Notional value

[Loudstrat]

I agree that we shouldnt be given a rubber cap just to fit him in.

I also think the problem is not with the contract price - its the fact that Folau's worth has not been tested in the RL marketplace. That's why he had to make one up, but $400k? For a former boy wonder who wandered around a paddock with some friendless geniuss for two years, lost bulk and fitness, picked up an annoying habit of punching footballs, and whose only mate was a bald Doug Mulray look-alike who wandered into Blacktown one day thinking he had discovered f*cking Atlantis? $400k??????

I thought there was dispensation for clubs poaching players from other sports? It was Parra and their players that engineered this - how about a fair f*cking go?????

Im wondering what Todd Carney's first year at the Roosters was valued?

 

[Fire]

^ dumb merkin

 

[Canard]

What do the Eels value Izzy at currently? Based on his total contract value/years of contract? Serious question? I assume its more than 150K but less than 400K? Or is it 400K when averaged out>

That should be the notional value starting point

Remember under the new cap 400K is equivalent to 250K

 

[Pierced Soul]

the point of it all simply is to try and ensure we dont have a repeat of the storm situation. realistically we can argue whether he's lost skills, fitness, form etc but on the open market he's probably worth more than $150k and by valuing him at only $150k leads to the temptation that he's going to end up being given boats as compo

 

[Quidgybo]

Remember under the new cap 400K is equivalent to 250K

That's a key point. Since the Inglis signing and since Folau left the game, the cap has risen significantly. Any comparison of values needs to consider that $400k now does not equal anything like $400k one or two seasons ago.

Leigh.

 

[B-Tron 3000]

i Wanna know why he doesn't look at players getting over paid?? as well would only be fair

Haha the simplest yet possibly most profound post in this thread.

This is another example of the game shooting itself in the foot. Here we have a situation where a player manager can use all the tricks of the trade to get his client paid more than he is "worth", yet on the odd occasion that a player is willing to take less money then the NRL (or more to the point: one man) won't allow it!!

As if the game doesn't have enough issues trying to hold on to players. Now we're saying we can't pay them less even if they want to come for less!!

And why? Because the NRL doesn't have an effective way of managing the cap they need to put in further artificial constraints!!

What they really need to do is put in a proper, manageable system for monitoring the cap instead of asking one poor bloke to run around and try and look after everything.

 

[The.X.Factor9]

Personally I don't like Parra, I don't like their
-Ball boy,
-Water boy's,
-Fans,
-Coaching staff,
-CEO,
-The entire administration,
I don't even like the name Parramatta, from grass roots to sponsors I don't like them but fmd they're getting screwed here. It's as if Schubert is making it up as he goes.

Didn't the Dragons sign Gaz for 50K? Did they change the rule ?

 

[siv]

If i were Parra i would sign him for the 150 thousand with the back ended contract and take it to the NRL with a clear threat if they don't approve it they will see the court room. So long as a club is actually paying the player that figure the NRL has no right to block it. The Storm just signed finch for about 100 thousand when he supposedly could get 400 thousand in super league. Schubert seems to have way too much descretion in making decisions

Parra have $110K in the cap they tried to sign for $110k and back end the deal or setup 3rd Party deals

Schubert said you can't do that - his notional value is $400k

Which seems to have been decided way back when he last played league. With no consideration to teh fack he has been out of the game for 2 years

In a court of law notional value would not stand up - as the Salary Cap says you can pay anyone what you want from the minimum of $54k up to a maximum of $3.7 mil under a $5 mil Salary Cap

Any players value is what the market would pay - not what they were on

 

[Loudstrat]

the point of it all simply is to try and ensure we dont have a repeat of the storm situation. realistically we can argue whether he's lost skills, fitness, form etc but on the open market he's probably worth more than $150k and by valuing him at only $150k leads to the temptation that he's going to end up being given boats as compo

Never heard of a back ended contract?

And in Folau's case, it would be more than appropriate.

If he never went to AFL and stayed at Brisbane and maintained his career tradjectory, he would probably be worth 500-600k on the open market. This is because of his talent and skills - tryscoring and finishing ability - balanced against the fact that he is only a winger. In the market his competition would be Morris, Uate and Yow Yeh.

But he DID go. I reckon he will take the best part of a season to regain his League mojo - 6 months at best. For that first season he would not be worth anywhere near that as a player. Some CEO;s would incorporate his marketing value as a big name - similar to the hype surrounding SBW who will also take some time to get back to his League best. Then again, no one is interested in Quade Cooper, and it took Willie Mason a hell of a lot of time and effort to get a bid from the Knights.

Put that aside for a second. The salary cap jumped 17.6% when it went from $4.25 million to $5 million. So that $400k contract was worth $340k in the old salary cap. He isnt worth that, but he could be in 2014-15.

Id reckon he's currently worth $250k for 2013, and $400k for the next two years. Meaning they could easily pay him $110k in 2013, $400k in 2014 and $540 in 2015.

Schubert, like Dimitriou/Kelvin Sneezby, seem to think he sh*ts gold nuggets. Yet, if he NEVER played for Melbourne/Brisbane, and he was just signed straight from GWS with a rap as a former gun League junior, what would he be worth? About $110k.

Schubert is only basing the nominal value on where he was 2 years ago, and hasnt taken into account the last 2 years in the wilderness. He also forgets that having Izzy back is great news for the NRL, but a big risk for Parramatta (as is Will Hopoate to a lesser extent). Yet Parra did all the legwork, not the NRL. This has to be recognised.

And if Schubert approves SBW taking a half pay cut to allow Sheldon Cooper to join the Roosters, expect a mutiny.

 

[Jubileeboy]

Finch - $400K (superleague)...lol

 

[Marshall_magic]

Notional value is crap, I bet there are plenty of players out there who are getting paid much less than they are worth. If Schubert and co want to stop players having ridiculously lopsided deals just have a rule that they must be paid at least x% of their entire contractual payment each year for a deal lasting y years. For example, 25% of their total contractual payment for a 2 year deal, 20% for a 3 year deal, 17% (1/6th) in a 4 year deal and 14% (1/7) for a 5 year deal. That way if Parra want to pay Folau 400k in 2014 they'd have to pay him 133k in 2013, etc.

I know Folau went to a rival code, but he is still a talented rugby league player, and we should be welcoming him back, not putting up walls. Will Schubert put the same barriers up if Sonny wants to take a 50% pay cut to bring Cooper to the Roosters?

 

[betcats]

I dont really agree with what Schueey has done but say something like the following was to occur:

Say player A is fielding offers of 350-400 thousand dollars from a couple of clubs but signs with a club with not that much cap space for 150 thousand this season then 550 or 600 thousand the season after that.

I think thats manipulating the cap and think it shouldnt be allowed.

 

[Cumberland Throw]

Here's a crazy idea

Ban the backended contract

 

[ek999]

I asked this in another thread but is everyone going off a Daily Telegraph article which said they believed that the ARLC had set a notional value of $400k and wouldn't accept anything lower? Or is there another article with a quote from the ARLC that I missed.

 

[Quidgybo]

I asked this in another thread but is everyone going off a Daily Telegraph article which said they believed that the ARLC had set a notional value of $400k and wouldn't accept anything lower? Or is there another article with a quote from the ARLC that I missed.

Well presumably the leak came out of either Parramatta or the Folau camp given the NRL's tightening up on press contact since the Commission sacked Gallop. Whether the information is accurate or just a propaganda figure leaked to try and pressure Schubert is another matter.

Leigh.

 

[betcats]

Would not suprise me at all if it was plucked out of thin air.

 

[firechild]

Here's a crazy idea

Ban the backended contract

More or less this. Allow clubs to value contracts at whatever they want for each year but if the total of the contract is $900k over 3 years then the value under the cap is $300k per year regardless of whether the club wants to pay it as that or $100k for the first 2 years and $700k for the 3rd.

 

[franklin2323]

Yeah some transparency on notional value would be good. From my own clubs perspective Willie Mason, Timana Tahu and Danny Buderus would be earning far less now than they were in their prime.

A notional value of $400k for Folau seems ludicrous.

Buderus's worth as a local to the best hooker at his prime is huge. That worth drops if he changes clubs. Same with Bowen at NQ he is loved in the remote villages if he moves elsewhere surely his worth to that team is less

 

[BranVan3000]

More or less this. Allow clubs to value contracts at whatever they want for each year but if the total of the contract is $900k over 3 years then the value under the cap is $300k per year regardless of whether the club wants to pay it as that or $100k for the first 2 years and $700k for the 3rd.

That's a horrid idea, it would just lock players out of long term contracts. That or clubs would end up locking themselves into long terms deals they have to suffer through. See Jennings at Panthers now

 

[Frank_Grimes]

Has Schubert actually valued him at $400k or has he only released that he's worth more than $150k?