Peter V'landys - New NRL/ARLC Chairman

[Iamback]

So? The situation hasn’t changed for how many years - they have always had longer games. Also they have had 18 teams for how long? More than 10 years? They have also had a national competition for what 30 years now? You can’t all of a sudden use these arguments if you’re being genuine, otherwise they would have always had deals 30% or more than what we have achieved in the last 30 years.

Anyway the game can fix some of these things if they wanted to - obviously they can’t fix the length of their games realistically but they can go to 18 or 20 teams if they wanted or put teams in all of the metro markets, if you are considering these as significant factors. There is nothing stopping the game from planning or doing these things, other than myopia.

Also look at the ratings. You and other posters keep talking about how League games rate as well or even better or how fumbleball doesn’t rate in NSW and Qld. Do these things no longer matter.

They have offered no new content. All they have done is frame their schedules in a similar way. We on the other hand have offered a new side and given in to broadcasters on a lot of things. Compare the percentage increase of both deals and how they conducted their negotiations and discuss that

How long has AFL got more money than NRL? So lets not pretend that NRL has had a huge step back and is only now behind.

Of course they can. NRL won't be at 17 teams for long because of the bye wrecking the draw

The ratings are hard to judge. Often their games overlap so you are getting ratings not for every game. Look at the finals ratings it is a better gauge because of no double up

They both got what they wanted. 7 can stream games online and have it's own commentary team, Fox gets it Super Saturday. The percentage increase is irrelevant again because or the difference in the years.

2028 AFL will be on the numbers above, NRL will start a new deal and for 4 years that will be the difference .

 

[Colk]

Let's put both games in perspective, regardless of what is personally getting paid to each player from both codes... there is 44 1st grade players playing at every single AFL match every week times by 9 games, then add 42 AFLW players playing 9 games aswell
So thats 396 + 378 = 744 AFL playing talent every week being put on show, 18 games of content per week, (albeit aflw goes for 10 rounds) for the AFL/W season
flip side for NRL they just meet half of that...
NRL has 16 teams, NRLW 6 teams
17 players on each team, times by 8 games for mens, and 3 games for womens
17× 16 = 272, and 17x 6 = 102, that totals to only 374 playing talent for their respective seasons,
Add in grants, staff salary, travel cost, etc which could be the same amount for each code, the biggest takeaway is that AFL have double the amount of players on field per season comparing to the NRL

Mugab this situation hasn’t drastically changed in the last few days since that struck the deal. They haven’t all of a sudden just added 3 or 4 sides or extended the game by a quarter.

We all know (or would logically conclude) that their costs are a lot higher. But if you wanted to balance the argument out, you would also note that they make an absolute mountain more revenue (even taking out the TV deals in two years) than the NRL does.

In any case, all of these points are extraneous to the main debate: that is whether we did a good deal and whether they did a good deal.

 

[Colk]

How long has AFL got more money than NRL? So lets not pretend that NRL has had a huge step back and is only now behind.

Of course they can. NRL won't be at 17 teams for long because of the bye wrecking the draw

The ratings are hard to judge. Often their games overlap so you are getting ratings not for every game. Look at the finals ratings it is a better gauge because of no double up

They both got what they wanted. 7 can stream games online and have it's own commentary team, Fox gets it Super Saturday. The percentage increase is irrelevant again because or the difference in the years.

2028 AFL will be on the numbers above, NRL will start a new deal and for 4 years that will be the difference .

I never suggested that NRL have ever been ahead of AFL on TV rights so don’t imagine things have been said. For the sake of clarity, have fumbleball ever been over $100 million ahead or around 30% or more ahead on a TV deal within the same period? I know that doesn’t help your argument hence why you changed the parameters of your argument

Also, why shouldn’t I or anybody else compare the deals. They have been negotiated within 6-12 months of each other. There was nothing stopping from the NRL from doing exactly what fumbleball did (negotiate a small extension for 2 years and negotiate again after the pandemic has passed). The fact that V’Landys was too stupid or complicit enough with Fox to not to do that doesn’t somehow mean that these deals shouldn’t be measured against each other or that he escapes criticism for that ridiculous decision.

 

[Iamback]

I never suggested that NRL have ever been ahead of AFL on TV rights so don’t imagine things have been said. For the sake of clarity, have fumbleball ever been over $100 million ahead or around 30% or more ahead on a TV deal within the same period? I know that doesn’t help your argument hence why you changed the parameters of your argument

Also, why shouldn’t I or anybody else compare the deals. They have been negotiated within 6-12 months of each other. There was nothing stopping from the NRL from doing exactly what fumbleball did (negotiate a small extension for 2 years and negotiate again after the pandemic has passed). The fact that V’Landys was too stupid or complicit enough with Fox to not to do that doesn’t somehow mean that these deals shouldn’t be measured against each other or that he escapes criticism for that ridiculous decision.

Using the $420m figure from above

Next year NRL start that deal.

AFL get minus the Telstra money $426m

Despite all those reasons I listed the deals are very close for the 1st 2 years.

Then the last 4 years of the AFL deal is the new NRL deal, So it won't be 30% less the whole time it is usually for the years the deals overlap.

Then again whatever that NRL deal is will get swamped for a years and repeat, That is the cycle.
They never both finish at the same time and as a result there is a huge gap, Which gets smaller when the next deal takes over

 

[Colk]

Using the $420m figure from above

Next year NRL start that deal.

AFL get minus the Telstra money $426m

Despite all those reasons I listed the deals are very close for the 1st 2 years.

Then the last 4 years of the AFL deal is the new NRL deal, So it won't be 30% less the whole time it is usually for the years the deals overlap.

Then again whatever that NRL deal is will get swamped for a years and repeat, That is the cycle.
They never both finish at the same time and as a result there is a huge gap, Which gets smaller when the next deal takes over

I already know all of this and besides all of this is just semantics.

You just don’t want to admit that the game’s administration made a mistake (and a big one) and you also don’t want to admit that fumbleball completely outplayed that administration.

I don’t like that truth either but it is the truth nonetheless that there will be a hundred million dollar gap in the rights at a time. It didn’t have to happen and it only has happened because V’Landys negotiated a long deal in a position of weakness and didn’t put everything on the table at once whilst the AFL did and negotiated from a position of strength. That’s clearly without doubt on V’Landys and the commission and nobody else

 

[Pink Panther]

the NEL needs a club in every city and at least two in Melbourne which is the second biggest city in Australia so that there is at least one NRL game in Melbourne every week

that would increase the $$$$ of our NRL tv deal by quite a lot

 

[Storm80]

Because it makes the deal $420m not $400...Again if you want to whinge the deal is a shit deal for NRL then you need the actual figures

But it isn't $200m different though. You can't tell me if it is $400m or $420m for the NRL for starters.

Channel 7 has declared they are paying $170m.

Yes or no do you believe Fox Sports is paying $470m for a sport that runs for 30 weeks?

Your reliance on randomly selected data and figures makes it very hard to follow.

You’ve previously said the $4.5b figure is bloated due to telstra providing $50m a year or whatever it is.

So minus $350m over 7 years your saying $4.15b is what FTA and Pay are paying. Divided by 7 = $585m a year including contra. So with channel 7 paying $170m, foxtel is likely paying $410m a year. Where is this $470m figure you talk about?

Roy Masters article says NRL is around $410m a year including $40m of contra and includes NZ market. Cash amount is $370m a year from FTA and Foxtel. This deal was negotiated in Dec 2021 for 2023-2027 years.

Fast fwd 9 months, AFL have secured $585m (including contra) a year for 2025, 26 and 27. That’s $175m (including contra) annually more than NRL will receive in the same period. That’s $525m more in 2025-27.

You can’t tell me the market changed that much in 8 months to justify AFL achieving an increase over the NRL of $525m in a 3 season period of 2025-27.

Considering the post covid world we live in with inflation and shakey economy etc the gap the AFL has made in media rights is completely mind blowing. Considering before covid AFL and NRL were neck and neck. This gap in value and each codes revenue from media rights is just earth shattering.

AFL even managed to retain its own media and digital arm during this whole covid period too. I really can’t do anything but objectively except reality and praise the phenomenal negotiation skills of Gil and co. Just wish they were running NRL.

 

[Storm80]

A

Using the $420m figure from above

Next year NRL start that deal.

AFL get minus the Telstra money $426m

Despite all those reasons I listed the deals are very close for the 1st 2 years.

Then the last 4 years of the AFL deal is the new NRL deal, So it won't be 30% less the whole time it is usually for the years the deals overlap.

Then again whatever that NRL deal is will get swamped for a years and repeat, That is the cycle.
They never both finish at the same time and as a result there is a huge gap, Which gets smaller when the next deal takes over

Again, I completely dispute this idea that it’s a cycle and NRL will just make up the difference with its next media deal in 2028-32.

1. AFL is guarentee to make at least $500m (including contra) more than NRL for 2025-27 based on Roy Masters article and just sound logic.

2. For its 2028-32 deal, NRL need not only to negotiate an extra $175m (including contra) annually to equal the remaining years of AFL’s 2025-31 deal - but also need to increase it by an extra $100m annually to catch up on the $500m they lost on AFL in 2025-27.

3. So to be able to equal the AFL in tv rights the NRL would need to increase $410m (including contra) by $175m ($585m) plus $100m annually over 5 years.

Does anyone seriously believe the NRL could negotiate from $410m a year to $685m annually for 5 years - just to break even with AFL’s seven year deal?

And it’s $685m just to equal what AFL achieve in 2025-27. If they won’t to go above and beyond so they can stroke their ego by claiming to have the highest TV rights deal in history they’ll need to crack at least $700m a year. That’s a 70% increase in price hahaha it’s never gonna happen.

The AFL only managed to up their amount by 24% and knocked it out of the park. Based on that, the NRL will be able to increase from $410m to $510m a year. Let’s be generous and say NRL did get $585m a year in a small market. That’s a 42% increase between deals which is highly unlikely. Especially when the code has done nothing to increase ratings in markets like Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide.

In any event, if NRL want to retain a FTA presence they are never ever going to make up the $500m less they made than AFL in the 2025-27 period. Their only hope would be giving all the right to Amazon or Apple etc for $700m a year or whatever which is ever going to happen cause it would ultimately lead to no FTA and huge drop in viewership. Australian government would also intervene.

The other thing 7 years does is lock in $4.5b as the highest deal for the next decade. Either NRL would need to do a 7 year deal or negotiate $900m annually over 5 years to equal it.

Unless the NRL can say their next deal is worth “$4.6b and the biggest and bestest ever” regardless of whether it’s 5 or 7 or 10 years - the AFL still get bragging rights. The more I think about how AFL out manouvered NRL during this COVID period the more impressive their strategy and dominance really is.

Honestly, I know AFL administration has pulled the NRLs pants down a few times over the years (paying $1m to keep ANZ stadium an oval etc) - but this is next level.

The AFL has not only pulled down NRL’s pants down, they also made them dress up like a baby and forced them to call them daddy. It’s just astonishing. It’s exactly the type of alpha move we all expected PVL to make cause he was all bluster and telling us about how awesome he was.

Should have known though, it’s Beta types that make the loudest noise about how awesome they are and also say there the alpha. Real alphas like Gil just let their actions do the talking and just watch the carnage unfurl behind them.

 

[Perth Red]

This is true. Lets compare what we know the FTA figures, Then we can discuss good or bad deal

NRL gets $130m
AFL deal starting in 2025 $170m

Both Sports get 3 games

NRL being 80 mins x 3 is 240mins of content
AFL 120mins x 3 is 360mins of content

NRL rates almost nothing outside of QLD and NSW, Melbourne is hit and miss but we will count them for this discussion.

Ch 7 is able to sell to advertisers as per 5 capital city. Compared to ch9 3

What Origin is worth is the unknown in this

Your making a very good case for fast tracking Adelaide and perth in lol. Origin has been mentioned in the past as being worth $30mill a year. So in effect seven is paying $70mill a year more than nine pay for afl for basically the same thing but with a few more ad breaks.

 

[Perth Red]

Back to pistol pete

this alone should be enough to remove him. He’s basically telling us fox would have been dead in the water without NRl and we had them over a barrel. And what did he do? Gave them the cheapest deal ever in comparison to our competitor. I mean even the most ardent Vlandys lover can’t justify that this is acceptable. He’s cost the game over $500mill in revenue. He has to walk.

AW: Was it a mistake doing the deal with Foxtel during the pandemic?
PV: At the time, Fox needed an asset on its sheet to continue its viability. If we didn’t come into play, there’d be no Foxtel.

 

[Perth Red]

E

Using the $420m figure from above

Next year NRL start that deal.

AFL get minus the Telstra money $426m

Despite all those reasons I listed the deals are very close for the 1st 2 years.

Then the last 4 years of the AFL deal is the new NRL deal, So it won't be 30% less the whole time it is usually for the years the deals overlap.

Then again whatever that NRL deal is will get swamped for a years and repeat, That is the cycle.
They never both finish at the same time and as a result there is a huge gap, Which gets smaller when the next deal takes over

only it hasn’t got smaller. It just got a dam site bigger, in fact at lest double the gap of any previous deal!

 

[Perth Red]

Let’s review the ledger shall we

in the positive column
- Got the game through covid (though every game got through covid and afl didn’t lose any tv money in the process)
- Made a profit last year (largely through not spending on grass roots and having two origin revenues in that financial year)
- Expanded the comp (without getting any extra revenue through)
- increased club grants to see them through covid
- expansion of nrlw

in the wtf is he doing column
- pssed off our growth markets through constant childish comments
- sacked the ceo who was playing hardball with tv re reductions and recommending not signing any deals until after the comp was back up and running normally
- made rule changes on the run that wrecked part fl the season and changed the fabrics of the game
- created a massive scare story about head injuries that only added to the perception that parents shouldn’t let their kids play our game
- changed a fundamental principle,of the game of players suspended spend that suspension immediately
- pulled australia and nz out of a World Cup
- got rid of mid season test calendar
- closed down a key part of our digital revenue raising platform that the nrl has invested tens of millions in to benefit fox and nine
- gave tv a substantial covid reduction which he then failed to recoup
- signed. 5 year deal in the middle of covid that yielded zero $’s extra cash for the game from our Australian tv partners and was shown by the afl deal to be either complete incompetence or complete corruption.
- screwed up the Sydney stadium negotiations leaving the game with No Redeveloped Accor and most clubs still not playing in decent stadiums. Not to mention destroying the relationship with govt and getting the public offside

hmm the ledger looks pretty heavily weighted!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Don’t worry, I expect a couple of nice fluff pieces from Fox Sports, News Ltd. and Nine journos to cover for his obvious failings. Remember - he “saved” the game despite no other major sport in Australia folding.

The ARLC was made to ensure the game looked after its own interests. PVL was installed at the behest of the media to protect their interests and the game is back to square one.

Imagine renegotiating tv rights deals in the middle of a pandemic without going to market and him being praised by the public. If I’m the clubs and the players association - I’m demanding his resignation for this and multiple other screw ups.

The ARLC is independent in name only. Since 2012 it has basically been run by the clubs, who've danced to whatever tune News Ltd played because it's where the bulk of the game's income comes from. Grant upped the grant and was then booted by the clubs. Smith and Greenberg were booted by the clubs after News Ltd chucked a tantrum so they could rip us off on broadcasting deals.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Is it PVL's fault that there is a big gap between AFL and NRL deals? Yes and no.

Yes, he probably should not have negotiated future rights deals during a covid pandemic. He should've just worked on the discounts for the 2020 season.

No, because where was the commission? Wasn't there someone to reign PVL in. When you look at Gill, do you honestly think he did all of the deal on his own?

A number of years ago, Dave Smith completed the FTA deal only. Where was the rest of the deal? Did Gill and the AFL only announced the FTA component today?

What the NRL needs is not a savior where you rely on one single person. The game needs a strong commission, where they all contribute to a media rights deal. Otherwise what is the point of having an independent commission in the first place.

By the time the NRL signs off on the next deal, it could be 2026 or 2027. Don't do it earlier, make Nine and Fox sweat for the first time. And by then, the NRL needs to have people in the commission that know how to do a rights deal.

Smith was sacked for dealing with Ch9 without consulting News Ltd. V'landys wasn't sacked when he cut out Ch9 to work with News Ltd.

The blame for it goes on V'landys, the ARLC, all 16 NRL clubs, QRL, NSWRL and the fans who refuse to embrace change.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Ti

Time to sack Vlandys and Abdo and refresh the commision. A proper strategic plan for the games growth over next ten years with new larger markets invested in and developed into nrl clubs. If this isnt the big kick up the arse the nrl needs then nothing will ever change anything. Vlandys did the tv deal on his own, the mess we now face sits very squarely on his shoulders.

Our game is its own worst enemy. Almost every decision it makes is based around the self-interest of Sydney's nine clubs. It's how we got such a narrow-minded and Sydney-centric Chairman to run the ARLC and why he's praised by so many PEOPLE in the game and media. Nothing will change because the Sydney clubs don't want to lose their power.

 

[fourplay]

AW: Was it a mistake doing the deal with Foxtel during the pandemic?
PV: At the time, Fox needed an asset on its sheet to continue its viability. If we didn’t come into play, there’d be no Foxtel.

This is one of the craziest things I have ever read from any person in any business. So a majorly important strategic asset of a $10bn usd company (News Corp), yes, TEN BILLION USD, might collapse if it does not get the NRL rights, and merely knowing this and the incredible once in a lifetime position of power and leverage this position provides in negotiating, he finds a way to UNDER SELL the NRL rights as a means to prop up Foxtel.

He is basically saying that this deal is so good for Foxtel that it single-handedly makes Foxtel viable again such is their profit from it.

And he admits this? He is actually saying this out loud? ​

For me this confirms all the theories about Vlandy's being a News Corp stooge. No wonder every News journalist love him. I had never seen Paul Kent and the NRL360 crew so angry on Monday about Taylan May's delayed suspension and they ripped into Adbo, they ripped into "the NRL" and they ripped into the commission for not intervening, but they didn't mention the moles name once. Can't talk bad about the their own Mr Moneybags.

 

[Colk]

This is one of the craziest things I have ever read from any person in any business. So a majorly important strategic asset of a $10bn usd company (News Corp), yes, TEN BILLION USD, might collapse if it does not get the NRL rights, and merely knowing this and the incredible once in a lifetime position of power and leverage this position provides in negotiating, he finds a way to UNDER SELL the NRL rights as a means to prop up Foxtel.

He is basically saying that this deal is so good for Foxtel that it single-handedly makes Foxtel viable again such is their profit from it.

And he admits this? He is actually saying this out loud? ​

For me this confirms all the theories about Vlandy's being a News Corp stooge. No wonder every News journalist love him. I had never seen Paul Kent and the NRL360 crew so angry on Monday about Taylan May's delayed suspension and they ripped into Adbo, they ripped into "the NRL" and they ripped into the commission for not intervening, but they didn't mention the moles name once. Can't talk bad about the their own Mr Moneybags.

Yet there are people on here still defending him. Boggles the mind.

To me the only reason people are denying it is because they can’t simply admit they were wrong about him. It’s analogous to somebody cheating on you and having all the evidence in front of you but being in a state of denial because you ‘love’ them

 

[LeagueXIII]

Remarkable amount of rugby league fans who know so much about AFL and the blokes who run it.

Helps when you live in an AFL city and that's 90% of the sport you get.

 

[LeagueXIII]

This is one of the craziest things I have ever read from any person in any business. So a majorly important strategic asset of a $10bn usd company (News Corp), yes, TEN BILLION USD, might collapse if it does not get the NRL rights, and merely knowing this and the incredible once in a lifetime position of power and leverage this position provides in negotiating, he finds a way to UNDER SELL the NRL rights as a means to prop up Foxtel.

He is basically saying that this deal is so good for Foxtel that it single-handedly makes Foxtel viable again such is their profit from it.

And he admits this? He is actually saying this out loud? ​

He is working for the NRL isn't he and trying to get the best deal for them? Or am I mistaken.............................

 

[Colk]

He is working for the NRL isn't he and trying to get the best deal for them? Or am I mistaken.............................

That’s what he said. We need to help them out because they might get a metaphorical cold