R1 // Panthers 30-8 Knights @ Sportingbet // Sat 4.30pm

[perverse]

I don't get the term over-achieved, to be honest. You mean to say that we peaked at the right time and played to our full ability when it counted - surely? That's the real key to making and/or winning a Grand Final. Bennett has been the master of it for 17 odd years. It's not at all uncommon for a Bennett team to start the year very slowly... but come September...

 

[Swarzey]

Me things people just want to use it as an excuse to limit the credit we should be given for our run.

Typical though. People raved on and on about Manly, Storm, Souths and Roosters being the teams that "should" be there in the prelims but suddenly, when a team defies that idea, they're clutching at every straw under the sun to make it look like a complete fluke.

When the "experts" are wrong, there are people that simply refuse to accept that they're so. That's something that bothers me too; these "experts" refuse to open their minds to other possibilities and have their own vision of how the season will wrap up only weeks into the competition. How often did we hear the top 4 being miles ahead of the bottom half of the 8? We were 3 wins away from 4th and no doubt there were 3 loses that should have been wins.

Over-achieved my ass. All that stood between us and a grand final berth was a grub's elbow and I'll keep to that belief till we reach the big dance.

 

[perverse]

I still think the Roosters would have bested us due to a size mismatch in the front row... but then we did show we could punch above our weight in the forwards mainly due to our outstanding defence. Anything is possible, but last year wasn't our year for mine. We can be better.

 

[Apey]

I don't get the term over-achieved, to be honest. You mean to say that we peaked at the right time and played to our full ability when it counted - surely? That's the real key to making and/or winning a Grand Final. Bennett has been the master of it for 17 odd years. It's not at all uncommon for a Bennett team to start the year very slowly... but come September...

I think our run had more to do with the emotional Bedsy factor than peaking at the right time personally. Could be wrong. The Roosters game was a pretty big reality check of how far off we were. Yeah, we lost our leader in Buderus due to injury, and I expected we'd lose after that... but not to the extent that we did. It felt like we were riding on the emotion of a possible perfect send-off... and when that possibility was gone we were brought back to reality.

That being said, with my excellent tipping, my DreamTeam's excellent performance and the Knights' fantastic start to the season, I am in pessimist mode.

 

[Apey]

Me things people just want to use it as an excuse to limit the credit we should be given for our run.

Typical though. People raved on and on about Manly, Storm, Souths and Roosters being the teams that "should" be there in the prelims but suddenly, when a team defies that idea, they're clutching at every straw under the sun to make it look like a complete fluke.

When the "experts" are wrong, there are people that simply refuse to accept that they're so. That's something that bothers me too; these "experts" refuse to open their minds to other possibilities and have their own vision of how the season will wrap up only weeks into the competition. How often did we hear the top 4 being miles ahead of the bottom half of the 8? We were 3 wins away from 4th and no doubt there were 3 loses that should have been wins.

Over-achieved my ass. All that stood between us and a grand final berth was a grub's elbow and I'll keep to that belief till we reach the big dance.

Good for you. Sounds like complete bias to me but okay.

Nobody was implying it was a fluke. We deserved to get as far as we did and then got a nice reality check. Let's see how we go this year when we aren't riding on the emotion of sending off a club legend. If we can get to that place again (or obviously if we go even further) then I'll be convinced that people in this forum don't grossly exaggerate how good our team is.

 

[perverse]

I think our run had more to do with the emotional Bedsy factor than peaking at the right time personally. Could be wrong. The Roosters game was a pretty big reality check of how far off we were. Yeah, we lost our leader in Buderus due to injury, and I expected we'd lose after that... but not to the extent that we did. It felt like we were riding on the emotion off a possible perfect send-off... and when that possibility was gone we came back to reality.

That being said, with my excellent tipping, my DreamTeam's excellent performance and the Knights' fantastic start to the season, I am in pessimist mode.

Yeah but you've got to ask yourself why we lost, and would have lost to the Roosters anyway? For mine - it had nothing to do with the talent of our team overall and everything to do with the fact that they just had more size than us and could bully us more than most teams could. JWH was in immense form at the time, and was too much for us to handle. We mostly limited SBW's impact by covering those around him well.

If what rnb11 says is true - that we're targeting a mid-season signing in the forwards to make up for Packer (and a big name, at that) - then I see no reason why we can't improve on last year. I also have no reason to doubt rnb11, he/she seems to have a lot of good info from close to the club. Mullen is ready to peak over the next few years, Boyd has found his Knights rhythm and is an invaluable member of the team, our young forwards are a year older and our squad has shed a few old blokes in general. Packer was a very important ingredient for us to step it up a notch this year - if we can get someone as good, or better... we will be laughing as far as I'm concerned.

I don't see any reason to believe that we can't improve on last year aside from the fact that we had our left bollock shot off when we lost Mullo. If we can salvage something out of the mess until he returns, I can't see a reason to either downplay our run last year, or doubt that we can do it again this year.

 

[Apey]

Yeah but you've got to ask yourself why we lost, and would have lost to the Roosters anyway? For mine - it had nothing to do with the talent of our team overall and everything to do with the fact that they just had more size than us and could bully us more than most teams could. JWH was in immense form at the time, and was too much for us to handle. We mostly limited SBW's impact by covering those around him well.

That is kind of my point. I don't think we have the team to match it with the best teams. Maybe this forward signing (god I hope we aren't going to be disappointed :lol will change my opinion on that though. I feel like saying not big enough instead of not talented enough is a semantics in a way, too. The team wasn't 'good' enough because they weren't big enough. A good team has size, skill, etc, etc. Anyway, like you say below...

If what rnb11 says is true - that we're targeting a mid-season signing in the forwards to make up for Packer (and a big name, at that) - then I see no reason why we can't improve on last year. I also have no reason to doubt rnb11, he/she seems to have a lot of good info from close to the club. Mullen is ready to peak over the next few years, Boyd has found his Knights rhythm and is an invaluable member of the team, our young forwards are a year older and our squad has shed a few old blokes in general. Packer was a very important ingredient for us to step it up a notch this year - if we can get someone as good, or better... we will be laughing as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, I don't disagree with this. I think we can and will improve overall as a team, especially as far as the regular season is concerned. I still have doubts about how we will/would fair in the final series without that emotional motivation... but it's only Round 1 and way too early to be making claims either way.

I can't see a reason to either downplay our run last year

meh, agree to disagree on this I suppose.

 

[perverse]

Above all else I just don't think you're putting much faith in Bennett, to be honest. You might think I'm putting too much in.

I reckon Bennett feels that he's a couple of forwards away from a premiership shot with our team. I ascertain this because he puts the utmost faith in Roberts, our backline is excellent and he was trying to bring Packer in. I'm willing to back this team to go all the way.

Apey, you say that our roster is not as good as some make it out to be, and that we over-achieved last year. I'm saying we're only a forward or 2 (and one we would have had had it not been for an off season blunder) away from a team that can win the premiership. If adding one or 2 forwards changes a team from "over-rated" to "premiership force" in your eyes, then I'm surprised. Do you have any other issues with our roster, or do you think as I do that we're close?

 

[Bring it home Knights]

I don't get the term over-achieved, to be honest. You mean to say that we peaked at the right time and played to our full ability when it counted - surely? That's the real key to making and/or winning a Grand Final. Bennett has been the master of it for 17 odd years. It's not at all uncommon for a Bennett team to start the year very slowly... but come September...

I agree 100%. From the outside looking in, it appeared the knights concentrated on fundamentals for the first half of the season, before they started adding new dimensions to their game. In the finals we started bringing in more second phase player as well as having more players in motion. If Bedsy didn't get injured and we had Snowden out there against the Roosters, then I think we would have been a far more competitive side that night.

I only saw the first half of the Penrith game, but Snowden looked strong against the opposition by making good metres after impact and defending strongly.

 

[Apey]

Above all else I just don't think you're putting much faith in Bennett, to be honest. You might think I'm putting too much in.

You could be right about the former. Will elaborate below.

Apey, you say that our roster is not as good as some make it out to be, and that we over-achieved last year. I'm saying we're only a forward or 2 (and one we would have had had it not been for an off season blunder) away from a team that can win the premiership. If adding one or 2 forwards changes a team from "over-rated" to "premiership force" in your eyes, then I'm surprised. Do you have any other issues with our roster, or do you think as I do that we're close?

It's more the team's mentality than anything else and maybe a touch of overrating our players in general. That's why I was referring to the Buderus influence frequently, that just improved our mentality tenfold. For me it comes back to Wayne's 'what team will get off the bus' comment. Like I said before with the 'good' team musings, along with skill, size, blah blah, you of course have mentality. Assuming our team is firing at full cylinders mentally, no, I do not think we're that far off from the top echelon of teams. On their day (and that's the key here), our spine and backline are awesome. Forwards, not so much, but they still do a pretty good job against better packs (again, on their day). I think people overrate our players in terms of glossing over consistency issues rather than their ability or talent.

Yeah, I agree, with 1 or 2 strong forward signings we have the talent to genuinely compete for the title. It will probably take a lot for me to be sold on their consistency and mental fortitude, though. We can look like world-beaters one week and deadset average the next.

So yes, maybe is this a lack of faith in Bennett, or maybe it's one (albeit good) run late into the finals hasn't convinced me that this problem, a problem that has still been obvious in Bennett's tenure here, is now solved. Maybe it's both...

 

[perverse]

I think the problem you're referring to - our mentality to football - has been on a constant incline upward since he got here. A slow one, but constant and upward. I think it took a sharp spike upward late last year - Buderus factor was certainly a thing, but I feel like there is long term, stable improvement in that area, too. Our defence and attitude was outstanding at the Nines, and it was in the Panthers game until the wheels compeltely fell off and fatigue got us, too. I feel like we've set a standard for our blokes and built a lot of belief over the past 12 months.

I do think a lot of that belief will be tied to Mullen, though. I think our boys know they can do it without their fragile captain - but in the back of their minds they will know they can't win it all without Mullo. Boyd may or may not be in that class, too.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

You could be right about the former. Will elaborate below.



It's more the team's mentality than anything else and maybe a touch of overrating our players in general. That's why I was referring to the Buderus influence frequently, that just improved our mentality tenfold.For me it comes back to Wayne's 'what team will get off the bus' comment.Like I said before with the 'good' team musings, along with skill, size, blah blah, you of course have mentality. Assuming our team is firing at full cylinders mentally, no, I do not think we're that far off from the top echelon of teams. On their day (and that's the key here), our spine and backline are awesome. Forwards, not so much, but they still do a pretty good job against better packs (again, on their day). I think people overrate our players in terms of glossing over consistency issues rather than their ability or talent.

Yeah, I agree, with 1 or 2 strong forward signings we have the talent to genuinely compete for the title. It will probably take a lot for me to be sold on their consistency and mental fortitude, though. We can look like world-beaters one week and deadset average the next.

So yes, maybe is this a lack of faith in Bennett, or maybe it's one (albeit good) run late into the finals hasn't convinced me that this problem, a problem that has still been obvious in Bennett's tenure here, is now solved. Maybe it's both...

I personally thought that for the 2nd half of the season, the Knights turned up every week and had a real dig. That imo shows a good mental fortitude. Plus the team wasn't overawed in the big end of season games. That also shows a team full of self belief.

 

[Dave_]

Over-exaggeration. Other clubs have had similar injuries. Our roster is not as good as some claim it to be. We over-achieved last year.

In fairness, I'd have to say a teams roster is as good as the results they achieve.

 

[Dave_]

Me things people just want to use it as an excuse to limit the credit we should be given for our run.

Typical though. People raved on and on about Manly, Storm, Souths and Roosters being the teams that "should" be there in the prelims but suddenly, when a team defies that idea, they're clutching at every straw under the sun to make it look like a complete fluke.

When the "experts" are wrong, there are people that simply refuse to accept that they're so. That's something that bothers me too; these "experts" refuse to open their minds to other possibilities and have their own vision of how the season will wrap up only weeks into the competition. How often did we hear the top 4 being miles ahead of the bottom half of the 8? We were 3 wins away from 4th and no doubt there were 3 loses that should have been wins.

Over-achieved my ass. All that stood between us and a grand final berth was a grub's elbow and I'll keep to that belief till we reach the big dance.

Yes yes yes yes yes. And yes. Especially the grubs elbow.