player stats gone crazy

[Magpies Forever]

Was just looking at the posts on Lui and it struck me that the player stats now used by all clubs / media are going nuts in their classification of work rate and effort in the game.

There are useful stats and then they go nuts in liberal interpretation of them eg tackles made includes even if you are the third / fourth man in to someone already down or even put your hand on the group tackle etc. Try assists seems to be a big bugbear in its application.

Is there anywhere where these stats are defined and how they came to be what they are defined as?

 

[madunit]

for a long time, a try assist was credited to the person who threw the last pass

tackle stats only include 'tackles' made prior to ref calling held.

What constitutes as a tackle though is a massive grey area and one defined entirely by the statistician and not defined by the NRL at all.

A lot of stats with high tackle counts should be considered dubious.

 

[Magpies Forever]

for a long time, a try assist was credited to the person who threw the last pass

tackle stats only include 'tackles' made prior to ref calling held.

What constitutes as a tackle though is a massive grey area and one defined entirely by the statistician and not defined by the NRL at all.

A lot of stats with high tackle counts should be considered dubious.

Thanks MU- so it seems stats are in the eye of the beholder and should be taken with a grain of salt. A few months back I was watching a game and a player was credited with 40 tackles in the first half and I just didnt believe it. 1 tackle per minute- isnt possible. How can you participate in a tackle, hold the player, get up and reset yourself in the defensive line and then there is also the times when your side is on the attack.

It would be nice if the NRL's new independent commission could bring some structure, conformity and sanity back into the stats so you are comparing apples with apples.

 

[N.C.]

Interesting thread. I completely agree that rugby league stats are more art than science.

I've often wondered how is a "metre gained"?

I mean, it sounds pretty straightforward, but then when you start to think about it...

I expect a player makes metres by running the ball into the defensive line.

But does a player gain metres if they also offload to another, so are not tackled with the ball?

Does a player gain metres if they are running with the ball as part of a set play or back-line movement?

I have asked these questions in another forum and every time I go back to check for answers all I get is the sound of crickets chirping...

 

[madunit]

Metres gained is metres forward the player gains while holding the ball

 

[madunit]

Thanks MU- so it seems stats are in the eye of the beholder and should be taken with a grain of salt. A few months back I was watching a game and a player was credited with 40 tackles in the first half and I just didnt believe it. 1 tackle per minute- isnt possible. How can you participate in a tackle, hold the player, get up and reset yourself in the defensive line and then there is also the times when your side is on the attack.

It would be nice if the NRL's new independent commission could bring some structure, conformity and sanity back into the stats so you are comparing apples with apples.

David Middleton is the key stats man, so a commission isn't going to bother worrying about them, seeing as how he almost has a monopoly on stats, but personally I feel the Fox Sports stats are a smidge more accurate.

 

[Magpies Forever]

I've never met the man, but I've heard his name mentioned as the 'stats man'. Reckon he must the mad for numbers and mumble them in his sleep. Good on him.

 

[Borat.]

Was just looking at the posts on Lui and it struck me that the player stats now used by all clubs / media are going nuts in their classification of work rate and effort in the game.

There are useful stats and then they go nuts in liberal interpretation of them eg tackles made includes even if you are the third / fourth man in to someone already down or even put your hand on the group tackle etc. Try assists seems to be a big bugbear in its application.

Is there anywhere where these stats are defined and how they came to be what they are defined as?

They only ever count the first 2 players in a tackle, and a flop is not counted as a tackle....

 

[N.C.]

Metres gained is metres forward the player gains while holding the ball

I see. Like I said, it sounds pretty straightforward... but then when you start to think about it...

 

[gordsy]

Try NRL stats maybe ?

 

[madunit]

I see. Like I said, it sounds pretty straightforward... but then when you start to think about it...

with all respect, there's only one uncertainty, and that is if metres are deducted off the gained total for running or being pushed backwards.

Everything else is pretty clear cut.

 

[N.C.]

Seems like a pretty fair uncertainty to me, MU - especially the way some of our players run with the ball. But cheers, been looking for a basic definition on that for some time... Reckon it would be a pretty difficult stat to maintain any real accuracy on.

 

[madunit]

Well as I said, the biggest problem is that essentially, one man decided these rules himself and never clarified them.

No one ever questioned them because so many people believe Middleton is the greatest Stats/historian man to ever grace the planet.

He's far far from it, he was just the smart one who decided to make a heap of cash out of it. Money talks.