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Poms chance or not

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
nadera78 said:
Pretty much go along with al of that. While he has a hole in his arse Sean Long won't be an international scrum half! Richard Horne is far and away our best SH and should be playing there with Paul Cooke at 6. Shame Richard Graham is injured 'cos he's a top, top player. O'Loughlin is an embarrasement tbh. There needs to be a clear out of the failed older uys, and if Noble fails to win a game this year (definatley possible) then hopefully he'll get the sack as his contract finishes with this comp.

We've got some bloody talented kids coming through, we just need someone with some vision in charge who isnt afraid to play them.

Loads of people slate Schoey's opinions but his RLW piece on the GB squad, while not totally to my liking, is better than the one that'll inevitably trot out.

At least we've gotten rid of Deacon and Sinfield, so we're moving forward.

I'd not have Cooke at 6, I'd have him at 13 (Schoey said if you're playing Long and McGuire you need a lock with vision - sound logic IMO).

I'd have Pryce at 6 from this squad and he'd be the first HB on my team sheet. Big, strong, rangey and loves getting involved taking it to the line. Saints' domination this year has inevitably seen uber praise poured on Long, but Pryce at 5/8 too......?

McGuire and Long together has all the makings of a running sideways farce.

Schoey also says: Scully's no loss (agree - totally overated); Senior's past it and hasn't impressed for years (agree - the evidence is plain to all! How many chances does he fluff with poor decisions?); he also says he'd plump for Higham over Newton (totally, totally agree!) and says he doesn't see the point of Hock, O'Loughlin or Aspinwall.

Personally I've never seen the point of Peacock. No skills, not that fast and easy to tackle.

Thank god for Ellis and Fielden.......
 

Fairleigh Good!

Juniors
Messages
1,185
nqboy said:
It's hard for me to believe Sean Long is a good player. And they depend so much on him being one.

The guy is a legend. He's miles better than Thurston for a start.

With St Helens Long has bordered on perfection this season. That comes on the back of the most dominant set of forwards in the world at club level, meaning he was always kicking from outside his own 40.

With GB missing Keiron Cunningham, who is still peerless in the sport, GB's pack won't make those kind of in roads into the NZ or Aus packs. I can see Long kicking under pressure from inside his own 20 repeatedly. How many scrum halves in rugby league could cope with that?
 

miccle

Bench
Messages
4,334
1. Australia doesn't have scrum halves, we have halfbacks.

2. Not every main kicker in NRL teams is the halfback.

:wink:
 

Charge

Juniors
Messages
234
Kurt Angle said:
Screeny, what would you think of a

6. Cooke
7. Briers

GB Combination ?

Not as good as:

6. Cooke or Briers
7. McGuire or Long

1 organiser/kicker + 1 runner/support player who can turn the slightest of gaps into a try.
 

Kurt Angle

First Grade
Messages
9,749
Well using your options, I wouldn't put Briers and Mcguire as the 6/7 combination, GB would be carved up ont the fringe of the ruck with regularity.
 

WJ

Juniors
Messages
284
It's got be long and mcguire. Those 2 haven't yet lost a test when they have started together and was the combination last time we beat the aussies.
 

screeny

Bench
Messages
3,984
Kurt Angle said:
Screeny, what would you think of a

6. Cooke
7. Briers

GB Combination ?

I'd have Cooke at 13. He can steady the ship and makes good decisions but isn't sparky enough for 6 IMO.

Briers at 7 would be acceptable as he plays off first rec'r a lot with Wire (and Wales). Outside him I'd have Leon Pryce.

Noble will play Ellis at 13 which is difficult to complain about as he's our best defender, but Cooke's a hundred times better with the ball, much better even than Leon Pryce.

Briers, Pryce and Cooke would be my creative triangle, with Higham at rake (I hate Newton).

Hmmmm, interestingly, three of my choices aren't even in the pigging squad! And the fourth is going to suffer acute atrophy on the wing.

Writing this I wasn't intending to go so against Noble's preferences, but it's funny how diffferent they are.....but that's who I'd have.
 

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
I'd go with the following;
Pryce, Carney, Gleeson, Yeaman, Raynor, Cooke, Horne, Fielden, Higham, Morley, Peacock, Purdham, Ellis. Subs - Maguire, Roby, Wood, Carvell.

Pryce is the most devestating loose runner in the squad and from full back will have opportunites to run at a jagged defensive line. Yeaman and Raynor on one side a they know each other inside out, Gleeeson and Carney obvious choices on the other side. Horne is our best scrum half and works well with Cooke so keep a partnership together.Also Cooke has a great kicking game. Morley and Fielden pick themselves, as do Wood and Carvell as the sub props. Higham is the best hooker in GB and Roby is very lively and difficult to contain coming off the bench. Peacock and Purdham (suprise choice!) work their knackers off in the 2nd row as does Ellis who is also a lively runner out wide. Maguire makes up the bench and adds spark and elusiveness when the opposition is tiring.

Real shame Graham is injured.
 

JonG

Juniors
Messages
222
I think we've got a good chance, and by beating the kiwis twice means that Noble can field a second team come the 2nd aussie test. This would give the main players a 2 week rest and get over all their bumps and bruises from previous rounds.

This is what the aussies will be doing, so that 2nd test could be a dead duck.

I believe that GB have the best pack in the tournament, and should set up a great platform for everyone else. In Wellens they have a quality full back and Carney is probably the second best winger in the comp. If Long fires like he has all season then he is a better player than Stacey, and McGuire's creativity and support play will be a bonus.

Gleeson is a quality centre, one of the best around. Senior and pryce worry me and will be our weaklinks.

For GB to win this tournament not only do they have to play ay 110% for 80 minutes, but have to make sure they are in the final before that second aussie game. Big ask, but I think they can do it
 

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
Sean Long is only effective when the defence is disjointed and unorganised. That's St Helens strength, they cause problems for other teams all over the place and it leads to defensive plays breaking down, then and only then does Long become of any value.

Neither Australia nor New Zealand will fall apart defensively, ergo Sean Long will be completely useless in this tournament. Once again. And with Maguire at 6 we need a strong scrum half who can lead the team around the field, Horne is the only one who fits that description.
 

St.Seahawksl

Juniors
Messages
21
nadera78 said:
I'd go with the following;
Pryce, Carney, Gleeson, Yeaman, Raynor, Cooke, Horne, Fielden, Higham, Morley, Peacock, Purdham, Ellis. Subs - Maguire, Roby, Wood, Carvell.

Pryce is the most devestating loose runner in the squad and from full back will have opportunites to run at a jagged defensive line. Yeaman and Raynor on one side a they know each other inside out, Gleeeson and Carney obvious choices on the other side. Horne is our best scrum half and works well with Cooke so keep a partnership together.Also Cooke has a great kicking game. Morley and Fielden pick themselves, as do Wood and Carvell as the sub props. Higham is the best hooker in GB and Roby is very lively and difficult to contain coming off the bench. Peacock and Purdham (suprise choice!) work their knackers off in the 2nd row as does Ellis who is also a lively runner out wide. Maguire makes up the bench and adds spark and elusiveness when the opposition is tiring.

Real shame Graham is injured.

Right so let me get this straight, lets go for the 2 half backs which in their last two games against the best defence in SL conjured up all of two tries? And it will be undoubtedly harder at international.

Mick Higham best hooker in GB, stop it my sides are splitting.

Rob Purdham, this guy would be lucky to get a game for the Vatican City at international level.

GB as much as it pains me to say it will do well to keep the Kiwis to a 20 point margin and the Aussies to a 40 point margin.
 

nadera78

Juniors
Messages
2,233
Purdham may not be the most creative player in the world, but you'll struggle to find a harder worker, and we need guys in the middle who will work their knackers off, he fits the bill perfectly. I watch him every week and the guy is a metronome. As for Horne and Cooke, they are the best halves pairing we have. I notice ou haven't come up with any alternatives.
 

In-goal

Bench
Messages
3,523
I think that GB will perform to a level of new hights due to there being no pressure.

there pack is probably more physical than Australia's, and I think they will gain that advantage just as long as the kicking game is upto some sort of standard.

As was mentioned earlier they have been ordinary at the long kicking game for the past 2 tri nations, one day they will get it right.
 
Messages
689
Not long now lads.
Two great articles from the New Zealand Herald:

5 reasons to fear the British

Friday October 27, 2006
By Steve Deane

Leaving aside an instantly forgettable one-off Tri-Nations encounter in 1999, a decade has passed since this country was last gripped by the prospect of the Great Britain Lions strutting their stuff in New Zealand.
Then again, with just 26,000 fans attending the three tests in Auckland, Christchurch and Palmerston North, 'gripped' possibly isn't the right word. That 1996 tour wasn't exactly memorable for the British, either.
After beating Papua New Guinea by two points in Lae, the Andy Farrell-skippered Lions enjoyed a couple of romps in Fiji before stumbling to a 22-22 draw against a Lion Red Cup XIII in Auckland.
And that was as good as it got for the Lions, who lost all three tests and also capitulated to a Divisional XIII in Lower Hutt and New Zealand Maori in Whangarei.
With some of the squad sent home as the touring party ran out of money, the tour marked the low point for British league.
Times have changed.
Anyone expecting a similar sort of showing this time around is in for a shock.
1996 may well have been the Lions' nadir but it was also the dawn of a new era: the Super League era.
While the words Super League are synonymous with failure and folly in the Antipodes, they represent nothing short of revolution in the Northern Hemisphere.
The switch from a winter to summer season and the adoption of full-time professionalism has transformed the way the game is played in Britain.
A sport widely perceived as the preserve of beer-bellied northern plodders with fetishes for smog has become a haven of athletic prowess.
Not only do Britain's players run around with the sun on their backs, many of them do so on pristine surfaces at shining new stadia, which make Mt Smart look third-world by comparison.
When former Kiwis stalwart Robbie Paul joined Bradford as a 17-year-old in 1995, the club had on its books just a handful of, mainly foreign, full time professionals.
Today, Super League clubs typically carry around 30 full time pros, as well as operating semi-professional academies at under-17 through to under-21 level.
Most of this British touring party have been fulltime pros since their mid-teens.
Just two players remain from the squad that toured New Zealand in 1996; centre Keith Senior and prop Adrian Morley.
The financial ruin of the disastrous 2000 World Cup has meant British teams have hardly left their own shores for the best part of a decade. This current crop of players knows that, if they fail, they probably won't be back for a second chance.
They will be well-drilled, highly-skilled and supremely motivated. The Kiwis will take them lightly at their peril.


1: The coach
Brian Noble
* Age: 45
* Honours (as coach): three Super League titles, three World Club Challenges, one Challenge Cup
* Record as GB coach: v Australia: P5 W1 L4; v New Zealand: P5 W4 L1
A former Bradford policeman and Lions captain, Noble - Nobby to his friends - has an unrivalled record among coaches on either side of the world.
After taking over at Bradford in 2001, where he played more than 400 first grade games as a feisty hooker, he guided them to five successive grand finals, winning three. When he switched to Wigan mid-season, the Lancashire giant had won just two of 11 games and was languishing six points adrift at the foot of the table.
Under Noble, the club won 10 of its final 12 matches to comfortably avoid relegation.
Noble grew up on the mean streets of Bradford and freely admits that, had it not been for Police Boys Rugby League Club, he may have chosen another path in life. A deep thinker in a game not overly blessed with them, he is fond of prefacing statements with the phrase "the reality is".
The reality is that, under Noble, Great Britain have won four of their five encounters with the Kiwis, the last two by a combined margin of 84-26. Forget talk of weakened teams and poor preparation, the points are on the board. Besides, two weeks before last years Tri-Nations final, when it really did matter, the Lions hammered the Kiwis 38-12.
When the 2002 tour of Great Britain is factored in the Kiwis have won just one of their last seven against the Lions. Perhaps the one crumb of comfort in those stats is that the Kiwis' sole victory came in London, which is as near as they've had to a home game against Britain since 1999. So when Noble says: "We are confident of beating New Zealand", he means it.

2: The captain
Jamie Peacock
* Position: Prop/second row
* Age: 28
* Height: 1.95m
* Weight: 101kg
* Caps: 19
* Honours: Three Super League grand final victories, three World Club Challenge victories, two Challenge Cup victories, 2003 Man of Steel
Now in his second year as Great Britain captain, Peacock was elevated to the position after St Helens lock Paul Sculthorpe was ruled out of last year's tournament with a knee injury, which continues to keep him out of the side.
Despite his impressive size and work rate, Peacock was never tipped for the top. As a junior, he never achieved representative honours and was overlooked by his hometown club, Leeds Rhinos, signing instead as an unheralded teenager with Bradford.
"I'm not the most naturally-talented player," Peacock said after picking up the Man of Steel award for Super League's most valuable player in 2003.
"I guess it just comes down to hard work."
Peacock possesses tremendous leg drive, an occasional offload and is a punishing but economical defender.
A leader straight out of the 'do as I do' school, he has an uncomplicated approach . But, despite his reputation as a man of relatively few words, many of which are barely comprehensible due to his thick Yorkshire drawl, he isn't afraid to speak his mind and is more than capable of producing the odd memorable quote. Following one particularly testy clash with Widnes in which the match officials botched a number of crucial calls, Peacock, knowing full-well he would be censured and fined, publicly branded the state of refereeing in Super League a "disgrace" and lambasted touch judges as "cowards in a man's game".
He is also, presumably, the first British captain to mark the beginning of his reign with the immortal words: "I got kneed in the balls", after news he had come within a whisker of losing a testicle to a stray knee in the 2005 grand final leaked out ahead of a press conference to officially announce his appointment.


3: The halfback
Sean Long
* Age: 30.
* Height: 1.76m.
* Weight: 85kg.
* Caps: 11.
* Honours: Four Super League titles, three Challenge Cups, 2000 Man of Steel winner, three-time winner of Lance Todd trophy for man-of-the-match in Challenge Cup final
A will-o'-the-wisp character who has somehow avoided being locked up for crimes against hair-dressing, Long has never quite transferred his prodigious talents from the domestic to international game.
He has provided the creative spark during a sustained period of success for St Helens but, somewhat incredibly for a player rated the best in the British game six years ago, and who this year made history by becoming the only player to have won the prestigious Lance Todd trophy three times, Long has failed to maintain a firm hold on the Lions' number seven jersey.
Many, but not all, of his problems, have been of his own making. In 2004, for instance, he missed half a season due to a ban for his part in a betting scandal.
Long was then absent for last year's Tri-Nations after having his jaw shattered by a wild elbow from international team-mate Terry Newton during a club game. His return this year is an undoubted boost for the Lions.
Not quite a British version of Andrew Johns, Long at least bares comparison with Stacey Jones in his prime. A devastating runner with an astute kicking game, his Achilles heel can be his defence.
Long's biggest failing has been his big-match temperament. Playing on his home ground, Knowsley Rd, in the June test, he carved the Kiwis up at will, scoring two tries.
But the Kangaroos, in particular, have been able to get to him physically and get inside his head. After a 2003 Ashes test blighted by missed tackles and shanked shots at goal, Long admitted he didn't like the pressure of goal kicking at international level. He was dumped for the next test. Long is probably only one poor performance from being relegated to the bench. But he is more than capable of winning a match almost single-handedly.

4: The X-factor
Danny McGuire
* Position: Stand-off
* Age: 23
* Height: 1.78m
* Weight: 82kg
* Caps: 6
* Honours: One Super League Grand Final victory, one World Club Challenge victory
Considering he can't tackle, hardly ever makes a line break and isn't a great distributor, McGuire might seem a curious player to fear.
But the lively stand-off has one thing that makes people sit up and take notice - the X-factor.
Undoubtedly the best support player in the British game, McGuire's ability to collect an offload and score from anywhere on the paddock is unrivalled. In open space his pace and evasion skills come into their own.
The darling of the British media and hailed as a potential Lions saviour, McGuire has scored a remarkable 87 tries in the past three seasons.
Like Long, he missed last year's campaign due to injury, but is expected to be a factor this time around.
His breakout season came in 2004 when he scored 39 tries, including the match-winner for Leeds in their grand final victory over Bradford.
But McGuire's introduction to the international game has been measured.
He is more often than not used from the bench, and even then sparingly. McGuire has been named at stand-off for tomorrow night but it's uncertain whether he has the full confidence of his coach.
If McGuire fails in Christchurch, he could be replaced by the more dependable Richard Horne.
The two tries McGuire scored against the Kiwis in the June test after getting the start at six suggest his star could be on the rise and the calls in the media for his permanent elevation have reached a crescendo.
Those calls have been answered and McGuire has been given a chance. If he seizes it the Kiwis could be in for a long night.

5: The pack leader
Stuart Fielden
* Position: Prop
* Age: 27
* Height: 1.88m
* Weight: 112kg
* Caps: 23
* Honours: three Super League grand final victories, three World Club Challenge victories, one Challenge Cup
Despite being a relative unknown Downunder, Fielden is the best prop in the world.
At 1.88m and 112kg with a body fat percentage lower than Kate Moss, Fielden is one mean hombre.
Consistently ranked as the world's number two prop behind Shane Webcke, Fielden now has a legitimate claim to inherit the title.
A key part in Bradford's five years of success, he followed Brian Noble to Wigan and was at least as a big a factor in the club's revival.
An intense character, Fielden enjoys fantasy novels, standing too close to journalists during interviews and bashing Australians.
His physique and full-throttle approach to the game has led some Australian opponents to unfairly describe stopping him as like trying to tackle former Melbourne Storm drug cheat Rodney Howe. But any suggestion steroids are the secret to Fielden's success are laughable.
As a rule, Fielden spends at least 30 minutes doing extras after training. The sight of Fielden mercilessly practising his tackling technique on an unfortunate assistant coach long after his last team-mate has rolled out of the car park is far from uncommon.
In September 2004, Fielden's feud with Aussie veteran Jason Smith boiled over in brutal fashion.
The two had history, with Fielden having served a suspension for a raised knee in a tackle that left himself with wrecked ligaments and Smith with a season-ending shoulder injury.
When Bradford travelled to Hull the following year, Fielden flattened Smith in a crunching spot tackle. Smith had to leave the field and the enraged crowd bayed for Fielden's blood. In the second half, Smith returned, bent on revenge. Twice he lashed out at Fielden in the play-the-ball without getting a reaction. Smith wasn't so lucky on the third occasion, however, as Fielden threw the ball away and unleashed a hail of blows that left Smith's face resembling raw hamburger. Smith left the field and did not return.
"Jason's a great player and a great bloke," Fielden said after the match. "It was nothing personal."
Truly scary.

Graham Lowe: Stand by for the GBH
Friday October 27, 2006

Fire and brimstone in test footy. We all love it and I'm expecting it from this Great Britain team who look a bit like they are from the old school and give me the impression they want to set the record straight.
There's a tendency to disrespect Great Britain teams because of the perceived standard of football in their Super League. The league game was born in England and many argue that internationally it has already died there. But I rate this mob highly. This Lions outfit has class.
For the first time in years they look as though they have the goods but the Kiwis also have a pack capable of defending their position at Jade Stadium which, although more used to hosting the kick and clap game, is an ideal venue for the fireworks tomorrow night.
The Kiwis are in a desperate situation and must be prepared for anything and this could be a boilover in the opening minutes.
Despite what they might say publicly, Kiwis coach Brian McClennan and Great Britain's Brian Noble will not discourage their forwards from trying to gain an advantage with intimidation, and I don't mean poking their tongues out at each other.
For the Kiwis, much depends on how they have recovered from last Saturday night's killer blow in the dying minutes against Australia.
The Kiwis were beaten by individual brilliance. As a team they outplayed Australia but didn't get the result.
I know the easy part of coaching a footy side is preparing your team to beat another. You look at the opposition, have a fair idea what to expect, and how it can be countered. I also know the most difficult and heart-breaking side of the job is dealing with the individual brilliance your team may encounter.
All you can do is try to reduce the damage of that brilliance.
Players like Australia's skipper, Darren Lockyer, and his teenage superstar team-mate Greg Inglis, are so good that no matter what defence you put in front of them it may not be enough. They can see opportunities other players can't and also the time to take advantage of what they see.
Inglis will beat many more top international players just as easily as he beat Brent Webb and Shontayne Hape, they don't need to beat themselves up.
That scorching try to Inglis off the brilliant Lockyer pass grew the green and golds another leg and at that stage I knew we were gone.
As a coach, when you are up against these players you hope their effect on the game is going to be minimal, but you are so often left with your heart in your mouth and your head in your hands.
I prayed hard at times during my coaching career, although more often than not the god of coaches seemed to ignore my pleas - except for one memorable occasion in 1984.
Current Great Britain coach Noble was the hooker and captain of the 1984 Pommies who toured Australia and New Zealand. His team-mate Ellery Henry was a world-class centre or five-eighth, but the-then Great Britain coach Frank Myler played Hanley out of position on the wing against Australia.
I fancied our chances against Great Britain - if Hanley stayed in that position. During the press conference at the Sydney Cricket Ground following the third test in Australia, I was asked what I thought was Great Britain's biggest danger for the Kiwis.
I replied (tongue firmly in cheek) I thought Hanley was the best winger I'd ever seen. My prayers were answered for the first two tests and we won.
Myler changed tactics for the third test and played Hanley at centre. Although we eventually won that test as well, shifting their best player back to his more accustomed position nearly cost us the game. He was brilliant.
Noble is now one of the most experienced coaches in the game and also one of the smartest. His best players will not be out of position.
And that brings me back to my earlier point about underestimating this Great Britain team. They will be the surprise packet of the series because of the disrespect they are shown by many in the NRL when it comes to comparing standards in the Super League.
It's football suicide to think this Pommie team come from a weaker competition. The disrespect that many commentators, club officials, players and fans from New Zealand and Australia have shown the British game could provide the springboard to Pommie success.
They have a strong forward pack and a good attacking back line.
While Willie Mason has dominated many of the headlines, the Poms have a couple of their own quite capable of making their presence felt.
Stuart Fielden is 112kg, extremely mobile for a front rower. He likes to play the full 80 minutes, although I'd expect that to be too big an ask in the intensity of tomorrow night's game.
Front-rower Adrian Morley might be lacking in match condition after sitting out a 10-week suspension, but he will be out to make a huge mark on the game.
However, the Great Britain halves are the biggest threats to the Kiwis. Danny McGuire and Sean Long are specialist, live-wire players in their positions and capable of creating something out of nothing. Like Lockyer and Inglis, all you can do is reduce their options.
The Kiwis have their own point to prove after getting hammered in the one-off game against Great Britain in June when we were not at full strength and, I believe, took the game far too lightly.
The Kiwis have not had a win since and these Tri-Nations games won't get any easier.
McClennan has every right to feel shattered after last Saturday's loss, because for most of the game his team outplayed Australia. It was a great improvement on the first Tri-Nations game where the Kiwis looked lost in attack and disorganised in defence.
But now it's a new kettle of fish for Bluey and a canny Noble will make sure the task is no easier.
Noble will have noticed the Kiwis have had problems reading the second-man plays by Australia. This to me was the most obvious chink in New Zealand's defensive armour last Saturday night.
The Kiwis can expect the same tactic from the Lions tomorrow and some blood and thunder.
 

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