isn't that big even though they are healthy from a financially perspective. And considering they are such a beloved club with rich history I think the Dogs could still retain it's Sydney supporters based in Christchurch as they'll play in Sydney about 8 times a year. Not saying the Dogs should look to relocate because they need to just saying that it could be good for business If they were to become the big dogs in a one team town and they could retain the name Canterbury Bulldogs.

I would love to see Canterbury Bulldogs playing out of Christchurch with a couple of home games in Sydney. It is a perfect match for the name.

Unfortunatly, as with South Australian Rabbitohs, Sunshine Coast or Central Coast Sea Eagles, Wellington Sharks, their supporters dont really seem to agree with me.

 

[Eels Dude]

The new poker machine laws though might force a couple Sydney teams to relocate so it could be a positive for NZ. A team like the Bulldogs are wedged between Balmain and Western Suburbs their catchment area isn't that big even though they are healthy from a financially perspective. And considering they are such a beloved club with rich history I think the Dogs could still retain it's Sydney supporters based in Christchurch as they'll play in Sydney about 8 times a year. Not saying the Dogs should look to relocate because they need to just saying that it could be good for business If they were to become the big dogs in a one team town and they could retain the name Canterbury Bulldogs.

There's no way the Bulldogs will relocate.

 

[weta]

On the back of a Warriors premiership(?) and the fact that the Hurricanes are massively under-performing and will continue to do so might make Wellington ripe for the picking imo.

 

[Iafeta]

New Zealand is dominating rugby league? Sure, they have got 3 teams playing on grand final day this year, which is impressive. But looking at it another way, they finished 6th in the regular season this year, were belted in round 1 of the finals, lucky to make it through to week 2. This is their second ever grand final. They are yet to win a premiership. They have only made the finals 7 times in their 17 seasons (including 4 of the last 5, though).

The Warriors are a pretty good team, but hardly dominant. I'd be happy for NZ to get a second team, but I wouldn't be pointing at the Warriors onfield success as a reason for it.

I guess to appreciate it you would need to look at the Kiwis as well - Four Nations and World Cup Champions. I think there's a definite improvement in NZRL stocks over the past 4-5 years and I think we're seeing a lot of young Kiwis come through into the NRL and perform well in key roles. Finally starting to get some good class in the halves for instance.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

There's no way the Bulldogs will relocate.

I don't see it happening in the near future for sure, but eventually I think some Sydney teams should move for the greater good.

 

[ByRd]

Seriously, the dogs relocating lol we would be one of the last sides to do so, we had the second highest crowd average in the NRL this year and have consistently been up the top for a long time now, what a geniused idea.

 

[Wilson1]

On the back of a Warriors premiership(?) and the fact that the Hurricanes are massively under-performing and will continue to do so might make Wellington ripe for the picking imo.

That is ridiculous logic. A NRL team must be a long term proposal. The Hurricanes will have good and bad seasons - they are bad now because of a coach making dumb moves. However, by the time a Wellington team did enter the NRL the Hurricanes could already be back into the playoffs again.

 

[Goddo]

Yeah any notion of the Bulldogs moving is monumentally stupid. They are the most profitable, highest attended Sydney club, taking in a large area of inner-west Sydney. They are a key cog in the game in Sydney. I hate em on the field, but they are an important club.

 

[Lego_Man]

NZ'ers, especially those not in Auckland, are fairly parochial and i'm not sure if they'd properly embrace a Sydney team just chucked onto their turf.

As the grassroots in the form of Leagues Clubs etc and highly developed Junior systems/school comps are missing, it would have to be a "build it and they will come" type approach - ie a wealthy benefactor or consortium to kick things off. Once there is a further juniors pathway and development system created by the club, the rest will fall into place.

 

[Canard]

Should on-field success ever be a measure for this sort of thing though?

Surely crowds, televesion rights, sponsorship, future growth, junior base etc. etc. should be major factors in determining this.

I shouldn't really matter if the Warriors are coming last or first as to whether expansion is justified/

 

[smithie]

Should on-field success ever be a measure for this sort of thing though?

Surely crowds, televesion rights, sponsorship, future growth, junior base etc. etc. should be major factors in determining this.

I shouldn't really matter if the Warriors are coming last or first as to whether expansion is justified/

You are correct. There are three main criteria that every future and current club should meet.
1. Financial stability and corporate support.
2. Quality infrastructure, both stadium and transport facilities.
3. Population, both potential supporter base and player talent pool.

If a second NZ team can meet those requirements then the case can be made, not because the Warriors are in the Grand Final.

 

[flippikat]

NZ'ers, especially those not in Auckland, are fairly parochial and i'm not sure if they'd properly embrace a Sydney team just chucked onto their turf.

As the grassroots in the form of Leagues Clubs etc and highly developed Junior systems/school comps are missing, it would have to be a "build it and they will come" type approach - ie a wealthy benefactor or consortium to kick things off. Once there is a further juniors pathway and development system created by the club, the rest will fall into place.

At the risk of repeating what I said earlier...

I was talking about this with a few of my colleagues today, and every sports fan at my work would jump at the chance to follow a Wellington NRL team - whether it's relocated from Sydney or home-grown.

It's a chance to be involved in the best RL comp in the world.

I think the thing here is that it would be us against the Aussies - us Kiwis just love the chance to get one up over our trans-Tasman cousins. The parochial mentality comes in more when you look at domestic sports competitions, where there's a heap of NZ teams battling amongst each other, with no Aussie team to rally against.

Kiwis love getting behind around any team that's playing against an Australian-based one. Look how we cheered for Ireland in the RWC!

It wouldn't matter if the side has bugger-all NZers initially - so long as the juniors can make their way through, that would change over time. (Anyway, the Warriors have shown that we can adopt the likes of Steve Price etc as one of our own..)


Actually, due to parochial (especially NSW v Qld) Australian sentiment I think there'd be LESS resistance to a relocated Sydney team from NZ than there would be in Brisbane, Perth, or the Central Coast...

 

[smithie]

At the risk of repeating what I said earlier...

I was talking about this with a few of my colleagues today, and every sports fan at my work would jump at the chance to follow a Wellington NRL team - whether it's relocated from Sydney or home-grown.

It's a chance to be involved in the best RL comp in the world.

I think the thing here is that it would be us against the Aussies - us Kiwis just love the chance to get one up over our trans-Tasman cousins. The parochial mentality comes in more when you look at domestic sports competitions, where there's a heap of NZ teams battling amongst each other, with no Aussie team to rally against.

Kiwis love getting behind around any team that's playing against an Australian-based one. Look how we cheered for Ireland in the RWC!

It wouldn't matter if the side has bugger-all NZers initially - so long as the juniors can make their way through, that would change over time. (Anyway, the Warriors have shown that we can adopt the likes of Steve Price etc as one of our own..)


Actually, due to parochial (especially NSW v Qld) Australian sentiment I think there'd be LESS resistance to a relocated Sydney team from NZ than there would be in Brisbane, Perth, or the Central Coast...