Pacific giant killers!

[Evil Homer]

I had no idea that league in the UK was in such rapid decline. Bloody hell, 39% in 11 yrs and almost 10% in the last year. This is serious. Look at the number of English playing for other nations as heritage players and the implications are widespread.
The need to devote resources to the NH is urgent. The heartland needs to feed developing areas, but our original heartland is in trouble.

Like the other poster said, the decline in participation numbers is not such a big deal, you can blame the fact that people have better things to do now than pay money to get physically bashed up every weekend. Open age amateur RL is not too relevant to anything outside of itself anyway, I doubt there are any potential pro players being lost in that decline and in fact from the juniors POV it's probably a lot better than it was. We'll take your money though if you want to give it to us.

 

[Caped Crusader]

Mate my oringial point was you get them when they are washed up, not in the prime. I don’t think giving them shit loads is the way to go, develop your own, give them professional contracts. Why waste the spots on these washed up has beens. It’s hurting your standard and league. Wake up.

Its not hurting the standard of the ESL. Most of those players have gone really well and likely brought over some much needed experience and knowledge with them.

 

[Springs09]

The decline in player numbers I'm sure is consistent across all sports. Sport is hard. People don't want to do hard things anymore, they want to play on their phones.

My local rugby league comp (Group 20 in NSW) has always had problems with the U18s comp, and usually only has 6 or 7 of 9 clubs put in a team. Meanwhile, the local soccer comp (which used to have 8 Griffith clubs compared to RL's 2) is in danger of folding with many clubs applying to join the Wagga comp. Griffith is half Italian so soccer has always been the most popular sport in terms of participants. Considering it can barely get a comp now it seems to me that RL's participation numbers dropping is an indication of sport demographics changing as a whole, rather than our popularity declining.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Yeh, heritage players is fine for these Pacific nations. What they need to be developing is a fan culture...

The players will always be there. What we need to ensure is that, whenever there is an athlete able to compete at the top level, his dream is NRL and Tongan RL.

Aus has enough academies, the national bodies for the Islands need to be aiming for a fan culture like PNG; worshiping the game like a religion.

Yep, spot on. Given their populations, heratige teams are fine for Tonga and Samoa. We just need a solid amateur domestic scene, pathways for the more talented players and home tests for the national teams.

 

[Pommy]

Its not hurting the standard of the ESL. Most of those players have gone really well and likely brought over some much needed experience and knowledge with them.

I don’t think having Australians in England hurts, but the actions of them is hurting the sport.
Sandow
Segayaro
Hiku
Have all been mentioned since I got home. The sport needs to come up with a way to make players breaking contracts have very real repurcutions like it does in Football.

 

[Stallion]

The decline in player numbers I'm sure is consistent across all sports. Sport is hard. People don't want to do hard things anymore, they want to play on their phones.

My local rugby league comp (Group 20 in NSW) has always had problems with the U18s comp, and usually only has 6 or 7 of 9 clubs put in a team. Meanwhile, the local soccer comp (which used to have 8 Griffith clubs compared to RL's 2) is in danger of folding with many clubs applying to join the Wagga comp. Griffith is half Italian so soccer has always been the most popular sport in terms of participants. Considering it can barely get a comp now it seems to me that RL's participation numbers dropping is an indication of sport demographics changing as a whole, rather than our popularity declining.

Beg to differ. Junior numbers have significantly dropped in Newcastle. Other codes numbers have increased. I believe a lack of development work in the schools (one group of 3 people for Backyard league for the whole area) and the playing of local senior football on Sundays has alienated and compelled youngsters to play 'user friendly' codes like union/Afl that play on socially acceptable Saturdays. This is the reality in Newcastle. District clubs are enticing players from other outer suburbs as they cannot keep their juniors whom are basically going to union. If the District comp elected to play on Saturdays it would create a whole new relevance for rugby league with younger people. ATM RL is on the outer as far as social relevance and attractiveness to play for younger people. Purely to do with playing mostly on Sundays and giving other codes the much more socially appealing Saturday game day & night funtime!
Btw the fact playing games on Sundays impedes the recovery of players after a game is another major deterent to young people playing district rugby league. Instead of having Sunday to help recover the district players are having to go to work on Monday and supposedly work on injuries! It's ludicrous whats going on! Not user friendly for players and the community at large. This has eroded the relevance and attractiveness of playing RL especially in the inner city clubs where all clubs elect to play most games( 20 out of a possible 24 home games for the 3 inner city clubs on Sunday). Not surprisingly these clubs all failed miserably in the under19s competition this season with the Saturday playing coalfields clubs of Maitland and Cessnock playing the 19s grandfinal.

 

[Irish-bulldog]

At least I started an interesting discussion with those who are more informed about the state of the SL then I am lol.

 

[StadiumXIII]

Well those pacific teams are more important than any those continents you listed they the backbone of the game. They have bought legitimacy and colour to the game. The entertainment given by these teams has propelled rugby league into world households. Geez id say without the pacific the game would be bereft of anything

That's exactly right the Pacific Islands have provided more to rugby league than any area, the NRL( and Super League to a lesser extent) is filled with Pacific Islanders, more needs to be done to nurture the players coming through. We need more semi/pro clubs competing in the Intrust Super Cups. PNG already have the Hunters and hopefully Fiji is approved for 2019, then somewhere down the line they can add Samoa and Tonga. A Pacific 6 Nations with Aus, NZ, Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga and if Australia don't want to be involved we can have the Cook Islands instead. Australia can play at least one test a year in the Islands and visit schools etc.. this will already be a huge boost for Pacific RL!

 

[DC80]

The decline in player numbers I'm sure is consistent across all sports. Sport is hard. People don't want to do hard things anymore, they want to play on their phones.

My local rugby league comp (Group 20 in NSW) has always had problems with the U18s comp, and usually only has 6 or 7 of 9 clubs put in a team. Meanwhile, the local soccer comp (which used to have 8 Griffith clubs compared to RL's 2) is in danger of folding with many clubs applying to join the Wagga comp. Griffith is half Italian so soccer has always been the most popular sport in terms of participants. Considering it can barely get a comp now it seems to me that RL's participation numbers dropping is an indication of sport demographics changing as a whole, rather than our popularity declining.

Not really. It's predominantly collision sports that this applies to. I provided the link to playing numbers, here are more specific, in England over the last 10 years,

Association football up 8.75% to 1.8 million participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/football/

Cycling up 15.7% to 1.9 million participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/cycling/

Athletics up 31.5% to 2.2 million participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/athletics/

Rugby league down 39% to 44,900 participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

In Australia, "Football was streets ahead of its nearest rival, with 1.086 million players. Golf (685,732) was second, followed by Australian rules football (635,627) and netball (625,721) while cricket was sixth and rugby union did not feature at all."
http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2016/12/08/most-popular-sport-in-australia/

As I mentioned previously though I'm not really concerned with the numbers playing RL as the sport will always be very strong in the heartlands. It's so deeply entrenched in the culture that I can't see anything endangering it. Wigan, St Helens, Castleford, Widnes etc, these places live for Rugby league. When you say these places to people the first thing they think of is the sport. We have 30 pro teams and just over 1000 players that make a living from the sport here, as Phil Caplan states, so we are still pretty healthy even with those numbers that play it.

 

[Stallion]

Not really. It's predominantly collision sports that this applies to. I provided the link to playing numbers, here are more specific, in England over the last 10 years,

Association football up 8.75% to 1.8 million participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/football/

Cycling up 15.7% to 1.9 million participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/cycling/

Athletics up 31.5% to 2.2 million participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/athletics/

Rugby league down 39% to 44,900 participants
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2017/02/15/popular-sport-england/rugby-league/

In Australia, "Football was streets ahead of its nearest rival, with 1.086 million players. Golf (685,732) was second, followed by Australian rules football (635,627) and netball (625,721) while cricket was sixth and rugby union did not feature at all."
http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/football/2016/12/08/most-popular-sport-in-australia/

As I mentioned previously though I'm not really concerned with the numbers playing RL as the sport will always be very strong in the heartlands. It's so deeply entrenched in the culture that I can't see anything endangering it. Wigan, St Helens, Castleford, Widnes etc, these places live for Rugby league. When you say these places to people the first thing they think of is the sport. We have 30 pro teams and just over 1000 players that make a living from the sport here, as Phil Caplan states, so we are still pretty healthy even with those numbers that play it.

Still would suggest that the virtues of this contact sport(RL) is far and away more potent for the developing individual than other football codes . Purely due to its intensity, commitment and inclusive rules. Unfortunately these virtues are not being sold at large therefore Mums and Dads are not appreciating the positive effects of playing rugby league . The code is being undersold to the public at large. An improved marketing of RL in relation to its immense benefits in developing sporstmanship, courage and commitment would grow the game.

 

[DC80]

Still would suggest that the virtues of this contact sport(RL) is far and away more potent for the developing individual than other football codes . Purely due to its intensity, commitment and inclusive rules. Unfortunately these virtues are not being sold at large therefore Mums and Dads are not appreciating the positive effects of playing rugby league . The code is being undersold to the public ar large. An improved marketing of RL in relation to its immense benefits in developing sporstmanship, courage and commitment would grow the game.

Apparently in Australia one factor that is putting some off is due to the much physically bigger Pacific Islanders. Your average 14 year old Caucasian being more slight than a similar aged Samoan for instance.

 

[Springs09]

Beg to differ. Junior numbers have significantly dropped in Newcastle. Other codes numbers have increased. I believe a lack of development work in the schools (one group of 3 people for Backyard league for the whole area) and the playing of local senior football on Sundays has alienated and compelled youngsters to play 'user friendly' codes like union/Afl that play on socially acceptable Saturdays. This is the reality in Newcastle. District clubs are enticing players from other outer suburbs as they cannot keep their juniors whom are basically going to union. If the District comp elected to play on Saturdays it would create a whole new relevance for rugby league with younger people. ATM RL is on the outer as far as social relevance and attractiveness to play for younger people. Purely to do with playing mostly on Sundays and giving other codes the much more socially appealing Saturday game day & night funtime!
Btw the fact playing games on Sundays impedes the recovery of players after a game is another major deterent to young people playing district rugby league. Instead of having Sunday to help revover the district players are having to go to work on Monday and supposedly work on injuries! It's ludicrous whats going on! Not user friendly for players and the community at large. This has eroded the relevance and attractiveness of playing RL especially in the inner city clubs where all clubs elect to play most games( 20 out of a possible 24 home games for the 3 inner city clubs on Sunday). Not surprisingly these clubs all failed miserably in the under19s competition this season with the Saturday playing coalfields clubs of Maitland and Cessnock playing the 19s grandfinal.

Well why hasn't anything been said anywhere?

Sundays have nothing to do with anything. All junior footy is on Saturdays. Sundays is a far easier time to play for this reason, as well as the fact that a lot more people work Saturdays than Sundays. If we ever play Saturdays out here we miss half our squad unless it's a home night game.

You are using Sundays as an excuse. If the numbers have dropped that much then there is something far worse going on than 'aw I have to play Sundays and I'm a bit sore at work on Monday'.

Whatever the case, Newcastle is not Sydney and is certainly not the rest of the state.

As I said before, sport is hard. Back when the population was much less we had AFL on Saturday and league on Sunday so that players could play both. That would be unthinkable to most people now. People can barely be bothered to play one sport and not because they don't like it, it's because they are lazy. For fitness they go to the gym once a week. U18s would prefer to drink and fail to pick-up girls. Rugby league is a commitment. I have to take off 4 hours of work a week to drive to training, travel 100s of Kms on the weekends and then hobble around for the next two days. Once people had nothing better to do and loved that shit, but now it's a bit too hard.

As for those participation figures, AFL includes Auskick which is garbage, and we don't include touch football in ours. I don't know how they calculate cycling, athletics and golf but I highly doubt there would be that many in organised competitions week-to-week.

 

[Stallion]

Well why hasn't anything been said anywhere?

Sundays have nothing to do with anything. All junior footy is on Saturdays. Sundays is a far easier time to play for this reason, as well as the fact that a lot more people work Saturdays than Sundays. If we ever play Saturdays out here we miss half our squad unless it's a home night game.

You are using Sundays as an excuse. If the numbers have dropped that much then there is something far worse going on than 'aw I have to play Sundays and I'm a bit sore at work on Monday'.

Whatever the case, Newcastle is not Sydney and is certainly not the rest of the state.

As I said before, sport is hard. Back when the population was much less we had AFL on Saturday and league on Sunday so that players could play both. That would be unthinkable to most people now. People can barely be bothered to play one sport and not because they don't like it, it's because they are lazy. For fitness they go to the gym once a week. U18s would prefer to drink and fail to pick-up girls. Rugby league is a commitment. I have to take off 4 hours of work a week to drive to training, travel 100s of Kms on the weekends and then hobble around for the next two days. Once people had nothing better to do and loved that shit, but now it's a bit too hard.

As for those participation figures, AFL includes Auskick which is garbage, and we don't include touch football in ours. I don't know how they calculate cycling, athletics and golf but I highly doubt there would be that many in organised competitions week-to-week.

Many variables in your rant!? For a start all senior district rugby league in Newcastle was played on Saturdays prior to 1970. The decision to go to Sunday games was made to capitalize on the church crowd. This worked to some extent then that market passed away. We now have other codes gaining our juniors with regular monotony over many decades due to the lack of Senior Saturday football particularly in the inner city clubs. When a club can only muster 3 to 4 genuine local juniors for under19s and the local union club attracts 50 under19s and the union club only plays on Saturdays whereas the RL club plays mostly Sundays their is an issue for the code. The day of play is significant and a major reason for the consistent migration to union by league juniors. If you cant work that out I would suggest your thinking is part of the cause for the decrease in junior numbers for rugby league. Poor development targeting and scheduling are vitally important considerations when people decide to commit to a sport.
Junior footy prior to 1970 was played on a Sunday. The game was flourishing in these times and its time the game became user friendly for the players and fans again. Saturday senior local footy is a big part of getting the locals back into rugby-league and juniors(maybe not all) can play on Sundays. Its time to get things right again. Otherwise rugby league is marginalised from local communities and aspiring footballers as they both choose the socially attractive Saturday compared to Sunday. Another positive to Saturday games is that the disposable income of fans is more prevalent than on a Sunday. It's common sense when really thinking about it!? This is a fundamental consideration and 'must do move' for future rugby league development and relevance.Learning from the past will assist the game into the future.

 

[Stallion]

Apparently in Australia one factor that is putting some off is due to the much physically bigger Pacific Islanders. Your average 14 year old Caucasian being more slight than a similar aged Samoan for instance.

This is a consideration however plenty of Caucasians are playing the socially relevant and appealing (due to Saturday gametimes) rugby union. This is certainly happening in inner city Newcastle.

 

[DC80]

This is a consideration however plenty of Caucasians are playing the socially relevant and appealing (due to Saturday gametimes) rugby union. This is certainly happening in inner city Newcastle.

By all accounts though RU participation numbers in Australia have fallen off a cliff since 2007. This coincides with the falling television viewing figures and stadium attendances. Without the foreign tv money namely from Sky in the U.K. that pays substantial amounts for the four nations involving Australia, NZ, South Africa and Argentina, as well as other international test matches involving Australia, the financial state of Australian RU would be in dire straits. As a sport it is being propped up by foreign money. Depending on its own market Aussie RL is financially sound, conversely Aussie RU would be in much bigger trouble than it's already in if it only had its own market to sustain it.

 

[Stallion]

By all accounts though RU participation numbers in Australia have fallen off a cliff since 2007. This coincides with the falling television viewing figures and stadium attendances. Without the foreign tv money namely from Sky in the U.K. that pays substantial amounts for the four nations involving Australia, NZ, South Africa and Argentina, as well as other international test matches involving Australia, the financial state of Australian RU would be in dire straits. As a sport it is being propped up by foreign money. Depending on its own market Aussie RL is financially sound, conversely Aussie RU would be in much bigger trouble than it's already in if it only had its own market to sustain it.

Another factor that RU has in its war chest that RL does not is that it is propagated by establishment based organisations . For example when shit hits the fan just like you have indicated, this code is able to ride through it with such support. The same cannot be said for rugby league which is purely reliant upon the perils of the market place. What rugby league does have is a much better sports product however for reasons just alluded to its appropriate growth and presence is not guaranteed or for that matter encouraged. Things like not being recognised as a sport by influential international sporting bodies are a case in point.
The rugby union numbers in my city are holding up very well? In fact due to playing mostly on Saturday this code pilfers rugby league junior playing ranks on a yearly basis. The young people see that they can enjoy their Saturday night without a game day commitment on Sunday (as with all inner district city RL clubs)and enjoy their weekend with social relevance. This scenario is damaging rugby league in Newcastle and things should change back to what worked prior to 1970 whereby all senior RL was played on Saturdays and alot of junior footy was played on Sunday. Otherwise the game will continue to be on the outer as far as local social/cultural relevance is concerned.

 

[Springs09]

Many variables in your rant!? For a start all senior district rugby league in Newcastle was played on Saturdays prior to 1970. The decision to go to Sunday games was made to capitalize on the church crowd. This worked to some extent then that market passed away. We now have other codes gaining our juniors with regular monotony over many decades due to the lack of Senior Saturday football particularly in the inner city clubs. When a club can only muster 3 to 4 genuine local juniors for under19s and the local union club attracts 50 under19s and the union club only plays on Saturdays whereas the RL club plays mostly Sundays their is an issue for the code. The day of play is significant and a major reason for the consistent migration to union by league juniors. If you cant work that out I would suggest your thinking is part of the cause for the decrease in junior numbers for rugby league. Poor development targeting and scheduling are vitally important considerations when people decide to commit to a sport.
Junior footy prior to 1970 was played on a Sunday. The game was flourishing in these times and its time the game became user friendly for the players and fans again. Saturday senior local footy is a big part of getting the locals back into rugby-league and juniors(maybe not all) can play on Sundays. Its time to get things right again. Otherwise rugby league is marginalised from local communities and aspiring footballers as they both choose the socially attractive Saturday compared to Sunday. Another positive to Saturday games is that the disposable income of fans is more prevalent than on a Sunday. It's common sense when really thinking about it!? This is a fundamental consideration and 'must do move' for future rugby league development and relevance.Learning from the past will assist the game into the future.

Rubbish. It's not a problem for anyone but Newcastle. Can't see anyone else blaming Sundays.

But how can the juniors play on Sunday? They will be sore for school on Monday and you will lose junior numbers!

And honestly which local club are you talking about? If Union is doing better than league, where they have the first grade Newcastle comp as well as the NHRL with 4 senior divisions, then Union is doing pretty damn well.

 

[Stallion]

Rubbish. It's not a problem for anyone but Newcastle. Can't see anyone else blaming Sundays.

But how can the juniors play on Sunday? They will be sore for school on Monday and you will lose junior numbers!

And honestly which local club are you talking about? If Union is doing better than league, where they have the first grade Newcastle comp as well as the NHRL with 4 senior divisions, then Union is doing pretty damn well.

Union popularity in Newcastle.
Union is going very well in Newcastle! The union clubs are being inundated by players and waiting lists along with lower level clubs are being created.
Player welfare point.
Different consequences champ! The RL adult players are missing work and not school through injury! Kids are a bit more flexible than the adult players. It's not as if Saturdays for seniors and Sundays for juniors has not occured before. The game was flourishing when this was occuring in the 60s. Over decades rugby league has declined whilst other codes have increased in numbers. However the 2nd division RL is thriving as they play on Saturdays. This is what's happening in Newcastle.

 

[Perth Red]

That's exactly right the Pacific Islands have provided more to rugby league than any area, the NRL( and Super League to a lesser extent) is filled with Pacific Islanders, more needs to be done to nurture the players coming through. We need more semi/pro clubs competing in the Intrust Super Cups. PNG already have the Hunters and hopefully Fiji is approved for 2019, then somewhere down the line they can add Samoa and Tonga. A Pacific 6 Nations with Aus, NZ, Fiji, PNG, Samoa, Tonga and if Australia don't want to be involved we can have the Cook Islands instead. Australia can play at least one test a year in the Islands and visit schools etc.. this will already be a huge boost for Pacific RL!

Don’t most of the nrl PI players come from western Sydney rather than the PI’s? Nrl benefits from migration of PI families to rugby league areas where their kids can be developed in The Australian jnr system. If anything encouraging more PI migration would probably lead to better outcomes for the nrl

 

[Perth Red]

Another factor that RU has in its war chest that RL does not is that it is propagated by establishment based organisations . For example when shit hits the fan just like you have indicated, this code is able to ride through it with such support.

Try telling RugbyWA that lol