Northern hemisphere what is it doing ?

[Irish-bulldog]

i just watch teams from this weekend playing, all the island teams are improving at a fast rate, lots of nrl talent, then I look at the home nations, France , Jesus the gap just keeps on getting bigger.

What is the northern hemisphere actually doing ? What’s it actually trying to achieve? What’s its plans for improvement?.

 

[deluded pom?]

Send a half hearted GB team to New Zealand.

 

[roughyedspud]

Half arsed more like..

The reality is we've decided to undo all tge hard work that's been done over the last decade because they old farts might like a new GB Jersey...

I hope it's f**king horrible..

 

[deluded pom?]

Half arsed more like..

That’s what I meant but I’m a bit more refined than you.

 

[adamkungl]

England seems to be occupied with its silly GB plan and umming and ahhing over whether to change the Super League/Championship format a few more times, and the rest are taking their lead

 

[Irish-bulldog]

It’s a massive shame, we need France, Spain, Ireland , Wales playing games against the island nations , otherwise they will get hammered in the World Cup

 

[italoromano68]

It’s a massive shame, we need France, Spain, Ireland , Wales playing games against the island nations , otherwise they will get hammered in the World Cup

A 24 months championship, could provide good matches. TV could be interested too

 

[adamkungl]

Sad bump.

GB Lions off to a flying start losing against a small island nation.
France embarrassing themselves with a barely 2nd string team against the Kangaroos
Wales first team not doing anything this year, aside from 9s.
At least Ireland and Scotland flogged some minnows.

The only way they will close the gap is by investing in themselves and playing more games than their Pacific counterparts.
They need mid-year games, they need to be functioning as a good team before hitting Aus or NZ (or Tonga).

The RFL need to invest in their neighbours by putting out England or England Knights against France, Wales, Ireland, Scotland regularly. They need quality opposition and need to build it around them.
If the proposed Euro 4 or 6 Nations goes ahead this will be good.


I'd say English posters will pan the idea, but the best way forward for mid-year quality games is
England v Celtic Nations XIII.
It would tie into the GB revival nicely, giving the Wales, Scotland and Ireland players a fair shot at proving their worth to the squad and getting them tier 1 test quality football every year.
At the end of the every year those nations would continue to play separately as now, with a GB Tour only once every 4 years.

Celtic Nations could put out a team similar to this:
1 Elliot Kear
2 Rhys Williams
3 Chester Butler
4 Alex Walker
5 Regan Grace
6 Ryan Brierley
7 Liam Finn
8 Craig Kopczak
9 Michael McIllorum
10 Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook
11 Joe Philbin
12 Morgan Knowles
13 Kyle Amor

14 Matty Fozard
15 Gil Dudson
16 Ben Currie
17 Tyrone McCarthy


France
f**king France.
They need to sort themselves out and get their best team on the park. They are capable of a squad that is almost all-Super League. But whatever their administration and coach is doing is not working for their professional players.

For France I suggest, in addition to the annual Euro Cups and potential RLIF tournaments, to play mid-year against Italy and Spain and take it f**king seriously.
An annual game against England in mid-October to kick off their international season before rocking up to any tournament.
France doesn't have a fully professional domestic competition. They have the flexibility to play more international games. They need their Super League and Toulouse players to buy in, or they will spiral into nothing.

1 Tony Gigot
2 Fouad Yaha
3 Hakim Miloudi
4 Ben Garcia
5 Ilas Bergal
6 Theo Fages
7 Lucas Albert
8 Atonia Maria
9 Alrix Da Costa
10 Julien Bousquet
11 Ben Jullien
12 Romain Navarrete
13 Jason Baitieri

14 Clement Boyer
15 Lambert Belmas
16 Rhys Curran
17 Morgan Escare


The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and expecting different results.
England and France need to shake things up and lead the way for a European Rugby League renaissance.

 

[jim_57]

Sad bump.

GB Lions off to a flying start losing against a small island nation.
France embarrassing themselves with a barely 2nd string team against the Kangaroos
Wales first team not doing anything this year, aside from 9s.
At least Ireland and Scotland flogged some minnows.

The only way they will close the gap is by investing in themselves and playing more games than their Pacific counterparts.
They need mid-year games, they need to be functioning as a good team before hitting Aus or NZ (or Tonga).

The RFL need to invest in their neighbours by putting out England or England Knights against France, Wales, Ireland, Scotland regularly. They need quality opposition and need to build it around them.
If the proposed Euro 4 or 6 Nations goes ahead this will be good.


I'd say English posters will pan the idea, but the best way forward for mid-year quality games is
England v Celtic Nations XIII.
It would tie into the GB revival nicely, giving the Wales, Scotland and Ireland players a fair shot at proving their worth to the squad and getting them tier 1 test quality football every year.
At the end of the every year those nations would continue to play separately as now, with a GB Tour only once every 4 years.

Celtic Nations could put out a team similar to this:
1 Elliot Kear
2 Rhys Williams
3 Chester Butler
4 Alex Walker
5 Regan Grace
6 Ryan Brierley
7 Liam Finn
8 Craig Kopczak
9 Michael McIllorum
10 Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook
11 Joe Philbin
12 Morgan Knowles
13 Kyle Amor

14 Matty Fozard
15 Gil Dudson
16 Ben Currie
17 Tyrone McCarthy


France
f**king France.
They need to sort themselves out and get their best team on the park. They are capable of a squad that is almost all-Super League. But whatever their administration and coach is doing is not working for their professional players.

For France I suggest, in addition to the annual Euro Cups and potential RLIF tournaments, to play mid-year against Italy and Spain and take it f**king seriously.
An annual game against England in mid-October to kick off their international season before rocking up to any tournament.
France doesn't have a fully professional domestic competition. They have the flexibility to play more international games. They need their Super League and Toulouse players to buy in, or they will spiral into nothing.

1 Tony Gigot
2 Fouad Yaha
3 Hakim Miloudi
4 Ben Garcia
5 Ilas Bergal
6 Theo Fages
7 Lucas Albert
8 Atonia Maria
9 Alrix Da Costa
10 Julien Bousquet
11 Ben Jullien
12 Romain Navarrete
13 Jason Baitieri

14 Clement Boyer
15 Lambert Belmas
16 Rhys Curran
17 Morgan Escare


The definition of insanity is to continue doing the same thing and expecting different results.
England and France need to shake things up and lead the way for a European Rugby League renaissance.

Kind of agree that something needs to happen and England need to be at the centre of it.

I've always been against England playing the Knights against France but it's getting to the stage where I would happily suck it up if it helped France improve. Problem is we seem to have a bit of a stalemate where a lot of England supporters and maybe the RFL think they're above playing France whilst France seem to think they're above playing England Knights.

I still don't see a problem with an all SL England side playing France mid-year but call them the Knights if you have to. Some pretty average players have played for England in the recent past so don't see the "prestige" rubbing off too much if the NRL players sit one out. The key as you say is France taking it seriously.

Spud wants his idea back about the Celtic Tigers too by the way . At thr end of the day I could even get behind that if it meant it 10 years Ireland, Scotland and Wales were stronger because of it. No Irishman, Scot or Welshman would be too keen on supporting a weird hybrid side but it would be played in England anyway. As long as Ireland, Scotland and Wales continue to get games and play in official tournaments I'd have no issues with it.

 

[adamkungl]

Knights or just England, at this point I'm not fussed what they call themselves.
England playing their neighbours is an investment in their own future as well as good for the game.
7000 against Jamaica proves that there's an appetite.

France needs a clean-out. Their system is delivering well below what it should be capable of.

Celtic would be an addition to the program, not take anything away from anyone.
It would complement the GB Lions and actually give other nations a shot.
It would give England meaningful opposition which actually has the potential to gain new fans and elevate players to a higher level (unlike the largely pointless, ill-fated Exiles).

Ireland, Wales and Scotland would still compete in the same end of year tournaments and tests as they do now, hopefully far more over time.

 

[jim_57]

Knights or just England, at this point I'm not fussed what they call themselves.
England playing their neighbours is an investment in their own future as well as good for the game.
7000 against Jamaica proves that there's an appetite.

France needs a clean-out. Their system is delivering well below what it should be capable of.

Celtic would be an addition to the program, not take anything away from anyone.
It would complement the GB Lions and actually give other nations a shot.
It would give England meaningful opposition which actually has the potential to gain new fans and elevate players to a higher level (unlike the largely pointless, ill-fated Exiles).

Ireland, Wales and Scotland would still compete in the same end of year tournaments and tests as they do now, hopefully far more over time.

I agree, I think England should get a test in against France at least once a year. Outside of that I'd have no issue with France playing the Knights if they have nothing else happening and England are otherwise occupied.

 

[geordie_saint]

i just watch teams from this weekend playing, all the island teams are improving at a fast rate, lots of nrl talent, then I look at the home nations, France , Jesus the gap just keeps on getting bigger.

What is the northern hemisphere actually doing ? What’s it actually trying to achieve? What’s its plans for improvement?.

Realistically, the answer is nothing.

The island teams are improving rapidly due to their players playing in the NRL or in the levels below. The PNG Hunters are playing in the Queensland Cup and with a Fiji side is at the starting block in the NSW league (sorry can't remember the name). Scouts are actively seeking to hoover up talent both in the Islands as well. Throw in the fact you have a huge Pacific diaspora in both New Zealand and Australia to tap into and the sheer number of people playing the sport in the Southern Hemisphere, there is a huge amount of support to the likes of Tonga, Samoa, Fiji et al.

Now in the Northern Hemisphere, we have Catalan and Toulouse in the British leagues along with Welsh representation (North/South) in League 1. We also have Toronto of course. However, other than a bit of TV money, we invest nothing else in those areas. Scouts do hoover up small elements of Welsh/French talent but with the latter is not normally at junior levels. The RFL stopped funding the Welsh/Scottish after the RLWC13. There is activity across Europe/North America but this is at a low level. Realistically the sport in the Northern Hemisphere has little money other than the SKY TV deal, which the vast majority goes to the SL clubs. So other than RLEF activity, we barely scratch the surface of activity levels in comparison to the Southern Hemisphere. But the reasons why are understandable; resource and playing depth.

So what's the answer? There isn't an easy one. I would like to see every SL club (especially Toronto) start to develop links with various countries across Europe/North America to start development pathways for players to become involved in professional set ups (same with referees as well). These players may not make SL standard but the knowledge/skills/experience they will develop, will greatly enhance the sport in their home nations. I'd pair each SL club (and aspirational Championship clubs) with a nation(s) and bring across a small amount of players/officials each year to develop. It wouldn't cost an arm and a leg; look at Theo Fages' experience at Salford for example. But there needs to be a will to do this (offer small financial incentives through the IRL/RLEF etc). It'd be a long process but you have to start somewhere otherwise other than England, that chasm will continue to grow...

 

[adamkungl]

The answer is always investment in the future.
The obstacle is always a reluctance to even sacrifice a tiny amount of the present $$ to grow the game's future.

Take the England v Celtic series idea. For arguments sake, we can even pretend it's a good idea
The clubs and fans would undoubtedly kick and scream about losing a handful of players for 1-3 of their 35-odd club games because it might impact their pie and coke sales.
In reality, they'd lose almost nothing. But they'd fight tooth and nail for that almost-nothing rather than invest it in the future.

 

[geordie_saint]

The answer is always investment in the future.
The obstacle is always a reluctance to even sacrifice a tiny amount of the present $$ to grow the game's future.

Take the England v Celtic series idea. For arguments sake, we can even pretend it's a good idea
The clubs and fans would undoubtedly kick and scream about losing a handful of players for 1-3 of their 35-odd club games because it might impact their pie and coke sales.
In reality, they'd lose almost nothing. But they'd fight tooth and nail for that almost-nothing rather than invest it in the future.

I agree with the bit in bold. Less so about the England vs Celtic Series idea as it'll have little impact IMO other than giving a run out to the England team. The real issue is investment and development. That would be better focussed in the right places rather than randomly...

 

[roughyedspud]

Nigh on 10 years I've been going on about a combined Celtic team (tigers)

 

[adamkungl]

Nigh on 10 years I've been going on about a combined Celtic team (tigers)

Sure as shit better than the Exiles idea

I don't know the culture well enough to judge. Would there be any pride in a combined Celtic team?
Could you sell it in Edinburgh or Dublin?

On the other hand - a well marketed, professional presentation, good stadiums and a competitive game - maybe the support would build over time.
If you half-arsed it and didn't commit for a long haul it would fail for sure.

 

[siv]

The only way they will close the gap is by investing in themselves and playing more games than their Pacific counterparts.

But RLIF ratings say Euro nations are better than all of the Pacific nations

 

[roughyedspud]

But RLIF ratings say Euro nations are better than all of the Pacific nations

Cos they hardly ever played to rack up the ranking points..where as the Euro nations played 3-4 times a year...that's changing now though

 

[adamkungl]

But RLIF ratings say Euro nations are better than all of the Pacific nations

Not really.

The current ranking outside the top 3 is

Tonga
Fiji
France
Samoa
Scotland
Lebanon
PNG
Wales
Ireland
Jamaica
Italy
USA

You actually have to play games to get ranking points.

Tonga and Fiji are rightfully ranked highly.
France comfortably beat Wales, Ireland, and Scotland last year while Samoa and PNG only played 1 game (i think?)
and Samoa's last start vs a European nation was a pretty miserable draw at the 2017 RLWC.

So looks about bang on to me.
PNG maybe hard done by, but they need to play more tests. We know they can beat Fiji or France on their day but they actually have to play the game and prove it.

 

[roughyedspud]

Sure as shit better than the Exiles idea

I don't know the culture well enough to judge. Would there be any pride in a combined Celtic team?
Could you sell it in Edinburgh or Dublin?

On the other hand - a well marketed, professional presentation, good stadiums and a competitive game - maybe the support would build over time.
If you half-arsed it and didn't commit for a long haul it would fail for sure.

My original idea for a Celt team bore out from the notion that old fart nostalgics said we need GB so Wales,Scotland & Ireland could retain players..they would opt for Wales,Scotland & Ireland knowing they could get picked for GB when they toured...I always said that was horseshit and the current GB squad proves it was horseshit...I always said we should create a Celtic touring team..a team the Wales,Scots & Irish would actually get selected for..the best Welsh,Scots and Irish players would benefit from such tours..

England doesn't need to be involved in a combined touring team,it doesn't benefit from being involved, infact it's probably damaging the England brand..

Imagine how good this could have been..(if there was no RLWCQ)

England play in the 9s then go off on tour of NZ..

Wales,Scots & Irish play in the 9s then the combined Celts go off round Australia..3 test v OZ 'A' or something?

And when England goes to Australia the Celts go to NZ...

and when Australia & nz tour the UK they play Wales,Scotland & Ireland separately that way every box gets ticked to help the Celt nations retain players...they get to play big boys at home and they get to tour too...everyone wins...I swear when I win the euromillions lottery (it's £63m tomorrow) I'm gonna get the WRL,RLi & SRL sat round a table and Chuck a cheque in the middle for £10m and say right..this is how we're doing shit..f**k England and hanging on to the coat tails of the RFL..

Last year I pitched England knights v the Celts as our version of origin..it's far better suited to show the development of the game in the British isles than Lancashire v bloody Yorkshire,you'd still get mate v mate and all that..and makes sense as a precursor to GB selection..a 2 game,aggregate score,series..one game in England and rotate the Celt Home game between Cardiff ,Dublin and Glasgow...

I reckon they would be close games too..would the Celts have any pride?? I think so..I'd be winding them up saying they aren't good enough lol