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rahman v lewis

O

ozbash

Guest
november 17th will show us if lennox has the cluster to get his title back. i doubt it somehow. good read from 2nds out...

The bottom line in the heavyweight division gets to be drawn or re-drawn on November 17 at the Mandalay Bay Resort in Las Vegas when champ and ex-champ square up one more time. Like it or not, for world heavyweight champion Hasim Rahman he's in a "must prove" situation against the gifted Lennox Lewis, determined to show that without doubt the title belongs around his waist. Rarely has a fighter been put in this must prove framework after dropping the reigning champion with a right hand bomb in the fifth round to score a shuddering stoppage and annex the crown. As the doubts linger and materialize in editorial comment around the globe, the confidence level at Hasim Rahman's Big Bear, California training camp has flown skyward. The foundation for the champ's pre-title rematch confidence comes, yes, from the Carnival City upset result in April, but also from Rahman's widely reported psychological knockdowns of the dreadlocked one on The Jim Rome Show and on Up Close during TV head-to-heads this summer in the US. So what's made Rahman such a glib-tongued media force? Rahman's co-main guy Steve Nelson laughs knowingly at the suggestion that his 28-year-old charge has been peeking in the mind games department going into the November rematch. "You learn a lot about psychology on the streets of Baltimore," the bubbly Mr. Nelson told SecondsOut. "He's quick witted and very smart and he takes challenges personally. And he feels like winning every single battle with Lennox inside the ring and outside. So he feels he wants to win the physical battle and he's going to win the psychological battle as well. He doesn't want to give Lennox an inch." Where once fights actually began when the fighters signed to meet one another at semi-public contract signings, "now it starts at the press conferences," Nelson confirming for us that Rahman hasn't left that winning state of mind back in South Africa. "We told you last time that he was going to win the fight and he didn't have any doubts and this time we have even stronger feelings, if you can have any. And having done it once it is easier to imagine it the second time around." Of course, in winning their first fight, upset or not, a champions hubris or not, altitude ignorance or not, the reality of that brutalizing win for Rahman will be part of the mental contest that attenuates itself into the gloved contesting for domination. Only denial can aid Lewis back into anything like equivocation with Rahman. Thus the preparatory game for Lewis becomes internal revisionism and the internal game for Rahman becomes sustaining the certain knowledge of total belief. Beyond that one has to allow for the fact that Lewis is coming back directly into the lion's mouth in facing Rahman. Should Lewis have allowed for one intermediary bout before taking on Rahman? Clearly, it's a gamble, one that Lewis and trainer Emanuel Stewart feel compelled to undertake given Lewis' 36 years and the uncertainty of giving up one’s place in line for a shot at the heavyweight title. Thus Team Lewis went to court to have his contractual rights for an immediate rematch secured. "But historically, and I have said this before, the last thing you want to do - if you got knocked cold like Lennox got knocked cold - is go back and face the guy who did it to you immediately following. I think it's a terrible mistake on his part, but he wanted it and Rock's very willing to oblige," stated Nelson. "It's best to get this over. Rock is getting a little tired of Lennox and wants to eliminate him from everyone's mindset. So when he knocks him out the second time there won't be anymore talk about Lennox." Not looking past the former champ, just expecting to win big, Team Rahman breathed a titanic sigh of relief when Mike Tyson got past another professional body in Copenhagen last week. All financial mechanisms of the Rahman camp are targeting getting Mike Tyson in a boxing ring for the glory and the mammoth pay-off such a fight would ensure. Tyson represents the Midas Man in boxing and both the champ and Lennox Lewis are essentially fighting to make that their pension securing fight of a lifetime. That's what's ultimately going to drive Rahman and Lewis into a risk-it-at-all-costs punch out, that and Lewis' fading prime, Rahman's ego-trip. Most pundits are calling for a sterile Lewis jab-feast, defined by lateral defensive counter punches behind his all-time great left lead. Rahman might be forced to hustle forward and play more of the puncher than he's typically comfortable with. But the Tyson factor may just displace reason. All of that consideration for a guy who's now 240lbs, fighting face first and daring someone to slug and be slugged. "Obviously we were very happy that Mike Tyson was able to win. Ah... we just hope that he decides not to take all of these tune up fights that he says he's looking for before he gets to fight Rock in a championship fight. Because I tell ya, anything could happen to Mike Tyson right now. He definitely not the Mike Tyson that was destroying people." Naturally, now the headline that's not been written yet, one impressing itself in the minds of fighters such as Hasim Rahman and Kirk Johnson and Wladimir Klitschko has to be the fighters of the early 1990s are at last ready to be taken, beaten and retired. Caution and conservation such as Kirk Johnson typically utilizes must now give way to daring and decisiveness. Team Rahman are committed to such a course of action. "I think this is a very good thing for the sport. Taking our situation -- we had the 1990s with Tyson and Holyfield and Moorer, Bowe at the beginning, Rock is leading the new generation. The guys we really have to worry about are some of the guys who are coming up behind him not the guys who blazed the trail ahead of him. There are some good young fighters out there who will prove very tough opposition. And those are the fighters who we have to worry about more than the older generation. All of whom are ready for retirement as soon as they meet Rock in the ring." It's as if the stone has indeed been tossed into the big pond and the ripples are covering the waters for all those mid and late Thirty-somethings. Lewis and Tyson and even Holyfield are prepared to contest that point of view and yet the window open upon that assertion of the possible is indeed narrowing to a mere slit. "Well, we were prepared to fight Kirk before and he walked away before the fight was even made. We were ready for Johnson. Klitschko is the tough guy, there's no doubt about that. And, in the WBA situation, I kinda believe that in the Holyfield-Ruiz fight I am predicting a very close victory for Holyfield. Very close, very close! I just think that he's a guy who rises to challenges and he's looking for one last hurrah. “In fact, we would like to see that happen... anything can happen (with regards to a Rahman-WBA unification bout instead of Johnson mandatory) and we know that in boxing money talks. There will be more money in a Rahman unification bout in the winner of Holyfield-Ruiz than there would be in Kirk Johnson fighting the winner. (And) I don't want to get into that (Johnson step aside scenario) because it is a bit premature, but I think that when the public wants to see something, and there's demand, it usually happens." We might take that as prologue or warning or prediction, but it sounds good for Rahman and, by extension, possibly good for Lewis as well, should he win, and stormy weather on the horizon for Kirk Johnson. No doubt Don King who promotes both Holyfield and Rahman would love to make that unification bout and, in a sense, that must stand as Holyfield's mantra going into a proposed late November, early December WBA title fight. "After we knock out Lewis then all the fights are out there and we will be ready for all of them, one at a time." There's such a feeling of inevitable progression in Team Rahman. And yet many are sceptical - at best caught up in a suspension of disbelief they expect Lewis to release them from - with regards to Rahman being "the man" in heavyweight boxing. The supersonic failures of Michael Grant and David Tua and implosions of Andrew Golota and Ike Ibeabuchi has spray bombed this generation of contenders as a messed up lot of athletic mediocrity running the institution of the big boys. He has said consistently that he wants to fight the winner of Rahman-Lewis for the championship. (Tyson's Copenhagen admission) was a little shocking to us. I think he's a guy who's starting to have doubts about his own abilities. A confident fighter wants the biggest fight out there to go right to the top and isn't happy with anything in between." Having just completed his second week and now working into his third week, Rahman tries to keep his focus on the rematch. Talk mostly circles around fighters anyway, the play and contortions of contention and disputation being left for others. Having begun with light workouts in Baltimore with Adrian Davis 10 days after his title winning performance, and taking it up to the Catskills, the champ's been trying to keep to his "normal normal" throughout an obviously convulsive late summer. The Catskills at 4,000 feet above sea level was good prep time before moving shop to Big Bear at 5,000 feet. The target range for his weight, according to Steve Nelson will be 235 to 240 for the fight. "In that range that's a very much in shape Rahman." Early to mid-training camp mean sparring sessions get intense and the simulation workouts are worked on. The idea of conditioning turns to the purposes of specific performance standards and technical preparedness. Rahman's no longer in the sound studios; Lewis is himself carving out the details for his intended resurrection. Each knows most of the mysteries of the other and are absolutely sure that they have held more than enough in reserve to astound the other. Lewis has been saying that Rahman was lucky to land his title winning right hand and that he's not faced the real Lennox Lewis yet, but will on November 17 in Las Vegas. Rahman's still smiling at having pulled the trick once and suspects Lewis was in the ring with him last time. No wonder Team Rahman are making plans and weighing all aspects carefully during this the Rahman
 
Messages
4,446
Lennox underestimated his opponent, their first match was on at 5am or something wasn't it?? Some ridiculous time anyway, Lewis was probably out on the piss all night :) I think he will be more prepared this time, im tipping him to come out with points.
Lightning doesn't strike twice, i think Lewis is still seen as the no1 heavyweight in the world....
MFC.
 
M

mud n blood

Guest
I'm not convinced. I think is very soft, but will wait and see. Wouldn't surprise me if his career has ended ....
 
V

Vertigo

Guest
Rahman Not Taking Lewis’ Bait!
"It’s definitely a dream come true. What it meant to me is that I’m on the top
of the boxing world and what comes along with that is responsibility. My responsibility
is to dismiss this whole Buster Douglas thing.”
Hasim Rahman <span>BY ANDRE COURTEMANCHE
<u>Fightnews.com </u></span> <table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width="25%" align=left border=0> <tbody> <tr> <td height=70>
rahmankf.jpg
</td></tr> <tr> <td height=10> Photo: Karl Freitag
</td></tr></tbody></table> WBC, IBF, and IBO Heavyweight Champion Hasim "The Rock" Rahman, 35-2 (29), delivered his rebuttal yesterday to the controversial remarks made by Lennox Lewis and company on Tuesday. Rahman also says he has a surprise in store if Lewis is training to beat the Rahman he met in South Africa. From almost plunging off the cliff of obscurity only a few short years ago, he now sits atop the heavyweights with a calm and unflappable contentment. If the pre-fight demeanor of both men is an indication of how the rematch will go: advantage Rahman. Emanuel Steward said you were about to quit in your first fight with Lennox when you happened to land a lucky punch. Is that true?
No, I told Emanuel that with the blood coming in my eye, I didn’t know how long the fight would go, so I had to make my move right then and there. I was looking to fight a round or two. Lennox was under pressure and the fight was going twelve, so I was trying to stop the fight in the next round or two, similar to what I saw James Toney do in a fight before. His eye was cut, or swollen or something and the ref said I’ll give you one more round. I was really just thinking ahead of myself, like the ref is going to see this blood getting in my eye and he’s going to tell me he’s going to stop the fight, so I was under the impression that the fight would be stopped because the blood was directly going in my eye. I was just telling him what I was under the impression of. I never told him I would quit. That’s just a ploy he used to motivate Lennox Lewis, among other things. The last fight was even when the knockout came. Will this one be as close, or have you totally solved his style?
I believe I’ll get a little more credit this time for the things I do and I think the judges will look at it a little more evenly, so if I am outjabbing him and outpunching him, I think I’ll get a little more credit. I plan on doing that. I definitely won’t let him outpunch me, or outjab me. What has life been like for you as champion?
I just felt like when I won the title, there were a lot of responsibilities I had to accept and I’ve never been in that position before. To me, that was just part of the responsibility. I think it’s better that I was in court and in bed on time, than if I just had a wild, you know party setup in Hollywood and going to all the parties and being distracted that way. To me, I look at it as a good distraction. It really motivated me for this fight. (To Rahman’s managers) Stan (Hoffman) and Steve (Nelson), has the fact that Hasim spent the last seven months in court been a positive because he couldn’t get distracted?
(Steve Nelson) One thing is for sure; I’m going to agree completely with Rock. He tried to make a gentleman’s deal with Lennox Lewis about taking the interim fight and then fighting Lennox, but Lennox forced Rock and the rest of the team into the courtroom. I know Rock is so motivated to once again do away with Lennox and retire him once and for all. In that respect, it was absolutely a positive. (Stan Hoffman) It’s negative when you hear about it, and once you get into it, you just have to deal with it, so I don’t believe it’s negative, or it’s positive. Nothing has detoured us from our ultimate goal and quite frankly, you are going to see something very special come that date. What does being Heavyweight Champion mean to you?
It’s definitely a dream come true. What it meant to me is that I’m on the top of the boxing world and what comes along with that is responsibility. My responsibility is to dismiss this whole Buster Douglas thing. I think Buster Douglas lost that fight in training, which he wasn’t doing. From the weigh-in you’ll see a big difference in the way I trained and the way I’m presented and the way he was. I think it’s the responsibility of the champ to come fully prepared every time and no excuses. Lennox has given quite a different version of your fight and indicated that he chased you around the studio during your scuffle on ESPN, what do you think about that?
(Laughs) My answer is that you saw the fight and you know that this man has things completely misunderstood. You saw the first fight, so that’s the credibility. The referee counted to 10. He could have counted to 20 and not been able to continue. As far as him chasing me anywhere that’s just lunacy. This man is ridiculous. (Steve Nelson) One of the things that Manny Steward said was that all the chasing went on after the cameras, but Manny Steward wasn’t even in attendance that day. Lennox wasn’t the one saying it; it was Manny. Was the punch you hit Lennox with the best punch you have ever hit anyone with?
I would say it was the one that most counted! (Laughs) It doesn’t matter if I landed punches like that one coming up. They didn’t count for anything. I think I was in the biggest situation in front of me and I prepared well and answered the test. Did you get the feeling that Lennox didn’t respect your jab in the first fight?
The thing about it is that even though he’s aware of it this time, there’s nothing he can do to stop it. Could you describe this training camp as opposed to the camp for the first fight?
I’m using the same guys I used the last time, partly because they prepared me well and secondly because I can cross-reference with them where I was and what I was able to do in the first fight as opposed to this fight. It’s head and shoulders in the direction of the more things I can do and the easier I can handle him. I just feel like I’m getting better. The facilities that I had and everything that is available to me is better this time. Plus, I’m able to do all these things at altitude and the benefit of training at altitude this time is that I don’t have to fight in the altitude. I think that’s also an asset that has fallen heavily in my favor. (Steve Nelson) Everything we’ve heard from the other side is that they’re going to do things better than they did the first time around, which is kind of expected. But what they don’t anticipate is that everything we did the first time right, we’re doing better ourselves this time, so the end result is going to be the same, maybe a little quicker. You’ve said that losing to Maskaev was the turning point in your career and you are quite thankful to him for beating you. Would you explain that please?
He just really opened my eyes to really train hard and know that I just can’t look at an opponent and say oh, I can beat him, or I can’t beat him. It’s more than just looking at guys on paper and saying you can do this or that, you have to go out and train. You have to train hard like every fight is a world title fight. I believe that I started doing that after the Maskaev fight because there’s no way I believe that the man could beat me. When he beat me, he humiliated me and made me dig deep down. From then on, I said if I lose a fight I couldn’t be heavyweight champion of the world. There’s no use me even going through this. I don’t want to be anybody’s opponent, so from then on, I fought Marion Wilson and Corrie Sanders. Before the Sanders fight, I said that if I couldn’t beat Corrie Sanders, there was no use me even boxing. That would’ve shown me I can’t be champ and I meant it. I really got to thank Maskaev for changing my work rate and my mental state about boxing. Should Lewis be thanking you?
I don’t think Lewis under-trained as much as he said he did. Say he did spend two or three days on the set; I was sick for four days. I had bruised ribs going into the fight where I couldn’t spar some days. People made a big deal out of that. Another thing, Lennox is training for the guy that showed up in South Africa. I could beat that guy that showed up in South Africa right now! I’m past that, let him go and get ready for that guy in South Africa. Do you think he believes the things he’s been saying, or is it just what is being told to him?
I think it’s definitely being told to him. Everything he does is scripted. That’s why when you get him past whatever the initial conversation is; he’s lost. He’s not prepared for that. That’s why I like to take the conversation elsewhere. How has it been working with Don King?
I haven’t had any fights with him yet, so I can’t make any comment on what he shorted me, or took, or whatever. I don’t have any complaints thus far. I think he’s promoted better than I’ve been promoted thus far. There’s a significant difference in the turnout (at Don King fights) as opposed to what I’m used to my entire career. So far; so good. Is it frustrating for you to hear Lennox say his feet were tangled up, the count was short, he wasn’t out, etc.?
I would think it would be more frustrating for whoever is asking the question because I’m sure that they saw the fight. I think they’re not giving y’all credit for intelligence and not being able to see. I hit him with right hands all night long, so I felt like one would get through and do damage and that’s just what happened. The man counted ten. He counted ten. He counted ten, then came on television and said he counted ten. As far as I’m concerned the stories he’s telling are an outright lie. Does it bother you that Lewis called you an imbecile?
He respects me inside. I know he respects me inside. Whatever he leads on to the media, it’s really not important. What’s important is that I get that respect in the ring. He can refer to me whatever he likes outside the ring. That’s what he thinks, good for him. In that ring, you’re going to see me get my respect. The answer is yes, it’s important for me to get respect from him inside the ring. Other than that, he can do what he wants. In Part 2, Rahman continues to refuse to let Lennox Lewis’ pre-fight comments rattle him. He also talks about the end of his career and what he’ll end up doing.
 

Garbage

Juniors
Messages
30
with my limited exposure to either of these boxers, picking a winner can be done using the one and only tried and tested formulae.....lewis = pom = loser
 

El Duque

Bench
Messages
3,845
I thought the Rock was gunna be something good a few years back especially after he thoroghly outboxed Tua but was cheated and robbed by the Ref but then Tua has been been made to look ordinary against Wooden,Maskaev,Lewis and Byrd so that form doesn't look so good now.He looked pretty ordinary against Corrie Sanders and nearly lost and Lennox was pretty out of shape whn he got beat.Lewis should win this easy but he's gotta look out for that overhand right or he's in trouble.If Rahman comes out charginmg like Ruddock and Grant I ex;ect Lennox to stop him early.Otherwise I expect a boring UD or a stoppage from an LL uppercut as Rahm looks suseptible to these.
 

imported_Jackal

Juniors
Messages
225
I'd love to see the underdog Rahman win this bout, because he seems to be agenuine nice guy,but I honestly think that experience will play a huge role and prevail at the end of the day.

Hy head's telling me that Lewis will knock out an over enthusiastic Rahman, pretty early onin the bout. It could also prove to beone of the best Heavyweight Ttile fights in quite a few years. That's what I'm hoping for to justify to my girlfriend the money I'm paying for the pay-per-view.

On a related note, why is it that you have to ring up your cable service provider with your credit card details to order the fight? Seeings you're already a customer of theircable service, wouldn't it make more sense for them to bill you on your next payment of your service? I'm told that's how they do it overseas in the US. In fact, I hear that they can order the fight through their television screens menu function without even having to make a phone call. This country is so behind when it comes to certain matters. It's a joke!

Alright. I've taken a breath and calm down now.

 
O

ozbash

Guest
i thought lewis was going to retire ?
don king just keeps getting better........
Former world heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis looks set to sign a $257 million four-fight deal with promoter Don King, British newspapers reported on Tuesday. The British fighter is in the final stages of his preparations for a rematch with IBF and WBO champion Hasim Rahman in Las Vegas on November 17 and if he wins, he will consider signing the deal with King, the reports said. Lewis, who fired former promoter Panos Eliades shortly before he lost to Rahman in a fifth-round knockout in South Africa in April, parted company with former manager Frank Maloney last week. The 36-year-old has in the past refused to work with King, and had to take the 70-year-old promoter to court to force the Rahman rematch. However one last large pay-day, for a man who is thought to have earned $275 million over a 12-year career, may have changed his mind. "I know I said I'd never work with him but time changes things and sometimes you have to accept that someone is good at what they do," Lewis was quoted as saying in the Times on Tuesday. "I was surprised when Evander (Holyfield) started working with King. "But he does promote a good fight. Boxers at this stage of their career need someone to promote them well. King's history speaks for itself," he added. King now holds a virtual stranglehold over the heavyweight division. He tempted Rahman away from former promoter Cedric Kushner shortly after he won the title and scheduled a fight against Denmark's Brian Nielsen before Rahman was ordered to fight Lewis again. He also has WBA champion John Ruiz, who took the title off Holyfield, under contract. The pair are scheduled to fight again in Connecticut on December 15, after the event was moved from Beijing. If King manages to sign Lewis then he may see a heavyweight unification bout as the next logical step, particularly given the success of the series of fights he organised to unify the middleweight division, culminating in Bernard Hopkins defeating Felix Trinidad in September. However, the one truly huge pay day would be the heavyweight champion fighting former champion Mike Tyson. Tyson's handlers believe he is at least two fights away from a title shot, but the television network that hold Tyson's broadcast rights, Showtime, are keen to push that date forward, and preferably in a fight against Lewis. "I guess they're trying to save Tyson for a big pay day, that's what good promoters do," Lewis said in the Sun. "What qualifies Tyson is his name. He brings a lot of money and interest to the fight game and that's what the public want to see," he added. Source: nzoom.com
 

El Duque

Bench
Messages
3,845
Tyson said he would never fight under Don King again.

He's suing him for $100million so Don would have to pay him a massive amount for him to change his mind.
 
O

ozbash

Guest
what amazes me is that its almost pre determined.its as thoughits part of a script.
rahman flattened him, sat him on his arse like he didnt exist. (what i thought tua was capable of).
now the TAB has lewis at ridiculously short odds, we have the biggest name in boxing talking about restructuring the heaveyweight div to suit 2 beaten has beens.
i think you are right.
lewis to win,even if rahman beats him !!
 
O

ozbash

Guest
what do you think a lewis v tyson stoush would be worth (and there would have to be a rematch)?
1.5-2 billion ?? we would all want to see it ..
 
Messages
4,446
It would be a farce O-Bash. Boxing has almost got to the point of no return. The scandal and crap that surrounds the sport is truly amazing. Every big bout is always full of controversy and other innuendo, if i had to pick out 3 sports that i thought definitely had corruption in it, ill tell you know, Boxing would be there....
That said, controversy sells. I know i get sucked into most of the big matches, and i, like alot of other punters will be down at the club tomorrow watching it. Im just going to pick the guy at the best price. I know i said Lewis before, but i have seen him in the leadup interviews and he still looks terribly complacent and arrogant.....Who knows??
MFC.
 
Messages
341
Ozbash.

Does your figure include all pay-outs or just the fighters purses (silly question I know) ??

Either way mate, it's awefully high and no fight in our era will see those kind of figures. Not into the billions of $$$'s anyway.

I could be wrong though ... ???

 
V

Vertigo

Guest
I can't see any Boxing bout attracting those types of figures Ozbash (1.5 - 2 Billion). I fact, I don't know of any sporting match (single event - not including Soccer World Cup, Olympics etc:) that would attract those kinds of dollars. I'm with Broncosfan-baller on this one, when he says, no fight in our era will see those kind of figures.

Where - What made you come up with those figures OB? Interesting ... ???

Vertigo.

 
O

ozbash

Guest
the figure is off the top of my head. but since there were a couple of questions it made me think .
a billion isnt a lot of money today. (ok, $10 is a lot if you havent got it ), but in todays marketing and promo world, its not an unrealistic figure.
look at the americas cup, easily passes that mark because its marketed very efficiently.....
 

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