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NRL nothing to fear from AFL in Sydney: Senate

danmiles73

Juniors
Messages
246
The Senate report handed down yesterday on the viability of an 18th AFL team made some interesting comments on the relative strengths of Australian Rules and rugby league in Sydney (and Brisbane).

The full report can be found here: http://www.aph.gov.au/SEnate/committee/rrat_ctte/afl_tasmania/report/index.htm

Here are some excerpts that interested me:

2.48 There was doubt, though, about the possibility of an Australian Rules team
ever attracting enough interest in Western Sydney for it to be viable. At present, the
vast majority people living in Western Sydney have little interest in the code or the
AFL competition. Mr Martin Flanagan argued:
Even in Brisbane, which had more of a pre-existing Australian football
culture than New South Wales and one of the greatest sides in the history of
the game within the past 10 years, ironically, crowds have dropped away
enormously. So these are very fragile markets. If Tasmania is set up, it is a
safe bet, whereas Western Sydney is a gamble.41

2.49 Mr Biggs warned that the significant cultural aspect of football makes it a
much more difficult product to sell in new markets:
...the AFL has to operate on business lines and clearly that means growth
and searching for new markets, but you cannot sell a sport and a culture like
you can sell a commercial product. Most commercial products, given a
reasonable, well-funded marketing campaign, can probably be delivered
into most markets. That is not the case with sport, which relies heavily on
culture.42

2.50 He indicated that while the AFL had successfully spread modified Australian
Rules football (Auskick) into schools, efforts to establish a NSW state league in
Sydney or provide the AFL with home-grown players had failed.43 He said:
Why have those two key objectives failed? For one very simple reason:
Australian Football could not break into the culture.44
2.51 Mr Biggs later added:
...a lot of kids play soccer and Auskick. It is what they choose to play once
they get to the end of primary school years that really counts.45
2.62 There must be concern, however, that primary school-aged children
participating in modified Australia Rules via school programs will not necessarily
translate into meaningful support for the code. Even in general terms, caution should
be exercised when drawing parallels between participation in a sport and the
likelihood of people going to see that sport live at an elite level or watching matches
on television.
 

Sharkie™

Juniors
Messages
1,606
Just confirms everything we already know really. I hope AFL does go ahead with the new team in Western Sydney because it will be nice to watch it die.
 
Messages
42,645
Just confirms everything we already know really. I hope AFL does go ahead with the new team in Western Sydney because it will be nice to watch it die.

Yep.

They'll piss 10's of millions down the drain and for that they'll probably only split the existing fans.

The Swans must be spewing. Their support has dipped dramatically, their TV ratings in NSW are abysmal and Demetriou wants them to share that with another team?

Bring it.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
152,659
No doubt they are doing a good job through the schools

I know a heap of kids who played Ozkick at primary school, much like kids that play soccer when they are young, but the novelty seems to wear off when they grow up and go to High school where they represent their school playing League.

I dont think alot of mums want young Johnny playing league when they are young as they consider it too rough for their kids.
 

joedynamo

Juniors
Messages
234
Twizzle said:
I know a heap of kids who played Ozkick at primary school, much like kids that play soccer when they are young, but the novelty seems to wear off when they grow up and go to High school where they represent their school playing League.
Thing is Twizzle, the afl(and some other sports) use the Ozkick/ gala days to inflate thier participation figures, in order to get access to facillites and funding.
Want to guess the one sport which reports only its registered players?
 
Messages
15,545
Can someone please tell me why we had a Senate inquiry into whether the AFL should have a second Sydney team or not?

Why the f**k is my tax money being spent on stupid sh*t like this? If the AFL wishes to have a second team in Sydney and piss it's money up against a wall, then good for them. Why should a bunch of Tax payer funded Senators who are probably on about $300 / hr all be sitting around discussing this? FMD! Go and discuss important sh*t that is of concern to the entire country, like Hospitals and Transport you bunch of overpaid dipsh*ts.
 
Messages
1,520
No doubt they are doing a good job through the schools

I know a heap of kids who played Ozkick at primary school, much like kids that play soccer when they are young, but the novelty seems to wear off when they grow up and go to High school where they represent their school playing League.

I dont think alot of mums want young Johnny playing league when they are young as they consider it too rough for their kids.

The sport you play as a kid has nothing to do with the sport you play later on. I've heard of excellent baseball players as kids abandon the game, i've heard the same of soccer players....you hit your teens and you feel different.

The brain undegoes radical changes as you grow up....the frontal lobes which are under-developed in childhood (hence uncontrolled tantrums in toddlers, etc) are growing well by the teenage years, in some cases dramatically changing a persons character. This happens further into adulthood. The frontal lobes act as the conductor for the rest of the brain, essentially meaning that as you grow you are able to "pull yourself together", and your complete personality emerges. Children throwing tantrums is just a consequence of the frontal lobes not really being there - they just can't help it....

so it would stand to reason that wanting to play a sport when you are young is not always the choice that the adult person would make if they had that choice as a child.


_____


Someone asked me about behaviour and culture and how people were creatures of habbit...they asked if 2 tribes lived on either side of a big hill and never met each, how would they develop and share some things in common while being completely different in other respects (you can apply this to any situation where people are separated by geography and interests). It comes back to human nature, habbits, and culture. And how people are followers rather than leaders usually or trendsetters
Culture exerts its influence AFTER you are born. Human nature and habit (via evolution) exerts its influence BEFORE you are born. In our example, the people on either side of the hill could wear different clothes and like different music but still have the need to hunt and gather food, or go to the shops, whatever. The culture is a direct influence of their behaviour. They are two different things making up one set of actions (what you do while you are alive).
There are two diverging paths to altering a culture. Both are hard and require considerable resources. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive. To do so, you should first ALTER A BEHAVIOUR and change HABBITS. You can do this through influence (find out what influences people: such as grandeur, majority doing it, being lead by another) . Or you can do it through force (in this case of sport it cannot really be done that way)
It may never reach the next step. But when you get enough people doing these things that form this new culture and they continue to do it through habit, you have enough 'power' to influence the opposing culture and get them to change.
You see when you are presented with a strong enough argument to the contrary of what you are doing, your brain must question it. You wonder why the other thing is different and what it means for the current thing you do. And during this time you re-define what you are currently doing in your brain and you make a judgement about it, and based on how you redefined it determines how you will judge it and perceive it into the future. Its true that a lot of the time the new culture/activity never gets a look in. People dont often question hard enough what they do as they are never really ever presented with a compelling enough reason to change. (ANTI SMOKING ADS FOR INSTANCE WOULD BE A COMPELLING REASON - AVOID PREMATURE DEATH)
Ok....so the diverging paths thing? Whats the other path....well its transplantation. You can get a pre-defined culture and just transplant your people to different lands. Like the Jews being deposed of their lands and subsequently living in nearly every other land on earth....so it was easy for their religion to spread and was big enough to get the attention of Rome via Constantine and be used for his own purposes of conquest. Or Victorians moving to qld and nsw.
A lot of the time its just not enough to get you over the line. Without help, such as with Christianity being helped by Constantines selfish goals.

Anyway, you see, culture is a very difficult thing to change. People are creatures of habbit, and rarely question what they are doing, because often they cannot be presented with a compelling enough reason to change what they are doing. (fashion is the one notable exception and music because these things make us feel so good) Sport is so much harder, mainly perhaps due to the amount of time and effort it requires one to commit to. Fashion and music is easy as going to a shop or turning on the radio)


AFL will probably never change our sporting culture.....but if it is somehow, somewhere making the slightest of inroads against rugby leagues culture, its going to be a LONG time before we notice. Subsequent generations may be different, but this one is not buying.
 
Last edited:

Tex_21

Juniors
Messages
154
Can someone please tell me why we had a Senate inquiry into whether the AFL should have a second Sydney team or not?

Why the f**k is my tax money being spent on stupid sh*t like this? If the AFL wishes to have a second team in Sydney and piss it's money up against a wall, then good for them. Why should a bunch of Tax payer funded Senators who are probably on about $300 / hr all be sitting around discussing this? FMD! Go and discuss important sh*t that is of concern to the entire country, like Hospitals and Transport you bunch of overpaid dipsh*ts.
The enquiry was to determine why Tassie wasn't getting the 18th AFL club, instead of West Sydney. Why the Seante gives a f**k is beyond me-last I knew, the AFL and NRL were businesses and can set up operations wherever the hell they feel like, provided it is within the realms of the law.
 

fourplay

Juniors
Messages
2,236
Can someone please tell me why we had a Senate inquiry into whether the AFL should have a second Sydney team or not?

Why the f**k is my tax money being spent on stupid sh*t like this? If the AFL wishes to have a second team in Sydney and piss it's money up against a wall, then good for them. Why should a bunch of Tax payer funded Senators who are probably on about $300 / hr all be sitting around discussing this? FMD! Go and discuss important sh*t that is of concern to the entire country, like Hospitals and Transport you bunch of overpaid dipsh*ts.

I was wondering that too.
 
Messages
3,625
Can someone please tell me why we had a Senate inquiry into whether the AFL should have a second Sydney team or not?

Why the f**k is my tax money being spent on stupid sh*t like this? If the AFL wishes to have a second team in Sydney and piss it's money up against a wall, then good for them. Why should a bunch of Tax payer funded Senators who are probably on about $300 / hr all be sitting around discussing this? FMD! Go and discuss important sh*t that is of concern to the entire country, like Hospitals and Transport you bunch of overpaid dipsh*ts.

Because Senators representing Tasmania see this issue as one of economic and cultural importance to their electorate. I don't have an issue with that - it's one of the reasons the Senate exists and why they get paid $132k a year (which is hardly extravagant).

It's the same as when MPs from Rugby league areas in the UK have used Parliament to highlight press prejudice or funding issues facing RL.

I don't want to see a team in Western Sydney - at the very least it has the potential to suck sponsorship dollars away from NRL clubs and irritate us all with even more blanket advertising than we get now from the AFL... no thanks.
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
32,010
Can someone please tell me why we had a Senate inquiry into whether the AFL should have a second Sydney team or not?

Why the f**k is my tax money being spent on stupid sh*t like this? If the AFL wishes to have a second team in Sydney and piss it's money up against a wall, then good for them. Why should a bunch of Tax payer funded Senators who are probably on about $300 / hr all be sitting around discussing this? FMD! Go and discuss important sh*t that is of concern to the entire country, like Hospitals and Transport you bunch of overpaid dipsh*ts.



Well the AFL had approached the NSW government and I am sure the Federal government for funding to develop a large training facility in Blacktown I believe, so no doubt the inquiry was called to test the viability of such an investment.

I've got no problems with it, particularly as this inquiry has come to the conclusion that a 2nd sydney team is not viable, which will have saved the tax payer millions in wasted funding for improved facilities.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
The Senate report handed down yesterday on the viability of an 18th AFL team made some interesting comments on the relative strengths of Australian Rules and rugby league in Sydney (and Brisbane).

The full report can be found here: http://www.aph.gov.au/SEnate/committee/rrat_ctte/afl_tasmania/report/index.htm

Here are some excerpts that interested me:

I need a senate commitee to tell me that?


Must have been looking for something to release before the pollies f**k off for 6 weeks holiday!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
68,861
LOL at the insecurity of RL. Could you ever imagine AFL, AFL fans, Melbourne media etc discussing if NRL will take over Victoria due the Melbourne Storm?

Only damage a second Sydney AFL team will cause is potential for some corproate $'s to go there way instead of a Sydney NRL team and the media having more reason to print AFL news and coverage. Other than that it will make very little difference to the Sydney sporting landscale for at least the next two decades.
 

1 Eyed TEZZA

Coach
Messages
12,420
LOL at the insecurity of RL. Could you ever imagine AFL, AFL fans, Melbourne media etc discussing if NRL will take over Victoria due the Melbourne Storm?

Only damage a second Sydney AFL team will cause is potential for some corproate $'s to go there way instead of a Sydney NRL team and the media having more reason to print AFL news and coverage. Other than that it will make very little difference to the Sydney sporting landscale for at least the next two decades.

I think you will find with the majority of inteligent RL fans in Sydney, we know that the AFL pose next to no threat with this second AFL team. As for everyone else, the media bias towards the AFL and against RL is the reason why your average Sydney fan panics at the sign of a 2nd AFL team.

Surely you know this, but this seems like you just trying to have a shot at Sydney RL again.
 

Nerd

Bench
Messages
2,827
Sh*t even politicians have noticed that a second afl team in Sydney is a joke.
Demetriou just doesn't get it. He can have a hundred teams in QLD and NSW to try and push up their TV rights, but it won't wash with the TV execs because they know that afl rates terrible outside the southern states.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
68,861
I think you will find with the majority of inteligent RL fans in Sydney, we know that the AFL pose next to no threat with this second AFL team. As for everyone else, the media bias towards the AFL and against RL is the reason why your average Sydney fan panics at the sign of a 2nd AFL team.

Surely you know this, but this seems like you just trying to have a shot at Sydney RL again.

Not at all, I just find it amusing (and somewhat sad) that in our own heartlands we are so insecure, and have so little media clout, that this AFL venture isn't just laughed at full stop. In comparison to the strength of AFL in their heartlands our heartlands do seem to be alot weaker. Nothing to do with it being Sydney, everything to do with it being a poor reflection on the leadership of the ARL/NRL imo.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
68,861
Sh*t even politicians have noticed that a second afl team in Sydney is a joke.
Demetriou just doesn't get it. He can have a hundred teams in QLD and NSW to try and push up their TV rights, but it won't wash with the TV execs because they know that afl rates terrible outside the southern states.

It's been interesting in these last few weeks to see how the AFL personalities in the media have started to take a very anti NSW stance (not so much GC). Everything from falling TV attendances to the game struggling in SA to the more worthy Tasmania have been put up as reasons not to go into West Sydney. Seems everyone can see it being a bottomless money pit for the next 20 years except the AFL!
 

1 Eyed TEZZA

Coach
Messages
12,420
Not at all, I just find it amusing (and somewhat sad) that in our own heartlands we are so insecure, and have so little media clout, that this AFL venture isn't just laughed at full stop. In comparison to the strength of AFL in their heartlands our heartlands do seem to be alot weaker. Nothing to do with it being Sydney, everything to do with it being a poor reflection on the leadership of the ARL/NRL imo.

Yeah, true. the heartlands of West Sydney has been neglected pretty badly in the last decade by the NSWRL and theh. Numbers are still going up and money is coming at a pretty consistant rate, but there hasnt been enough quality improvment of development. Until recently when another Rugby League academy was set up. But it has been 10 years in the waiting.

As for the media, i know this is beating a dead horse. But alot of the Sydney media is stillvery sore about the SL war. I cant speak for all media, but I truely believe its a big contributer.
 

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