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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

Gronk

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1880-1910 - Temp goes down, CO2 creeps up - No correlation;
1910 - 1940 - Temp shoots up while CO2 barely moves (remember, we haven't Industrialised yet) - No correlation;
1940-1970 - Temp goes down, CO2 starts to climb a bit - No correlation;
1970-2000 - Both rise at a decent rate, as I stated originally;
2000 onwards - Temps flatten while CO2 climbs - No correlation.

Thanks for taking the time to prove my point, Gronk.

As you can now see, a pattern existed before CO2 could have had an effect on the climate (which would be around 1980) - 30 years down, 30 years up, 30 years down, 30 years up etc.

Thanks for taking the time to prove my point, Gronk.

Aaaaand thanks for overlooking my point.

You are focusing on snapshots in time and overlooking long term trends. I explained why temperature and CO2 sometimes do not move together.

As a merkin from NASA says ...

These temperature plateaus, or cooling spells, can be attributed to natural climate variability, explains Josh Willis, a climate scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. and a recent recipient of the 2009 Presidential Early Career Award for Scientists and Engineers. "Natural variability refers to naturally-occurring fluctuations or events that change Earth's climate on time scales ranging from years to decades. Big volcanic eruptions, for instance, can cause cooling that lasts for several years. When a volcano erupts, it blasts dust into the upper atmosphere where it reflects sunlight and cools the planet, a bit like a natural umbrella."

He goes on, "There are also all kinds of natural fluctuations that sometimes cause warming, sometimes cooling." Ocean changes, for instance, can have a big impact on the world's temperature. One example that Willis cites is the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, a pattern of warmer and cooler surface temperatures in the Pacific Ocean that can last between 10 and 30 years.

Another important example is El Niño, which is an abnormal warming of surface ocean waters in the eastern tropical Pacific that happens every three to eight years and can affect global temperatures for a year or two. Between 1997 and 1998, there was an unusually strong El Niño, and this caused 1998 to be one of the hottest years on record (Figure 1). When Easterling and Wehner dropped the 1998 temperature spike from the data altogether, and zoomed in on the readings from 1999 to 2008, they saw a strong warming trend over this period. But when the 1998 measurement is included in the data, it looks as if there is no overall warming between 1998 and 2008 at all.

The authors say that it is easy to 'cherry-pick' a period to reinforce a particular point of view. "Claims that global warming is not occurring that are derived from a cooling observed over short time periods ignore natural variability and are misleading."

What you have to look at, says Willis, is the long-term temperature readings that have been collected over the past century — which is exactly what Easterling and Wehner do in their study. Over that sort of time scale, global warming becomes apparent from observations of both our atmosphere and our ocean, which are intimately linked pieces of the climate puzzle.

https://climate.nasa.gov/news/175/the-ups-and-downs-of-global-warming/
 

Twizzle

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yeh, he's run his course, time for some one else
quote.gif
 

strider

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So climate change may exist or it may not.
Ignore it and we may completely f**k the planet and human species dies or use alternative energy sources and not worry.
I do not see what is such a hard choice? It can be a slow thing. Reduce plastics, better efficient cars, working from home or local. Car sharing apps?
Exactly

Even if there is no link to something specific, isnt it still better be avoid bad shit - like pumping smoggy crap into the environment
 

Gronk

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So climate change may exist or it may not.
Ignore it and we may completely f**k the planet and human species dies or use alternative energy sources and not worry.
I do not see what is such a hard choice? It can be a slow thing. Reduce plastics, better efficient cars, working from home or local. Car sharing apps?

Exactly

Even if there is no link to something specific, isnt it still better be avoid bad shit - like pumping smoggy crap into the environment

Yep, a low emissions earth only has an upside.
 

hindy111

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59,232
Yep, a low emissions earth only has an upside.

Guys like Allan Jones rant but most likely cause it effects his super funds if big companies aren't making bucks.

There is no reason in 20yrs we cant be on solar for atleast 50% of time. Pending on batteries longetivity maybe even 80%.
No reason for cars older then 10yrs or big v8s anymore either.
Creating more jobs in west will also save transport emissions.

Air cons older then 15yrs should also be replaced.
 

Bazal

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Well all countries must do it. Or only trade with ones that do.

The problem is good luck with that when China, for eg, is such a massive emitter.

How can you avoid trading with China? You can't.

That's one of a few reasons a carbon tax in Australia was such a painfully stupid and patronising idea. It literally does nothing to prevent emissions
 

hindy111

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I think a huge issues is also all the cheap garbage that comes from China and last 2yrs then needs to be ripped out and replaced. Especially plastic items. A high quality part could last 25yrs or even a lifetime. Companies making things to they purposely don't last a long time just so have to re buy ffs.
 

Bazal

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I think a huge issues is also all the cheap garbage that comes from China and last 2yrs then needs to be ripped out and replaced. Especially plastic items. A high quality part could last 25yrs or even a lifetime. Companies making things to they purposely don't last a long time just so have to re buy ffs.

Yep.

Realistically plastic waste is, and has been for years, a hugely understated problem. But because we live in the age of social media activism, people care more about whatever political fad is in vogue at the time.

Although now plastic waste is a political fad, which is actually worse sometimes because you get people banning single use straws, but then selling paper straws wrapped in plastic....
 

Gronk

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74,080
Guys like Allan Jones rant but most likely cause it effects his super funds if big companies aren't making bucks.

There is no reason in 20yrs we cant be on solar for atleast 50% of time. Pending on batteries longetivity maybe even 80%.
No reason for cars older then 10yrs or big v8s anymore either.
Creating more jobs in west will also save transport emissions.

Air cons older then 15yrs should also be replaced.

Alan Jones. Urgh. It’s the tight alliance between the cultural politics of old white farts and the power of fossil fuel and related industries. To acknowledge anthropogenic climate change is to empower the “leftys”, open the door to additional taxes and regulations, and threaten the power of the fossil fuel industry.

Here’s a question. Let’s just for a moment pause and wonder why the atypical climate change denier is Colin.
 
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Bandwagon

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41,993
Yep.

Realistically plastic waste is, and has been for years, a hugely understated problem. But because we live in the age of social media activism, people care more about whatever political fad is in vogue at the time.

Although now plastic waste is a political fad, which is actually worse sometimes because you get people banning single use straws, but then selling paper straws wrapped in plastic....

Plastic waste wouldn't be a problem if merkins thought about it's disposal, f**king shit merkins that treat our country like it's their very own personal tip should be shot repeatedly in the head with recycled plastic bullets until their skull becomes a similar consistency to their brain..
 

Eelogical

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22,557
Plastic waste wouldn't be a problem if merkins thought about it's disposal, f**king shit merkins that treat our country like it's their very own personal tip should be shot repeatedly in the head with recycled plastic bullets until their skull becomes a similar consistency to their brain..
Think of the emissions generated processing the corpse.
 

Bazal

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99,896
Plastic waste wouldn't be a problem if merkins thought about it's disposal, f**king shit merkins that treat our country like it's their very own personal tip should be shot repeatedly in the head with recycled plastic bullets until their skull becomes a similar consistency to their brain..

Agreed

But a lot of plastic waste is "properly disposed of" in that it comes out of landfill and into the system, too.

And given some of this stuff takes the lifespan of the universe to break down, it can be disposed of and come back to bite us thirty years later, too.
 

strider

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78,631
Yep.

Realistically plastic waste is, and has been for years, a hugely understated problem. But because we live in the age of social media activism, people care more about whatever political fad is in vogue at the time.

Although now plastic waste is a political fad, which is actually worse sometimes because you get people banning single use straws, but then selling paper straws wrapped in plastic....
So true

I bought something recently and it was cardboard wrapped in plastic wrapped in plastic

And those f**king coles collectable little shit crap .... ffs - just a tonne of plastic to throw away
 
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