Official Team v Bulldogs

[Jono078]

I'd be pissed too mate. Cuthbo starting is going well? Yet he persists with him. I just think it's a real possiblity. Similar situation to last week.

True. Although last week he had Filipo and he was a backup whereas Zane is a straight up forward.

I want to see either Stig or Roberts this week, no bullshiting around with the halves, especially with Hilder.

 

[Joker's Wild]

yeah, i would say that he has improved with each match so far. he hasn't properly found his rhythm on either side of the ball yet. the main thing i think that counts against him is he is anything but a "bang it up" type forward - and that's the sort of thing we need at the moment. Zeb is all about finesse, hitting gaps hard at really excellent angles moreso than hitting defensive lines hard... and of course his defensive workload has always been admirable.

look, i'm Zebs #1 fan... and i've tried to keep quiet about him this year to see how he goes. i have a suspicion that Bennett will look to get rid of him, and i think that's a damn shame if he's a chance of playing like the '09/'10 model. i'm just trying to get a read on what Bennett wants from him at the moment, and whether he is actually viable into the future.

I think over the last 2 rounds he is doing the job that is being asked of him. Cart it up and look to make some space on the edge of the ruck, limit the offloads and defend the edge. He made 121m with 31 tackles against the Donkeys in his 1st 80min game in a long while. He's building nicely imo

 

[RABK]

He made 45m last week. 75m came from the line break where a Knights player passed him the ball in a 10m gap after a Broncos error and all he had to do was run straight. If you're going to include his 121m as some kind of endorsement of his form lets use reason here. He got bashed everytime he ran the ball. Averaging a whopping 4 metres per run.

 

[Joker's Wild]

75m? I question that. More like he made 75m and an extra 45m off the line break

Anyway his contributions are very similar to House and McKinnon and he is offering more than both Edwards and Costigan. All our forwards aside from Snowie have been getting "bashed" as you say.

Like I said, last week was his 1st 80min stint in a long time and I think he made a good fist of it.

 

[RABK]

I just remember him getting the ball near our 10m line and making it well into their half. Was at least a 50-60m run.

 

[RABK]

Costigan played 45 minutes with questionable fitness and made some great one on one tackles on bigger men and good 10m hit ups in his 25 tackles and 80 metres. Unfair to say Zeb is offering more. Costigan is offering more than Zeb with less fitness and less minutes.

He's becoming a forum favourite to heap shit on but he was 2nd only to Snowden against the Broncos because he actually took them on in attack and defence and bent them over.

 

[perverse]

these are Zeb's nrlstats.com stats for the Brisbane game (run metres):

hitups: 4 (31m)
runs: 6 (73m)
dummy half: 1 (7m)
"ruck runs" (whatever they are defined as): 2 (11m)

i would say his line break was included in the "Runs" category. if it was a 75m break then he made -2m with his other 5. i'd certainly believe it was a 30-40m break. i still don't think he went as bad as you think he did, RABK... but probably not as good as JW feels, either. it's not a place i'm comfortable with, but i'm gonna have to be in the middle on this one. i think he's improving, but his runs could be far more effective, as could his tackles. while im at it - his tackle stats are thus:

31 Tackles
1 (as in, a single) 1-on-1 tackle
4 Ineffective Tackles
4 Missed tackles

i'm not sure if the ineffectives or the missed are counted in the total count (i somewhat doubt it - possibly the ineffective ones). having said this, i think Zeb has always had a relatively high number of missed and ineffective. i think it's as much of a result of the sheer quantity of tackles he tries to involve himself in as anything else, although much like the rest of our pack you do see the shirt grabbing and whatnot creep in from time to time.

i don't have enough of a sample to really know how Zeb is going yet. what i can say, though, is i do think he's improving with every minute he's on the field... based as much on his body language and involvement as his stats. i think he's still building confidence in that neck of his, that takes time... particularly with such a scary injury. i'm constantly in total awe of athletes that can put these sorts of things behind them, i know it would be in the back of my mind every single tackle and hitup. the docs can tell you everything is fine, but you always know that it happened once already.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Nev does cop it on here but to be fair, so does Zeb lately and that's kinda my point. In the game against the Sharks he made more yardage, played more minutes and made more tackles than Nev.

Zeb's fitness would have to be well down and he stayed out there for the full 80min last week. Given his short stints in the previous 2 games Id say that is offering plenty.

I guess its all relative to what you think "offering more" means.

 

[RABK]

these are Zeb's nrlstats.com stats for the Brisbane game (run metres):

hitups: 4 (31m)
runs: 6 (73m)
dummy half: 1 (7m)
"ruck runs" (whatever they are defined as): 2 (11m)

i would say his line break was included in the "Runs" category. if it was a 75m break then he made -2m with his other 5. i'd certainly believe it was a 30-40m break. i still don't think he went as bad as you think he did, RABK... but probably not as good as JW feels, either. it's not a place i'm comfortable with, but i'm gonna have to be in the middle on this one. i think he's improving, but his runs could be far more effective, as could his tackles. while im at it - his tackle stats are thus:

31 Tackles
1 (as in, a single) 1-on-1 tackle
4 Ineffective Tackles
4 Missed tackles

i'm not sure if the ineffectives or the missed are counted in the total count (i somewhat doubt it - possibly the ineffective ones). having said this, i think Zeb has always had a relatively high number of missed and ineffective. i think it's as much of a result of the sheer quantity of tackles he tries to involve himself in as anything else, although much like the rest of our pack you do see the shirt grabbing and whatnot creep in from time to time.

i don't have enough of a sample to really know how Zeb is going yet. what i can say, though, is i do think he's improving with every minute he's on the field.

NRL stats while accurate with totals are well known to butcher the make up of those totals. I recall watching a game in which Watmough made a break from dummy half which constitutes a ruck run. When i checked the nrlstats later they never tallied a ruck run, let alone the 30m one he made.

I don't doubt it was a 40m run, but i'd be interested in someone who is able to watch the replay gauging the exact distance he ran. I just seem to recall he ran from inside our 20 to close to their 20. It is feasible he only made 10-15m from his other 5 'runs'.

 

[RABK]

Nev does cop it on here but to be fair, so does Zeb lately and that's kinda my point. In the game against the Sharks he made more yardage, played more minutes and made more tackles than Nev.

Zeb's fitness would have to be well down and he stayed out there for the full 80min last week. Given his short stints in the previous 2 games Id say that is offering plenty.

I guess its all relative to what you think "offering more" means.

Hmmm i agree. And i'm probably am been harsh on Zeb but if Perverse has been Zebs no1 fan then i haven't been far behind over the years. However i guess i was very disappointed to hear about him hosting a mad monday anti Bennett party. Whilst im sure Zeb didn't advertise it has such the mood was certainly as such and Zeb was the host. I've heard a few details that were never made public.

I think Bennett is giving Zeb an obvious opportunity to reclaim his best, but as Perverse mentioned it could be a test as much as an opportunity.

 

[Jono078]

Here's what no one has mentioned about Zeb. His error count.

I'm positive he's averaging more than 1 a game.

Not only that, they are crucial errors at bad times of the game, none bigger than in round 1.

 

[RABK]

We all want Zeb to get back to his 2009 form because he certainly wouldn't be making room for anyone including Beau Scott if he did. He was, based on Stats, the best fringe running back rower in the game 2008-2009.

That's a long time ago and as much as he might be improving he is a long way off that kind of form. If he wants to earn a new contract the improvement better pick up rapidly.

 

[doggone]

Well I am looking forward to what Wayne does, because as someone suggested he may be stupid, I don't think so! I think he knows more about the players, than some of the so call experts on this forum!

 

[Jobdog]

Here's what no one has mentioned about Zeb. His error count.

I'm positive he's averaging more than 1 a game.

Not only that, they are crucial errors at bad times of the game, none bigger than in round 1.

In fairness, every member of the team would be averaging around 1 error a game ...

 

[Jono078]

In fairness, every member of the team would be averaging around 1 error a game ...

Well no.. Because that wouldn't be true.

I don't have the stats in front of me. But I'm pretty sure Taia and Cuthbertson lead the team with 3-4 errors a piece.

The rest may have a drop here and there.

Taia and Cuthbertson's errors have been rubbish though, half of them unforced due to shit concentration and what not.

 

[Nuffy]

Its the nature of the errors which is most damning, they are unforced and untimely.

Its one thing to drop a ball when you get smashed, but these guys are coughing it up through rubbish passes and ill conceived ball playing.

As Jono said, its concentration and focus.

 

[Yosh]

I'm beginning to warm up to Zeb. He was looking much too light last year in his 1 game but this year he has stepped it up and looking better each game. He is getting his hands on the ball more and making a contribution. Can't say the same about Eddy...

I'm personally very worried about our prop situation... Faas hasn't hit any form yet and Adam is just shite imo... He isn't of a good enough quality to be starting for a team that wants to win more games than the Shark's one... If he is known for his off-loading ability, why isn't he coming off the bench to offer impact? Starting props should build a platform for the other forwards who come off the bench and I think Tui is much better suited for this role.

Hilder was woeful at 5/8th last week and personally I'm glad we have a real half back playing next to Mullen.

How long is Wes out for? I don't want Sau to ruin Aku's try scoring record this year. Or our season... What is with Sau? Can't defend, can't score a try, can't set up his winger, isn't tall enough to take high balls, can't step or beat a man... I'd personally rather have McKinnon because least he'll defend well.

I'd like to see this pack:

3. McKinnon

8. Snowden
9. Bedsy
10. Tui
11. Zeb
12. House
13. Costigan

14. Hilder
15. Faas
16. Cuthbo
17. Tets

What do you guys think?

 

[K-Man]

I wonder if House or Zeb will be Tyrone's protector.....

Something we need to work on as he will be targeted more than the Bronx targeted Mullo.

Logic suggests that Houston and Mullen will be on the right as usual, with Roberts defending left side between Tahu and Taia.

I doubt WB would throw Tyrone over to the right where Josh Morris has been destroying the likes of Hornby, just so that Houston can 'protect' him.

The Dogs will aim most of their traffic, so I think that's where Mullen and Houston will be as usual.

Having said that, personally I prefer Zeb on the right where he is not too far away from Uate. Zeb has killed it whenever he played right side (I reckon maybe only 20% of his games?) - but he always looks super dangerous and I definitely recall him having a very decent left to right flat ball that has put backs straight through massive holes.

Just on Zeb, I think he will come good. He's in my top favourite 3 players in the NRL at his best so I'm biased, but let's not forget what he has come back from. One NRL game after such an injury then an off-season cannot prepare you for the real thing.

You don't lose your 'feel' for the game through injury, and that's always been his biggest asset. He runs the best angles, he slips the pass to his centre when needed. I have hope.

And on a side, side note - a 2012 combination of Houston left backrower and Beau Scott right backrower does not look threatening enough in attack for my liking at all. Wherever and however i try to fit Scott into my '12 side, I feel like there is a lack of potency in that part of the field - given that he's smaller than all our 'too small' backrowers already.

 

[Stick]

I feel sorry for Sa'u. Either he keeps trying to force passes and feed his winger which hasn't been working for him (which will end up with him dropped again) or he plays his natural game and incurs the wrath of the RL world for not supplying Aku. I'm assuming he'll play right for sake of preserving the Jimmy/Tahu combination.

Wes is injured but Wayne has other options at centre. McKinnon in the backs relieves the jam of backrowers. Likiliki might be given his shot; how has he been playing for centurions?

If Sa'u doesn't come through in the next couple of weeks we might not see him again.