Questions about the North Sydney Bears/Northern Eagles

[Knight87]

1) Why did the North Sydney Bears try to relocate to Gosford at the end of the 1998 season?
2) Why wasn't the stadium in Gosford ready by 1999?
3) Who was responsible for the disintegration of the North Sydney Bears?
4) Why did they get kicked out of the comp when the Northern Eagles folded, and Manly still remained?
5) What did people think of the Northern Eagles on both the Central Coast and Manly, during the time? Did you go to any of their games?

 

[Mal Meninga]

Just to add - It's a shame that North Sydney Oval is never being used anymore.

 

[Coastbloke]

1) Why did the North Sydney Bears try to relocate to Gosford at the end of the 1998 season?
2) Why wasn't the stadium in Gosford ready by 1999?
3) Who was responsible for the disintegration of the North Sydney Bears?
4) Why did they get kicked out of the comp when the Northern Eagles folded, and Manly still remained?
5) What did people think of the Northern Eagles on both the Central Coast and Manly, during the time? Did you go to any of their games?

1. Super League

2. Weather

3. Super League

4. Super League

5. Central Coast - pure hatred. Manly - Knew it was Manly and supported them

 

[Timmah]

1) Why did the North Sydney Bears try to relocate to Gosford at the end of the 1998 season?
2) Why wasn't the stadium in Gosford ready by 1999?
3) Who was responsible for the disintegration of the North Sydney Bears?
4) Why did they get kicked out of the comp when the Northern Eagles folded, and Manly still remained?
5) What did people think of the Northern Eagles on both the Central Coast and Manly, during the time? Did you go to any of their games?

1 - They had a dear following on the Central Coast from all accounts, and Singo was willing to inject the money into it.
2 - sh*thouse weather and crapy construction company.
3 - Manly Warringah Sea Eagles *awaits bite*
4 - Manly bidded for the license, Norths were basically unfinancial
5 - 2000, a godsend for the Coast. As years progressed, the club became a wolf (Manly) in sheeps (NE/CC/NS) clothing. By 2002, we didn't want "Manly" on the Coast.

 

[sharko]

1) Why did the North Sydney Bears try to relocate to Gosford at the end of the 1998 season?
2) Why wasn't the stadium in Gosford ready by 1999?
3) Who was responsible for the disintegration of the North Sydney Bears?
4) Why did they get kicked out of the comp when the Northern Eagles folded, and Manly still remained?
5) What did people think of the Northern Eagles on both the Central Coast and Manly, during the time? Did you go to any of their games?

1. It was at the height of the so called peace deal, the News Ltd were looking to cull teams, they were already going to kill off Souths so they needed another sacrifice, a non SL team of course. The Bears were advised that North Sydney Oval was no longer suitable for first grade League, 80 odd years of playing there did not count. The Bears then agreed to fund some of Gosford and transfer up there..Whittaker agreed they would qualify for a regional licence and be safe.

2. Rain and major defects in construction-a slab supporting one of the stands had to be replaced which meant the whole stand had to come down, then more rain..what the Bears needed was a drought ironically.

3. The board of the footy club and leagues club..President Ray Beattie and Bob Saunders brought in an administrator..all salaries and contract monies frozen..except Saunders and Beattie were paid in full the week of the administator arriving..the players and other employees were paid up to 12 - 18 months later. The administrator said debts were 1.6 million over 2 years and he advised a joint venture with Manly..News Ltd thru Ian Philip their counsel and Gallop the News Ltd lawyer confirmed the Bears would not be considered for a licence. That just left Souths to kill off.

4. Manly qualified under the criteria and had a licence but wanted Gosford and the money that went with it.

5. The j/v was a rabble under the Manly banner and they soon moved back to Brookvale when the money from moving up to Gosford ran out and NS Leagues stopped putting in a couple of million a year.

A messy business all round and now soccer and AFL have moved in in strength on the north shore of Sydney and Gosford..Union are angling to set a team up out of Bear Park.

RIP rugby league on the north side of Sydney.

 

[t-ba]

1 - They had a dear following on the Central Coast from all accounts, and Singo was willing to inject the money into it.
2 - sh*thouse weather and crapy construction company.
3 - Manly Warringah Sea Eagles *awaits bite*
4 - Manly bidded for the license, Norths were basically unfinancial
5 - 2000, a godsend for the Coast. As years progressed, the club became a wolf (Manly) in sheeps (NE/CC/NS) clothing. By 2002, we didn't want "Manly" on the Coast.

Wrong on those two.

3-Norths somehow managed to turn themselves from one of the strongest clubs financially in 1998 from a basketcase $16m in debt (cut to $4m after the Leagues club injected $12m) and in administration a couple of weeks before the licenses were handed out. Manly can hardly be blamed for the dire financial position of Norths. The NRL can however be blamed for deciding to insert a solvency criteria into the Licensing process when Norths went under, thus barring them from admission.

4-It was Manly's license! North Sydney were always the junior partner and the terms of the license stipulated that if the JV dissolved, the license would revert to Manly unless we couldn't find the finances to keep on going, in which the Bears would get it. NS Leagues and John Singleton sensed that Manly was probably too weak to continue on about halfway through the 2001 season and the Leagues club refused to contribute anything beyond a dollar for dollar match with the MWSE Leagues Club. It blew up in their faces when the JV dissolved and we found the cash to carry on.

5's a matter of personal opinion. There was a serious school of thought that Manly would be unable to survive on the Peninsula, and with Arko behind that group, there was little doubt they'd roll over any opposition ( Paul Vautin basically carried the flag by himself). The only way the JV wasn't going to end up a predatory affair was if success was produced on the field, and that simply didn't happen, and it degenerated into a sh*tfight over the license.

I was personally thrilled with the Merger. Being a Manly fan from the North Shore, it combined my two favourite sides into one. I was well alone in that opinion.

 

[t-ba]

1. It was at the height of the so called peace deal, the News Ltd were looking to cull teams, they were already going to kill off Souths so they needed another sacrifice, a non SL team of course. The Bears were advised that North Sydney Oval was no longer suitable for first grade League, 80 odd years of playing there did not count. The Bears then agreed to fund some of Gosford and transfer up there..Whittaker agreed they would qualify for a regional licence and be safe.

2. Rain and major defects in construction-a slab supporting one of the stands had to be replaced which meant the whole stand had to come down, then more rain..what the Bears needed was a drought ironically.

3. The board of the footy club and leagues club..President Ray Beattie and Bob Saunders brought in an administrator..all salaries and contract monies frozen..except Saunders and Beattie were paid in full the week of the administator arriving..the players and other employees were paid up to 12 - 18 months later. The administrator said debts were 1.6 million over 2 years and he advised a joint venture with Manly..News Ltd thru Ian Philip their counsel and Gallop the News Ltd lawyer confirmed the Bears would not be considered for a licence. That just left Souths to kill off.

4. Manly qualified under the criteria and had a licence but wanted Gosford and the money that went with it.

5. The j/v was a rabble under the Manly banner and they soon moved back to Brookvale when the money from moving up to Gosford ran out and NS Leagues stopped putting in a couple of million a year.

A messy business all round and now soccer and AFL have moved in in strength on the north shore of Sydney and Gosford..Union are angling to set a team up out of Bear Park.

RIP rugby league on the north side of Sydney.

They could have argued that one. It wasn't anywhere in the initial criteria.

 

[Timmah]

t-ba... read the white text

 

[sharko]

Wrong on those two.

3-Norths somehow managed to turn themselves from one of the strongest clubs financially in 1998 from a basketcase $16m in debt (cut to $4m after the Leagues club injected $12m) and in administration a couple of weeks before the licenses were handed out. Manly can hardly be blamed for the dire financial position of Norths. The NRL can however be blamed for deciding to insert a solvency criteria into the Licensing process when Norths went under, thus barring them from admission.

4-It was Manly's license! North Sydney were always the junior partner and the terms of the license stipulated that if the JV dissolved, the license would revert to Manly unless we couldn't find the finances to keep on going, in which the Bears would get it. NS Leagues and John Singleton sensed that Manly was probably too weak to continue on about halfway through the 2001 season and the Leagues club refused to contribute anything beyond a dollar for dollar match with the MWSE Leagues Club. It blew up in their faces when the JV dissolved and we found the cash to carry on.

5's a matter of personal opinion. There was a serious school of thought that Manly would be unable to survive on the Peninsula, and with Arko behind that group, there was little doubt they'd roll over any opposition ( Paul Vautin basically carried the flag by himself). The only way the JV wasn't going to end up a predatory affair was if success was produced on the field, and that simply didn't happen, and it degenerated into a sh*tfight over the license.

I was personally thrilled with the Merger. Being a Manly fan from the North Shore, it combined my two favourite sides into one. I was well alone in that opinion.

$16 million now your imagintion is running wild.

The Bears like every club then and now in the NRL was in debt ..clubs are usually permitted to trade out of their debts..ie playing football, getting revenue from tv and crowds and sponsors etc..unfortunately the Bears debt was used to exclude them from the comp, politics and bad timing.

If you were to use the criteria that a club in debt be excluded from the comp then there may be a one team NRL comp..maybe.

And you cannot take on News Ltd lawyers who are also deciding who plays in the comp and who do not play in the comp..Souths did it and did it well it is a shame the Bears could not.

 

[Red Bear]

Norths should never have decided to move in 1998, should've stayed at North Sydney and assured they were ready financially. Having said thatits slightly f**ked when weather is a large factor inthe demise of a side.

 

[t-ba]

$16 million now your imagintion is running wild.

16-12=4 is something that's often bandied about on here. I'd love an actual source because it's largely hearsay on this board in regards to the actual figure. Could you throw one this way?

The Bears like every club then and now in the NRL was in debt ..clubs are usually permitted to trade out of their debts..ie playing football, getting revenue from tv and crowds and sponsors etc..unfortunately the Bears debt was used to exclude them from the comp, politics and bad timing.

How many clubs are in administration at the moment? it's a pretty crippling situation to be in compared to debt.

If you were to use the criteria that a club in debt be excluded from the comp then there may be a one team NRL comp..maybe.

I don't think it was a matter of being in debt so much as being in administration at the time.

And you cannot take on News Ltd lawyers who are also deciding who plays in the comp and who do not play in the comp..Souths did it and did it well it is a shame the Bears could not.

I don't see why not really.

 

[t-ba]

Norths should never have decided to move in 1998, should've stayed at North Sydney and assured they were ready financially. Having said thatits slightly f**ked when weather is a large factor inthe demise of a side.

Yeah, that decision was stupid. Norths would have been better playing out of the SFS if they weren't allowed to play out of NS Oval than risking it all on a relocation. Then maybe move to the CC. Judging by how keen the NS Council was to get Souths at NS Oval a few years back, I imagine a few years without the money that the Bears generated in the local area would have convinced the council to be more amenable to imrpoving the standard of NS Oval.

 

[CC_Eagle]

As a Manly fan and a Coastie, I was f*cking thrilled when Manly moved back home.

It just didn't feel right.

 

[bboy_insane]

As a Manly fan and a Coastie, I was f*cking thrilled when Manly moved back home.

It just didn't feel right.

Yeah I was stoked, the first two home games were extraordinary! Then it was all downhill.

 

[girvie]

Just to add - It's a shame that North Sydney Oval is never being used anymore.

North Sydney Bears still play Premier League and junior matches at North Sydney Oval. You should come to a match.

 

[Knight87]

1. It was at the height of the so called peace deal, the News Ltd were looking to cull teams, they were already going to kill off Souths so they needed another sacrifice, a non SL team of course. The Bears were advised that North Sydney Oval was no longer suitable for first grade League, 80 odd years of playing there did not count. The Bears then agreed to fund some of Gosford and transfer up there..Whittaker agreed they would qualify for a regional licence and be safe.

2. Rain and major defects in construction-a slab supporting one of the stands had to be replaced which meant the whole stand had to come down, then more rain..what the Bears needed was a drought ironically.

3. The board of the footy club and leagues club..President Ray Beattie and Bob Saunders brought in an administrator..all salaries and contract monies frozen..except Saunders and Beattie were paid in full the week of the administator arriving..the players and other employees were paid up to 12 - 18 months later. The administrator said debts were 1.6 million over 2 years and he advised a joint venture with Manly..News Ltd thru Ian Philip their counsel and Gallop the News Ltd lawyer confirmed the Bears would not be considered for a licence. That just left Souths to kill off.

4. Manly qualified under the criteria and had a licence but wanted Gosford and the money that went with it.

5. The j/v was a rabble under the Manly banner and they soon moved back to Brookvale when the money from moving up to Gosford ran out and NS Leagues stopped putting in a couple of million a year.

A messy business all round and now soccer and AFL have moved in in strength on the north shore of Sydney and Gosford..Union are angling to set a team up out of Bear Park.

RIP rugby league on the north side of Sydney.

However,

1) How come the players werent paid for 12-18 months after (as you said in Question 3. So, Norths didnt get paid at all during the '99 season. They only got paid like 30% of what they were suppose to?)? Like, how come they didn't have money to pay the players? And why weren't they offered the license as you said that Gallop said they wouldnt be, when earlier you said that Whittaker guaranteed them a license for moving to Central Coast?

2) Why did Norths play home games at Parramatta and Lang Park in '99 if North Sydney Oval wasnt considered to be viable to play at anymore, and then they moved back to North Sydney Oval later that year? What about North Sydney Oval made it not viable to play at, when only a couple of years or so, SOuths played a home game there?

 

[Knightmare]

1) Why did the North Sydney Bears try to relocate to Gosford at the end of the 1998 season?
2) Why wasn't the stadium in Gosford ready by 1999?
3) Who was responsible for the disintegration of the North Sydney Bears?
4) Why did they get kicked out of the comp when the Northern Eagles folded, and Manly still remained?
5) What did people think of the Northern Eagles on both the Central Coast and Manly, during the time? Did you go to any of their games?

1. Relocation to a growing area with a huge junior base. The NRL encouraged it, then shut the door in their noses at the last minute. F**ksticks.

2. There were monetary issues and rain held up construction.

3. The Leagues club- they wouldn't put money into the football club just when they needed it not to go broke. If the Leagues club had done it just that one more time, the Bears would've been solvent and then managed to survive in the NRL as a stand alone entity.

4. Manly had the original licence for the NRL, and Norths didn't. Also the NRL decided that having a team from Manly, a team from Gosford and no byes was just way too much of an easy, feelgood solution, what with Souths coming back at the same time and all, that they said "No- 15 teams forever." :sarcasm:

5. Manly people- I don't know. Central Coast people- mostly didn't care or (like me) hated the team because it was more or less Manly with a different name. I went to their games and cheered for the opposition team. Only the gullible saw the Eagles as a home team.

 

[Big-Steve]

North Sydney Bears still play Premier League and junior matches at North Sydney Oval. You should come to a match.

Yeah as much as the past hurts and it still affects many peoples' lives The biggest thing Bears Fans and Bears friendly people can do is get their bums on a seat at Bear Park (when the Bears are playing of course).

Last weekend I saw some of the most spectacular play in ages in the 2 junior matches played. If this is not attractive for you ex Bars Fans I would question if you ever really were one.

The NRL have not just excluded NS from an NRL team they are making no consideration that a 'North Sydney District' still exists as can be seen by the under 20s comp. If people got to NSO and showed some interest this may change.

It's up to you Bears Fans. Do you want your club to survive???

 

[shaggy]

the sea eagles were able to get back into the league via max delmage with him becoming the owner of the team

as for union on the central coast, this is their second attempt, Gordan Highlanders reloacted their for a season to captialise on the area and became the 2G0 Highlanders (with naming rights to a local station on the coast) but failed and the next season they were back at Gordan

 

[t-ba]

the sea eagles were able to get back into the league via max delmage with him becoming the owner of the team

as for union on the central coast, this is their second attempt, Gordan Highlanders reloacted their for a season to captialise on the area and became the 2G0 Highlanders (with naming rights to a local station on the coast) but failed and the next season they were back at Gordan

Delmege didn't become an owner until the JV was well and truly dead and buried. He didn't become a sponsor until the 'Neagles' left the Central Coast.