OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[JokerEel]

What a funny video well done.

It was pretty entertaining.

 

[the phantom menace]

You should be in politics with those responses!

But obviously not on the side that is trying to remove jobs to give consultancies to their mates!

 

[JokerEel]

But obviously not on the side that is trying to remove jobs to give consultancies to their mates!

Agree 100% We all know that's what Dutton will do!

 

[Comfy]

And yesterday you wanted to hassle a fellow Orthodox brother? Shame on you, bro.

 

[Bandwagon]

I get that you're skeptical, but dismissing the argument as 'horseshit' doesn't really address the points I made. If government money makes private industry stagnate, why do we see private companies consistently innovating in sectors where they contract with the government—healthcare, defense, infrastructure, even space exploration?

Because you are talking about a completely different circumstance to begin with.

Government service delivery isn't driven by real competition for innovation, the consumer of the product does not choose from whom to consume, or the product they consume.

It's not a case of skepticism, it's a case of real world experience, over decades, outsourcing of government services is a failure. The only metric upon which it has succeeded is to create a smaller public service.

 

[Gronk]

Very odd.





NSW Cops strike force are saying that their investigation centres around if the caravan was parked in the street to be collected or parked with the intention to be found.

 

[JokerEel]

Because you are talking about a completely different circumstance to begin with.

Government service delivery isn't driven by real competition for innovation, the consumer of the product does not choose from whom to consume, or the product they consume.

It's not a case of skepticism, it's a case of real world experience, over decades, outsourcing of government services is a failure. The only metric upon which it has succeeded is to create a smaller public service.

You're right that government service delivery isn’t a typical consumer market, but that’s precisely why private industry often does a better job—because it introduces competition where government monopolies otherwise have no incentive to improve. When a government outsources, companies still have to bid for contracts, meet performance targets, and remain accountable, or they lose future work.

As for outsourcing being a failure ‘over decades,’ that depends on the industry and implementation. There are plenty of cases where privatization has led to cost savings, improved service, and better efficiency—telecom, infrastructure, and energy sectors being prime examples. Where outsourcing has failed, it’s often due to poor contract management, not because private industry is inherently worse. The problem isn't outsourcing itself..it's how it's executed.

 

[Bandwagon]

You're right that government service delivery isn’t a typical consumer market, but that’s precisely why private industry often does a better job—because it introduces competition where government monopolies otherwise have no incentive to improve. When a government outsources, companies still have to bid for contracts, meet performance targets, and remain accountable, or they lose future work.

As for outsourcing being a failure ‘over decades,’ that depends on the industry and implementation. There are plenty of cases where privatization has led to cost savings, improved service, and better efficiency—telecom, infrastructure, and energy sectors being prime examples. Where outsourcing has failed, it’s often due to poor contract management, not because private industry is inherently worse. The problem isn't outsourcing itself..it's how it's executed.

To be clear I don't really mean to lump all outsourcing together, there is plenty of room for it where you can't justify the resources and expertise in house, it's where it's being used to do day to day shit where having the capacity to do so is basically a no brainer. Or taking an every day government service at simply privatizing its delivery.

We've had dumb shit like departments having 10-15-20+ % of their "permanent" labour force being labour hire, because the work is there, but they don't count towards staff limits. That's dogma, not economics.

As for the successes you list there, gee it's f**king hard to say these have delivered to promise, energy sector is a clusterf**k where competition is limited to the margins of retailers for most consumers, and I don't know if you remember these beginning to be privatised, but I certainly do, the promise was that our electricity would be cheaper.

Yeah, that shit sure as f**k happened.

As for Telecom - Telstra. Opinion here, so grain of salt. They are the absolute worst company to deal with I have ever dealt with. And by no small margin. If I had any real choice, I'd have nothing to do with them for the rest of my natural life. Their offerings are overpriced, and their problem resolution is borderline geniused,

 

[JokerEel]

To be clear I don't really mean to lump all outsourcing together, there is plenty of room for it where you can't justify the resources and expertise in house, it's where it's being used to do day to day shit where having the capacity to do so is basically a no brainer. Or taking an every day government service at simply privatizing its delivery.

We've had dumb shit like departments having 10-15-20+ % of their "permanent" labour force being labour hire, because the work is there, but they don't count towards staff limits. That's dogma, not economics.

As for the successes you list there, gee it's f**king hard to say these have delivered to promise, energy sector is a clusterf**k where competition is limited to the margins of retailers for most consumers, and I don't know if you remember these beginning to be privatised, but I certainly do, the promise was that our electricity would be cheaper.

Yeah, that shit sure as f**k happened.

As for Telecom - Telstra. Opinion here, so grain of salt. They are the absolute worst company to deal with I have ever dealt with. And by no small margin. If I had any real choice, I'd have nothing to do with them for the rest of my natural life. Their offerings are overpriced, and their problem resolution is borderline geniused,

I get what you're saying—outsourcing for the sake of hitting artificial staffing limits is just bureaucratic nonsense, and I agree that some privatization efforts have been handled terribly. But that’s a problem with execution, not the concept itself.

On energy, yes, prices didn’t drop the way they were promised, but blaming that purely on privatization ignores the impact of government policy, market regulations, and infrastructure costs. The same goes for telecom—Telstra’s issues aren’t because they’re private but because they were once a government monopoly and still dominate certain infrastructure. When real competition exists, things improve—just look at how companies like Aussie Broadband have stepped up where Telstra fails.

My point is, privatization isn’t a magic bullet, but neither is government control. The key factor is whether there’s accountability, competition, and competent management, regardless of who runs the service.

 

[Bandwagon]

When real competition exists, things improve—just look at how companies like Aussie Broadband have stepped up where Telstra fails.

And this goes back to my original argument. Real competition does not exist in service delivery, because the end user doesn't get real choice, and the provider must only compete for the contract, not the customer.

The proof is in the pudding in regards to the current governments rebuilding of PS capacity, and the measurable improvement to customer service regards turn-around times and processing backlogs.

My point is, privatization isn’t a magic bullet, but neither is government control. The key factor is whether there’s accountability, competition, and competent management, regardless of who runs the service.

Agree, unfortunately though there are areas where competition doesn't exist, and really can't. And it's those areas where once you place it in private hands, profitability is the dominant driver, and for mine that simply should never be.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Just read the libs have put Jacinta Price as the shadow minister for "government efficiency". Good idea, one problem though they already have James Stevens as minister for "government waste reduction" which was created less than a year ago.

 

[Det.Wojciehowicz]

Nothing says "waste reduction" like having 2 people doing the very same job. Classic Rightard logic.

 

[JokerEel]

Nothing says "waste reduction" like having 2 people doing the very same job. Classic Rightard logic.

Hold your horses here Scomo was PM and also in charge of multiple portfolios nothing wrong with that at all..

 

[JokerEel]

And this goes back to my original argument. Real competition does not exist in service delivery, because the end user doesn't get real choice, and the provider must only compete for the contract, not the customer.

The proof is in the pudding in regards to the current governments rebuilding of PS capacity, and the measurable improvement to customer service regards turn-around times and processing backlogs.




Agree, unfortunately though there are areas where competition doesn't exist, and really can't. And it's those areas where once you place it in private hands, profitability is the dominant driver, and for mine that simply should never be.

Fair point,competition works best when there’s real accountability, and bad contract management leads to bad outcomes. But that’s a governance failure, not an inherent flaw in privatization.

Public sector rebuilding shows resourcing matters, but private industry, when structured correctly, can match or exceed that efficiency. Profit shouldn’t override service quality, but assuming government always does better ignores where private industry has outperformed.

 

[Det.Wojciehowicz]

Hold your horses here Scomo was PM and also in charge of multiple portfolios nothing wrong with that at all..

Except the portfolios weren't doing the exact same job. BIG difference.

 

[bazza]

You're right that government service delivery isn’t a typical consumer market, but that’s precisely why private industry often does a better job—because it introduces competition where government monopolies otherwise have no incentive to improve. When a government outsources, companies still have to bid for contracts, meet performance targets, and remain accountable, or they lose future work.

As for outsourcing being a failure ‘over decades,’ that depends on the industry and implementation. There are plenty of cases where privatization has led to cost savings, improved service, and better efficiency—telecom, infrastructure, and energy sectors being prime examples. Where outsourcing has failed, it’s often due to poor contract management, not because private industry is inherently worse. The problem isn't outsourcing itself..it's how it's executed.

I would be interested in hearing some real life examples where government services were outsourced and led to better service at a reduced cost?
Seems like most times they end up costing more for worse service

 

[Gronk]

I would be interested in hearing some real life examples where government services were outsourced and led to better service at a reduced cost?
Seems like most times they end up costing more for worse service

The coalition don't talk honestly about the consultant thing. Publicly they seek pats on the back by cutting gravy train workforces.



Then turn around and replace them with consultants at the same cost.




The cunning trick is that the Big 4 consultants are big LNP donors and offer cash cow positions for retired LNP pollies and staff..

Hasn't this consultant thing been exposed already as unreliable and compromised the ATO ? Why go back ?

 

[the phantom menace]

Just read the libs have put Jacinta Price as the shadow minister for "government efficiency". Good idea, one problem though they already have James Stevens as minister for "government waste reduction" which was created less than a year ago.

Yep, it's just a marketing move by the looks of it... Set to try and capitalise on the Trump-Musk column inches, and likely based on some polling saying that people aren't (yet) as offended by Price as they are by some other horrible LNP options.

 

[the phantom menace]

Fair point,competition works best when there’s real accountability, and bad contract management leads to bad outcomes. But that’s a governance failure, not an inherent flaw in privatization.

Public sector rebuilding shows resourcing matters, but private industry, when structured correctly, can match or exceed that efficiency. Profit shouldn’t override service quality, but assuming government always does better ignores where private industry has outperformed.

Sorry, but the privatisation mantra is now (quite rightly) seen just as laughably empty buzz words which only serve to support partisan mega-capitalist interests.

 

[JokerEel]

Sorry, but the privatisation mantra is now (quite rightly) seen just as laughably empty buzz words which only serve to support partisan mega-capitalist interests.

If privatization was just empty buzzwords, we wouldn’t see private industry excelling in areas like logistics, tech, and infrastructure. It’s not about partisan interests..it’s about outcomes. When done right, private sector involvement increases efficiency and innovation. The issue isn’t privatization itself; it’s how it’s managed