OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[Gary Gutful]

I remember well some of the more high profile march/protests organised in the '70s for things such as wanting to dam the Gordon/Franklin Rivers.
The nuclear testing on Mururoa and Fangataufa Atolls by the French.
There were quite a few others and some involved violence.
If there were no protests those pristine areas of Tasmania would now be under water.
If there were no protests the cancer rates in this country (as bad as they are) could possibly be much worse.
This situation is different because it's not on our doorstep.
People not wanting to see genocide and feeling like they must take some kind of action against it(however futile) and thus joining a march over the Harbour Bridge so their voice about it can be heard is not a bad thing.
You don't have to have picked a side either to want to do this.
Banning protests and marches is the ideal of a fascist Putting a slight disruption of Sydney traffic above an issue as important as this is the thinking of a self absorbed globalist.

Don't worry though, soon enough we'll all be living like the folks of Oslo in Norway. There won't be any traffic as there will be very few cars on the road and then the pesky protesters will have all the roadway in the world to march upon without putting anyone out for a few hours. You can watch from your seat on the Metro as you wizz past these despicable people.

Agree. Protests are an essential part of a functioning democracy and have been highly effective at times. It’s not something that I’d ever be inclined to do but I wouldn’t want to see them banned. As you say, that’s fascism.

 

[the phantom menace]

This is what kicked off the latest rounds of ongoing conflict. Things seemed to have been relatively calm.
The media rarely mention this anymore.

Yeah... except perhaps that was in response to continued incursions and clearances by the current Israeli government into Gaza and West Bank, which are outside their internationally agreed borders (but within the current Israeli government's desired land holdings - and the Orange man's plans for hotel building).

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

Agree. Protests are an essential part of a functioning democracy and have been highly effective at times. It’s not something that I’d ever be inclined to do but I wouldn’t want to see them banned. As you say, that’s fascism.

Well I don't believe that any country where a 2 party preferred Political system is in place, actually has a functioning democracy. What they have might look like one on the surface but the further you dig.
It was thought up as a divide and conquer tactic and nothing has changed.
It would take some pretty radical ideas to change it so it never will be changed because the only thing these pricks have over the free thinking elements of society is the threat of or actual use of violence and they have stockpiled enough of it and people prepared to administer it to subdue anyone who disagrees with the status quo, as evidenced here.
Please watch it all and take note of the excessive doublespeak and the way all these psycos laugh about it.

 

[hindy111]

Yeah... except perhaps that was in response to continued incursions and clearances by the current Israeli government into Gaza and West Bank, which are outside their internationally agreed borders (but within the current Israeli government's desired land holdings - and the Orange man's plans for hotel building).

I am neutral and take no sides just observing information but not absorbing it. Otherwise it potentially clouds your judgement. Especially once emotions become invovled.

As far as your reply goes, well I don't get your point. It almost sounds like you are justifying the attacks at the music festival. I hope not cause that's gross.

Trump is Trump. I can understand what he is trying to do in USA. But it's to similar to Gorbachev. Both countries where unshakeable superpowers with political dysfunctions and rich Elitist leaders with plans to try and save their countries. What happened? It just sped up the collapse.

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

I saw this and couldn't click it fast enough. With elation I began to read as the euphoria of my faith in humanity being restored swept over me like a mid spring evening on the Goldcoast.
You can't imagine the sorrow, the outright melancholy that followed, only to find that it in fact was not Penny Wong.
A Chinese woman has been charged with reckless foreign interference after she was allegedly tasked by China’s Public Security Bureau with spying on an Australian-based Buddhist group.
AFP Assistant Commissioner Stephen Nutt said on Monday that the woman, who is also an Australian permanent resident, was charged after search warrants were carried out at Canberra residences on Saturday. The reckless foreign interference charge carries a maximum sentence of 15 years’ jail.

AFP assistant commissioner Stephen Nutt.Credit:Alex Ellinghausen
“The AFP has alleged the woman … was tasked by China’s Public Security Bureau to covertly gather information about the Canberra branch of the Guan Yin Citta, a Buddhist association,” Nutt said.
The woman’s appearance in the ACT Magistrates Court on Monday comes just days after ASIO boss Mike Burgess sounded the alarm that Australia was increasingly becoming a target of espionage, costing the government more than $12 billion per year.

Nutt said the woman’s alleged “covert and deceptive conduct” aimed to collect information on the Buddhist group to support intelligence objectives of the Chinese government agency.

Related Article​

National security​

‘Spying at unprecedented levels’: ASIO boss sounds alarm on espionage threat​

He said Operation Autumn-Shield, launched in March after receiving intelligence from ASIO, was ongoing and that more people could be charged.
The investigation did not include dealings with the Chinese embassy, but Nutt declined to give further details, including information that could lead to the identification of the woman, because the ACT Magistrates’ Court had issued a suppression order.
Items, including electronic devices, were seized during the Canberra raids and will undergo forensic examination, the AFP said in a statement.


The AFP said in a statement it was the third time a foreign interference charge had been laid since the Commonwealth introduced the laws in 2018 – after a Victorian man and NSW man were charged in 2020 and 2023 respectively – but the first time relating to alleged community interference.
Nutt said foreign interference was a serious crime that undermined democracy and social cohesion.
“It is important to note that one of the best defences to foreign interference is increased community awareness to the threat and reporting of suspicious activity to authorities,” he said.
ASIO director-general Mike Burgess said the woman’s alleged foreign interference was an “appalling assault” on Australian values and sovereignty, and said his remarks last week made clear the government would have zero tolerance for such behaviour.

Related Article​

AFP​

First woman appointed to lead Australian Federal Police as Reece Kershaw retires a year early​

“Anyone who thinks it is acceptable to monitor, intimidate and potentially repatriate members of our diaspora communities should never underestimate our capabilities and resolve,” Burgess said in a statement.
Nutt said it was unclear how the intelligence gathered on the Buddhist community could be used, but it was a reminder of the importance of vigilance and prevention.
“As the director-general of ASIO has been on public record a number of times, foreign interference, espionage and other forms of national security issues can arise in threats from various actors, but also in various forms,” he said.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...interference-in-canberra-20250804-p5mk8n.html

 

[Matty Bhoy]

Here is a link for the Louis Theroux documentary The Settlers that I mentioned a few pages back. Mind boggling these Yanks can just move in and kick people out of their houses. Very sad to see.

2.7K views · 26 reactions | The Settlers - Louis Theroux | BBC TWO Louis Theroux spends time with the growing community of Israeli religious-nationalist settlers. Their settlements are illegal under international law, and they have been protected by

The Settlers - Louis Theroux | BBC TWO Louis Theroux spends time with the growing community of Israeli religious-nationalist settlers. Their settlements are illegal under international law, and they...

www.facebook.com

 

[the phantom menace]

I am neutral and take no sides just observing information but not absorbing it. Otherwise it potentially clouds your judgement. Especially once emotions become invovled.

As far as your reply goes, well I don't get your point. It almost sounds like you are justifying the attacks at the music festival. I hope not cause that's gross.

Not justifying. Maybe it's because (as you said) you don't absorb information you have observed - and are unaware of information you haven't observed prior to the music festival.

Again, not justifying that Hamas action, just saying the situation is a lot more long-standing and complex than the music festival being "what kicked off the latest rounds of ongoing conflict", and that if you look deeper things prior hadn't exactly "been relatively calm".

Trump is Trump. I can understand what he is trying to do in USA. But it's to similar to Gorbachev. Both countries where unshakeable superpowers with political dysfunctions and rich Elitist leaders with plans to try and save their countries. What happened? It just sped up the collapse.

Yeah, but Trump publicly posted that he wants to build a hotel on a (cleared) Gaza strip - land clearances outside of the internationally recognised borders of the current Israeli government, and which only can become cleared through what some would say the history of acts of genocide there.

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

Agree. Protests are an essential part of a functioning democracy and have been highly effective at times. It’s not something that I’d ever be inclined to do but I wouldn’t want to see them banned. As you say, that’s fascism.

I could be wrong Gary and will genuinely accept as fact if you deny it, I always got the impression that you might be a professional lobbyist. No need to confirm or deny if that suits you.
IF you are a professional lobbyist, then protesting is absolutely something you would and do participate in. The difference being that (if so) you get paid to do so.
If that doesn't apply to you, fine. It does apply to plenty of people who I'm sure you well know.
IMO this is where democracy starts failing. Lobbyists, especially those on the payroll of an industry that has lots of resources, lots and lots of them, is the point in the system where the boundaries between doing the right thing v profits and economic growth become blurry for a lot of the players involved.
That blurriness erodes democracy.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I could be wrong Gary and will genuinely accept as fact if you deny it, I always got the impression that you might be a professional lobbyist. No need to confirm or deny if that suits you.
IF you are a professional lobbyist, then protesting is absolutely something you would and do participate in. The difference being that (if so) you get paid to do so.
If that doesn't apply to you, fine. It does apply to plenty of people who I'm sure you well know.
IMO this is where democracy starts failing. Lobbyists, especially those on the payroll of an industry that has lots of resources, lots and lots of them, is the point in the system where the boundaries between doing the right thing v profits and economic growth become blurry for a lot of the players involved.
That blurriness erodes democracy.

I’m not a professional lobbyist but do deal with Governments in my job like a lot of people. Im not overtly political. I used to vote LNP but have now voted Labour at the last two federal elections.

Governments serve the people and many sectors of the community in my view need representatives to fight for their needs. That includes regions, underprivileged communities and even industry sectors that all contribute enormously to our society.

Where it becomes tricky is if those advocates are not genuinely acting in the interests of those they claim to represent. Many don’t, but equally many in Government don’t either.

It will always be tricky ‘deciding what’s right’. Who decides what is right? Right for who?

Often there is a tendency to oversimplify complex problems as ‘right v wrong’, ‘economic growth v conservation’ etc. I think this does a disservice to these complex problems and is often why many issues such as indigenous disadvantage, housing shortages etc remain unresolved. Much easier to pick a side of the debate and dig your heels in than it is consider all views and act accordingly.

Does this all mean that our democracy is flawed? Possibly, but I’m yet to see a better model when you overlay humans and their inherent self-interest.

 

[hindy111]

Not justifying. Maybe it's because (as you said) you don't absorb information you have observed - and are unaware of information you haven't observed prior to the music festival.

Again, not justifying that Hamas action, just saying the situation is a lot more long-standing and complex than the music festival being "what kicked off the latest rounds of ongoing conflict", and that if you look deeper things prior hadn't exactly "been relatively calm".

Yeah, but Trump publicly posted that he wants to build a hotel on a (cleared) Gaza strip - land clearances outside of the internationally recognised borders of the current Israeli government, and which only can become cleared through what some would say the history of acts of genocide there.

I don't believe what Israel claims. I don't believe what Palestine says. So it makes it impossible for me to pick a side when I think/know they are both lying and distorting facts . All I can do is try and join the dots.
I've lost trust in the world tbh

 

[Gary Gutful]

Well I don't believe that any country where a 2 party preferred Political system is in place, actually has a functioning democracy. What they have might look like one on the surface but the further you dig.
It was thought up as a divide and conquer tactic and nothing has changed.
It would take some pretty radical ideas to change it so it never will be changed because the only thing these pricks have over the free thinking elements of society is the threat of or actual use of violence and they have stockpiled enough of it and people prepared to administer it to subdue anyone who disagrees with the status quo, as evidenced here.
Please watch it all and take note of the excessive doublespeak and the way all these psycos laugh about it.

What model of Government in your view would be more effective than what we have? Appreciate you have said it is fairly radical and would never happen, but let’s assume it can happen and discuss it on its merits.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I don't believe what Israel claims. I don't believe what Palestine says. So it makes it impossible for me to pick a side when I think/know they are both lying and distorting facts . All I can do is try and join the dots.
I've lost trust in the world tbh

That’s a sensible position and where I sit as well.

 

[Suitman]

So it makes it impossible for me to pick a side when I think/know they are both lying and distorting facts .

See, this is where picking sides is weird. Imo.
I agree with you.
In war or conflict, no side is perfect.
Labor or Liberal, neither side is perfect.
Yet, some on here have an us or them bias which completely clouds their judgement.

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

I’m not a professional lobbyist but do deal with Governments in my job like a lot of people.

Good to hear

Im not overtly political.

You don't say!

I used to vote LNP but have now voted Labour at the last two federal elections.

I'm at a loss how any Australian born person could vote for a political party that allowed one of their senators and the Minister for Foreign Affairs to host a pre election function where only members of the Chinese community were allowed to attend.

Governments serve the people

I disagree. The amount of self serving politicians who have been exposed as being so over the years is a big enough sample size for me to conclude that there is enough of them to conclude that the majority of them are nothing more than a gang of thieves that have their constituents concerns on the very bottom of their to do list.

and many sectors of the community in my view need representatives to fight for their needs. That includes regions, underprivileged communities and even industry sectors that all contribute enormously to our society.

Industry should be regulated by the Gov. Not making representations on mining Ningaloo or GBR or other such pristine places.
If you believe in separation of religion and state (as I do) then religion needs no lobbying. It should be outlawed. (the lobbying, not the religion).

Where it becomes tricky is if those advocates are not genuinely acting in the interests of those they claim to represent. Many don’t, but equally many in Government don’t either.

You don't say.

It will always be tricky ‘deciding what’s right’. Who decides what is right? Right for who?

Foremost right for the planet earth and secondly right for the majority of the inhabitants upon it, now and in the future.

Often there is a tendency to oversimplify complex problems as ‘right v wrong’,

Often there is a tendency to make much more complex a simple problem as 'right v wong'.

‘economic growth v conservation’ etc. I think this does a disservice to these complex problems and is often why many issues such as indigenous disadvantage, housing shortages etc remain unresolved.

Are you really going to try and tell me that these 2 random problems you have picked out of thin air are unresolved due to an oversimplication that you get to label as an economic growth v conservation issue?

Much easier to pick a side of the debate and dig your heels in than it is consider all views and act accordingly.

You have insulted me and I challenge you to a duel at dawn!

Does this all mean that our democracy is flawed?

If you havn't got that yet, yes it does.

Possibly, but I’m yet to see a better model when you overlay humans and their inherent self-interest.

The humans with their inherent self interest ARE the f**king problem Gary. Maybe the better model is to rid the earth of totally absorbed, self interested humans?
2030 is coming for us all.
IT's time to get invested in the human race as a whole. If we fail to that, we are doomed.

 

[JohnStoppafarty]

What model of Government in your view would be more effective than what we have? Appreciate you have said it is fairly radical and would never happen, but let’s assume it can happen and discuss it on its merits.

Thanks for asking and I am happy to discuss that with you. I realise there will be faults to my system and am happy to hear, discuss and evolve them from that point.
It won't however be tonight as my time is limited.
I think about it now n then and find flaws in my own thinking at times.
If your arguments are in good faith, I'll be happy to hear them but you must realise that I didn't go to Uni. You might have for better choice of words, have to dumb it a down a bit.
If you can do that, you're on.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Good to hear

Thanks

You don't say!

Not sure what you are getting at.

I'm at a loss how any Australian born person could vote for a political party that allowed one of their senators and the Minister for Foreign Affairs to host a pre election function where only members of the Chinese community were allowed to attend.

I’m at a loss at how someone could think that only one party has its faults. I do my research ahead of every election.

I disagree. The amount of self serving politicians who have been exposed as being so over the years is a big enough sample size for me to conclude that there is enough of them to conclude that the majority of them are nothing more than a gang of thieves that have their constituents concerns on the very bottom of their to do list.

I made the exact same point a few sentences later.

Industry should be regulated by the Gov. Not making representations on mining Ningaloo or GBR or other such pristine places.
If you believe in separation of religion and state (as I do) then religion needs no lobbying. It should be outlawed. (the lobbying, not the religion).

Industry is regulated by Gov and I’m pretty sure religion has its fair share of lobbying (struggled to understand your point on this).

Foremost right for the planet earth and secondly right for the majority of the inhabitants upon it, now and in the future.

Vague. According to who and by what metrics?

Often there is a tendency to make much more complex a simple problem as 'right v wong'.

Disagree and you haven’t really done much to help the simplification cause.

Are you really going to try and tell me that these 2 random problems you have picked out of thin air are unresolved due to an oversimplication that you get to label as an economic growth v conservation issue?

Not my argument. You have sliced the shit out of my text and made quotes where sentences don’t even finish. Read the paragraph in its entirety.

You have insulted me and I challenge you to a duel at dawn!

I wasn’t even thinking of you when I wrote this. Just something I’ve seen a lot of.

If you havn't got that yet, yes it does.

I got it from the start and argued that self interest is a key factor.

The humans with their inherent self interest ARE the f**king problem Gary. Maybe the better model is to rid the earth of totally absorbed, self interested humans?
2030 is coming for us all.
IT's time to get invested in the human race as a whole. If we fail to that, we are doomed.

Everyone is self interested to a degree. It’s about channelling that self interest in positive ways that benefit others which is one of the benefits of capitalism for example.

There are some shit things going on (like there always has been) but I don’t share your pessimism. The human race is very resilient. We are far from being doomed.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Thanks for asking and I am happy to discuss that with you. I realise there will be faults to my system and am happy to hear, discuss and evolve them from that point.
It won't however be tonight as my time is limited.
I think about it now n then and find flaws in my own thinking at times.
If your arguments are in good faith, I'll be happy to hear them but you must realise that I didn't go to Uni. You might have for better choice of words, have to dumb it a down a bit.
If you can do that, you're on.

I thought I was dumbing it down!

I’m genuinely interested in discussing and not looking to score points on this.

You have a different perspective which I am keen to understand and explore.

 

[Avenger]

See, this is where picking sides is weird. Imo.
I agree with you.
In war or conflict, no side is perfect.
Labor or Liberal, neither side is perfect.
Yet, some on here have an us or them bias which completely clouds their judgement.

Some on here also condemn an entire race based on the actions of their leader.

Your hypocrisy is unprecedented.

 

[King-Gutho94]

Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton subpoenaed in Jeffrey Epstein congressional probe

www.9news.com.au

The Clinton's have been subpoenaed

 

[Gronk]

Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton subpoenaed in Jeffrey Epstein congressional probe

www.9news.com.au

The Clinton's have been subpoenaed

More games

US House speaker shuts down chamber to block Epstein vote

The decision to bring forward the summer recess means Republican leaders can delay a politically fraught vote on the disclosures.

www.bbc.com

Remember how there were no files ? No List ? So why are they blocking it ?

So now they have called for a bunch of people to testify* before an oversight committee.

*Previously, a whole bunch of Republicans were subpoenaed to appear before random committees and didn't bother to show up. They were not prosecuted because the matter must go before the DOJ and he/she must then issue warrants for arrest. That won't happen because it will set a dangerous precedent. So will the Clintons etc turn up ? I bet the GOP are banking on the hope that they don't.

Everyone wants merkins to be held to account, but an oversight committee where they control the narrative, can limit how a witness can answer etc can end up to be a stunt rather than a worthwhile exercise.

Just release the f**king files. Make it safe for girls to testify and believe their words. Jail people's arses, democrat, republican or non US citizen.