Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

[t-ba]

You know the cause of their demise lmao

your club

the thing about foundation clubs … which manly aren’t … is the people have a long standing ties to the club.

just like when they brought back souths

the north shore is a valuable part of Sydney which rugby league has neglected

Norths, after an exceptionally successful decade at North Sydney where they were just about the best attended club in the city, decided to move to an as yet unconstructed stadium in Gosford.

In the process they burnt tons of bridges. The pissed of the Leagues Club, they pissed off the Council, and in my opinion the absolute worst, they told Brothers, Willoughby Roos and Lane Cove Tigers to find a new Juniors district, (Guess who was the only Junior District willing to take them in!) whilst they planned on merging their junior powerhouses like Asquith, Berowra and Hills Hawks into the Central Coast competition. Lane Cover died because of this and was only recently revived.

Shit hit the fan when the stadium wasn't finished in time for 1999. The Bears f**ked themselves, and because they had alienated the Leagues Club, they didn't get a bailout from them. Just before the 14 licenses were handed out, the Bears went into administration. The NRL used this as an excuse to exclude them from the Criteria, and even though the Leagues Club did promise to help them, the NRL still excluded them.

Norths were not in the 2000 competition. Three clubs offered to 'merge' with the Bears whilst keeping a hold of the license themselves
- A merger with Newcastle playing full time out of Marathon in Red and Blue called 'Newcastle Knights'
- A merger with Parramatta playing full time out of Parramatta in Blue and Gold called 'Parramatta Bears'
- A merger with Manly sharing colours and venues.

The administrator chose the Manly agreement because it was the least predatory, precluding them from joining Souths in the Courts. The 'brains trust' behind Norths (rightly) assumed that Manly was in deep shit financially and a more cynical individual might assume that they weren't particularly invested in the success of the joint venture. North Sydney and Central Coast Leagues would only match the financial commitments of Manly Leagues, and, because Manly Leagues was f**ked, by 2001, it couldn't put cash into the Joint venture.

As a consequence, the JV dissolved. Norths graciously offered to assume the license of Manly, who could no longer afford to run an NRL club. Max Delmege turned up to NRL HQ with a cheque for a Million Dollars in September to prove Manly could meet it's financial commitments, a proposal by Nick Politis to expand the competition to 16 teams in 2002 was voted down by the other clubs and Norths were driven off the Central Coast a year or so later.

Manly certainly aren't blameless. The Joint Venture was never viewed as much more than a means to an end and Norths were never viewed as anything but a Junior Partner, and about a year in I reckon they were suffering from some serious buyers remorse. But Norths somehow turning themselves from a well supported Financial Powerhouse based in a fabulously wealthy part of the country to a nomadic basketcase cut from the competition in 3 short years is a story for the Ages. It's like the club itself reached the Preliminary Final of life, and, as Norths always did, choked.

but anyway you can stick to supporting a small club playing in what is really a dump

Thanks!

I will!

 

[Colk]

cOGnITiVE dISSoNAnCE

ROFLMAO.



We're a club from Manly not from the North Shore lol. Norths fan hate us. In pretty much every sport you can imagine the North Shore and the Northern Beaches are historical rivals, even down to dumb shit like state basketball comps that roughly 17 people care about.

You should come here to find out for yourself. It's a nice part of the world.



You keep bringing up that up. Who gives a f**k mate? It's not a point I've brought up so I've got nfi why you keep mentioning it to me.

The point is that the loss of several clubs has seen other sports take a march on those areas. The North Shore, which has no club, is the Swans strongest area, and the Inner West, which barely has a half a club, is their second strongest area. The sheer desire to ignore that reality by compounding that by further consolidating Sydney is mind numbingly stupid.

Now you want Manly to do a Wests Tigers which has been pretty f**king good for Australian Football.

some c0GNiTiVE dISSoNanCE right there brother!



Not everyone drives.

Plenty of people like to drink at the footy.

It's a near two hour drive between Gosford and Brookvale on a good day. It's about twice as quick to drive between Lang Park and Robina Stadium than it is Gosford and Brookvale.

These are not places remotely close to one another unless you decide to ignore pesky shit like Broken Bay.

Faulty thinking about basic things like Geography is a clear sign of c0GnITIvE dIsSOnAnCE!

Firstly, the last point isn’t cognitive dissonance, so if you are going to attack a person for using the term, apply it correctly. Cognitive dissonance applying the example of geography would be me saying that the travel isn’t important but not ever considering it for myself (which I assure you I do considering I travel from Newcastle to North Sydney for work fairly often) Essentially it is applying a different set of principles to oneself then you would do for others.

For example, pissing and moaning about fumbleball taking over parts of North Sydney and the game not doing enough whilst at the same time staunchly defending a side that you support, that is based in the northern part of Sydney from any culpability in that occurring is a classic case of cognitive dissonance.

The whole excuse put forth by some people that the only reason that fumbleball has gained traction in Sydney is because a few clubs, that were obviously not supported well enough to survive in any case, withered on the vine, is incredibly simplistic and only partially the reason. It obviously didn’t help but Norths haven’t kicked a ball in first grade for 23 years. Balmain ditto. Newtown 40 years. After a while these excuses are tiresome particularly if it ignores other certain realities: Swans have had success and they and fumbleball have simply marketed themselves better. On the other hand certain RL clubs, particularly in Sydney are run by dinosaurs with no interest and/or responsibility beyond their little fiefdoms or sections of Sydney.

Also, on another post you did mention that it was dumb that Sydney clubs were killed, obviously insisting they should have been kept and ignoring realities that they just simply weren’t competing both on and off the field.

Lastly, I haven’t said that I want to consolidate Sydney any further. I have said that we should expand to non-League areas like Perth and to New Zealand.

 

[MugaB]

What you talking about? I literally said the only box NOT ticked is elite pathways lol. Kind of ironic comment as well from an eels fan given the eels have a WC Pirates jnr on the wing!

Who cant catch

 

[Perth Red]

I wasn't sure if you were stupid or selfish. Now I can see you're both.

Why is it selfish to give kids another opportunity at nrl? Who cares where those kids were born. It’s not the 1970’s Ffs!

not to mention WA has 26 grassroots clubs. All we don’t have is the investment and direct pathway to turn our kids into first graders.

 

[Perth Red]

Who cant catch

He could when he was in perth, not sure what you have done to him since he moved east lol

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Why is it selfish to give kids another opportunity at nrl? Who cares where those kids were born. It’s not the 1970’s Ffs!

Watch the NRL grand final tonight and see why.

Although you'll probably be watching a replay of the flogball draft or some shit.

 

[Perth Red]

Watch the NRL grand final tonight and see why.

Although you'll probably be watching a replay of the flogball draft or some shit.

roosters and Storm say hi.
So you’re a faders fan? Considering you only got good by importing English players, again I’d say it’s a little bit hypocritical for you to be knocking others wouldn’t you? Lol

 

[Colk]

Except the part about having any juniors.

But that's OK, the Sydney clubs you disparage at every opportunity will provide Perth's players.

You do realise that the two most successful clubs of the last 20 years don’t have large junior nurseries. A club’s success is based on resources and recruitment/scouting more than anything.

Look at Newcastle, Warriors and the Gold Coast. Have clubs based in massive junior areas but have had no real success for 20 odd years because they have been poorly run or they have been living hand to mouth for most of that time.

Also, most squads have players recruited/scouted from QLD/NSW/NZ etc. Most clubs don’t have a whole bunch of local players. Look at our team Canberra. We have Papalii, Savage, Fogarty from QLD, Tapine, Timoko, CHN from NZ, Whitehead from England etc. Are you suggesting that they shouldn’t play for Canberra because they came from somewhere else?

 

[AlwaysGreen]

roosters and Storm say hi.
So you’re a faders fan? Considering you only got good by importing English players, again I’d say it’s a little bit hypocritical for you to be knocking others wouldn’t you? Lol

Wtf are you on about now?

It's a pretty simple concept. Here's an example for the dullards. A kid from the Parramatta area plays junior football and aspires to play for Parramatta when he grows up. He manages to do that. He plays with players who aren't from the Parramatta area, from Queensland, from New Zealand etc. One or two of this kid's juniors may well have been picked up by other clubs.

All go in the mix. For 25 years 'your' Melbourne have contributed nothing to the mix but have taken plenty from it. Perth add nothing to the mix either.

Yet, you, an afl fan posing as a league fan constantly disparage Sydney teams that do provide players to the player pool.

In conclusion you're a parasite.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

You do realise that the two most successful clubs of the last 20 years don’t have large junior nurseries. A club’s success is based on resources and recruitment/scouting more than anything.

Look at Newcastle, Warriors and the Gold Coast. Have clubs based in massive junior areas but have had no real success for 20 odd years because they have been poorly run or they have been living hand to mouth for most of that time.

Also, most squads have players recruited/scouted from QLD/NSW/NZ etc. Most clubs don’t have a whole bunch of local players. Look at our team Canberra. We have Papalii, Savage, Fogarty from QLD, Tapine, Timoko, CHN from NZ, Whitehead from England etc. Are you suggesting that they shouldn’t play for Canberra because they came from somewhere else?

See what i said to your mate Perth Red tryhard.

 

[t-ba]

Firstly, the last point isn’t cognitive dissonance, so if you are going to attack a person for using the term, apply it correctly. Cognitive dissonance applying the example of geography would be me saying that the travel isn’t important but not ever considering it for myself (which I assure you I do considering I travel from Newcastle to North Sydney for work fairly often) Essentially it is applying a different set of principles to oneself then you would do for others.

Sigh

I think you need to have a look up at the definition of cognitive dissonance mate. It's perfectly consistent to not give a shit about somebody's opinions whilst responding to it. Responding to someone does not indicate that you care about it specifically in any substantive sense. I am responding to you because I am an idiot who enjoys arguing with other idiots like yourself.

It definitely isn't applying a difference set of princes to oneself then you would do for others. That's hypocrisy, another boring and trite term to throw out there.

This is almost as painful as your 'Entrepreneurial spirit' shit from before brother.

For example, pissing and moaning about fumbleball taking over parts of North Sydney and the game not doing enough whilst at the same time staunchly defending a side that you support, that is based in the northern part of Sydney from any culpability in that occurring is a classic case of cognitive dissonance.

My side is not from the North Shore. It's from the Northern Beaches. These are not the same places. We once had the most bitter rivalry in the game. The two districts have been rival on various sporting fields for over a century now.

The 'Northern Part of Sydney' means nothing to the people living here. There are the Beaches, there is the North Shore (two of them), there is the Hills District and there is the Northern Suburbs (Ryde) and these are all different places. Just because you look at a map and see shit north of the Harbour does not magically make 'The Northern Part of Sydney' anything beyond a physical location.

Just magically expecting people who grow up playing sports against Manly District sides in sports as diverse as Basketball and Netball as their biggest rivals is just about the dumbest shit ever.

The whole excuse put forth by some people that the only reason that fumbleball has gained traction in Sydney is because a few clubs, that were obviously not supported well enough to survive in any case, withered on the vine, is incredibly simplistic and only partially the reason. It obviously didn’t help but Norths haven’t kicked a ball in first grade for 23 years. Balmain ditto. Newtown 40 years. After a while these excuses are tiresome particularly if it ignores other certain realities: Swans have had success and they and fumbleball have simply marketed themselves better. On the other hand certain RL clubs, particularly in Sydney are run by dinosaurs with no interest and/or responsibility beyond their little fiefdoms or sections of Sydney.

Based on raw numbers Norths were one of the best supported Sydney clubs of the 1990s. Only Canterbury had consistently better attendances than the Bears during the decade. You uhh...can have a look for yourself

Rugby League Tables / Attendances

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

They did not 'wither on the vine', they found themselves in deep financial shit, just like the Warriors, Titans and Knights have all found themselves in since, at exactly the wrong moment. Theirs was not a natural death, it was the competition being reduced by over a third from 1997 numbers the NRL needing a final victim and Norths just falling into the laps at the right moment. Pretty much any other year outside of 1997-1999 and they would have been bailed out like many other club have been before and since.

As for your assertion, I'm gonna reject it out of hand. If that was the case the Swans would have seen consistent growth across the city. They haven't. They've seen their biggest success in the Lower North Shore and the Inner West, both areas that have essentially lost their teams. That's far too consistent to be coincidental dude.

Also, on another post you did mention that it was dumb that Sydney clubs were killed, obviously insisting they should have been kept and ignoring realities that they just simply weren’t competing both on and off the field.

We kept on the Warriors when they found themselves in the exact same situation as Norths did not a year later.

To compare the chaos of the Super League years to something that happened over any substantive period of time is either a very underinformed or very dishonest interpretation of history.

Lastly, I haven’t said that I want to consolidate Sydney any further. I have said that we should expand to non-League areas like Perth and to New Zealand.

Wanting Manly to move part time to a place two hours away is reducing the presence of the NRL in Sydney mate. The club almost died the first time it tried to split between the two.

 

[t-ba]

Like, IIRC Norths would have gotten Penrith's license under the Criteria if they hadn't gone into administration, and Souths were cut from the competition!

These are like two of the three biggest Sydney clubs now!

Clearly the criteria that excluded Norths must have been pretty f**ked if those two were deemed inferior to Norths, Manly and Cronulla lol

 

[Colk]

See what i said to your mate Perth Red tryhard.

Tryhard? What are you 15? I’m just not informing my view on misplaced emotion. Also, your little rant didn’t disprove anything. What about Newcastle, Gold Coast, Wests Tigers, Warriors etc. If it was all just as simple as having juniors within your own little area then wouldn’t they be consistently on top?

Storm and Roosters have been the most successful clubs because they have been the best run clubs and their recruiting and scouting (particularly Storm’s) has been better than everybody else. I don’t like that fact as much you and I don’t like those clubs either but they are the facts. You can argue against logic as much you want but it doesn’t change anything.

If you want to use us as an example again, it’s not the Storm’s fault that we passed on Craig Bellamy and chose dullards like Matt Elliott, Neil Henry or David Furner instead. It’s not the Storm’s fault that nobody picked up Cameron Smith or Cooper Cronk or Billy Slater or Nicho Hynes or whomever else prior to them doing it. Every other club had the same opportunity or access to these players as they did.

Also, who honestly gives a f*** where players come from. If I had the choice between my team full of imports winning competitions or my team full of local juniors missing the 8 every year, I’d take the former every day of the week and you would to (if we are being honest).

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Tryhard? What are you 15? I’m just not informing my view on misplaced emotion. Also, your little rant didn’t disprove anything. What about Newcastle, Gold Coast, Wests Tigers, Warriors etc. If it was all just as simple as having juniors within your own little area then wouldn’t they be consistently on top?

Storm and Roosters have been the most successful clubs because they have been the best run clubs and their recruiting and scouting (particularly Storm’s) has been better than everybody else. I don’t like that fact as much you and I don’t like those clubs either but they are the facts. You can argue against logic as much you want but it doesn’t change anything.

If you want to use us as an example again, it’s not the Storm’s fault that we passed on Craig Bellamy and chose dullards like Matt Elliott, Neil Henry or David Furner instead. It’s not the Storm’s fault that nobody picked up Cameron Smith or Cooper Cronk or Billy Slater or Nicho Hynes or whomever else prior to them doing it. Every other club had the same opportunity or access to these players as they did.

Also, who honestly gives a f*** where players come from. If I had the choice between my team full of imports winning competitions or my team full of local juniors missing the 8 every year, I’d take the former every day of the week and you would to (if we are being honest).

No I'm not 15 groomer.

Rant? Emotional? You've just blah blah blahed for 4 paragraphs.

Keep fantasising and whinging. You're making a big difference to the world.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

These delusional afl lovers should really be confined to the nutjob expansion forum rather than the main nrl forum.

 

[Perth Red]

Wtf are you on about now?

It's a pretty simple concept. Here's an example for the dullards. A kid from the Parramatta area plays junior football and aspires to play for Parramatta when he grows up. He manages to do that. He plays with players who aren't from the Parramatta area, from Queensland, from New Zealand etc. One or two of this kid's juniors may well have been picked up by other clubs.

All go in the mix. For 25 years 'your' Melbourne have contributed nothing to the mix but have taken plenty from it. Perth add nothing to the mix either.

Yet, you, an afl fan posing as a league fan constantly disparage Sydney teams that do provide players to the player pool.

In conclusion you're a parasite.

Ha ha, how do you know perth won’t produce anyone? were already producing players and we run on an oily rag with no direct pathway. but again, it’s not up to nrl clubs to get kids playing rl, it’s up to them to take the best 16 year olds and turn them into quality first graders. no one cares, except those still stuckin the. 70’s where they played u8’s. There’s plenty of talented 16 year old kids around the country who would love an opportunity to become professional with whichever club gives them that opportunity. im glad my club supplied your hooker that made you look good briefly lol.

 

[Perth Red]

These delusional afl lovers should really be confined to the nutjob expansion forum rather than the main nrl forum.

You’ve contributed so much to the discussion on Peter vlandys in this thread lol
haven’t you got homework to do?

 

[t-ba]

These delusional afl lovers should really be confined to the nutjob expansion forum rather than the main nrl forum.

But then how can we enjoy their lamentations when the Bears come back and relocate to Willoughby Oval full time after 18 months?

 

[Colk]

Sigh

I think you need to have a look up at the definition of cognitive dissonance mate. It's perfectly consistent to not give a shit about somebody's opinions whilst responding to it. Responding to someone does not indicate that you care about it specifically in any substantive sense. I am responding to you because I am an idiot who enjoys arguing with other idiots like yourself.

It definitely isn't applying a difference set of princes to oneself then you would do for others. That's hypocrisy, another boring and trite term to throw out there.

This is almost as painful as your 'Entrepreneurial spirit' shit from before brother.



My side is not from the North Shore. It's from the Northern Beaches. These are not the same places. We once had the most bitter rivalry in the game. The two districts have been rival on various sporting fields for over a century now.

The 'Northern Part of Sydney' means nothing to the people living here. There are the Beaches, there is the North Shore (two of them), there is the Hills District and there is the Northern Suburbs (Ryde) and these are all different places. Just because you look at a map and see shit north of the Harbour does not magically make 'The Northern Part of Sydney' anything beyond a physical location.

Just magically expecting people who grow up playing sports against Manly District sides in sports as diverse as Basketball and Netball as their biggest rivals is just about the dumbest shit ever.



Based on raw numbers Norths were one of the best supported Sydney clubs of the 1990s. Only Canterbury had consistently better attendances than the Bears during the decade. You uhh...can have a look for yourself

Rugby League Tables / Attendances

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

They did not 'wither on the vine', they found themselves in deep financial shit, just like the Warriors, Titans and Knights have all found themselves in since, at exactly the wrong moment. Theirs was not a natural death, it was the competition being reduced by over a third from 1997 numbers the NRL needing a final victim and Norths just falling into the laps at the right moment. Pretty much any other year outside of 1997-1999 and they would have been bailed out like many other club have been before and since.

As for your assertion, I'm gonna reject it out of hand. If that was the case the Swans would have seen consistent growth across the city. They haven't. They've seen their biggest success in the Lower North Shore and the Inner West, both areas that have essentially lost their teams. That's far too consistent to be coincidental dude.



We kept on the Warriors when they found themselves in the exact same situation as Norths did not a year later.

To compare the chaos of the Super League years to something that happened over any substantive period of time is either a very underinformed or very dishonest interpretation of history.



Wanting Manly to move part time to a place two hours away is reducing the presence of the NRL in Sydney mate. The club almost died the first time it tried to split between the two.

I’ve seen the figures before. There wasn’t enough support for 11 sides in Sydney. You can argue against that and berate Super League as much as you like but as soon as you moved away from a NSW competition it was simply inevitable that some clubs in Sydney were going to die. You can’t have crowds of 10k or less and 10 other sides competing in a congested market whilst expecting to compete financially against one city teams like the Storm or the Broncos. That was unlucky for Norths but a few clubs were always going to cop it.

The Warriors were kept because they mean more financially to the competition than Norths or Balmain or Wests. That’s sad but if you kicked them out you would lose international support for the game and probably concede everything to Union. You’re definitely right about the Knights and Titans - right time for them to have financial troubles.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Ha ha, how do you know perth won’t produce anyone? were already producing players and we run on an oily rag with no direct pathway. but again, it’s not up to nrl clubs to get kids playing rl, it’s up to them to take the best 16 year olds and turn them into quality first graders. no one cares, except those still stuckin the. 70’s where they played u8’s. There’s plenty of talented 16 year old kids around the country who would love an opportunity to become professional with whichever club gives them that opportunity. im glad my club supplied your hooker that made you look good briefly lol.

Again, your stupidity and agenda gets in the way of comprehension. I didn't say anything about clubs producing all their own players.