Raiders 3-2-1

[dubby]

R69, i live in QLD and couldn't make the game but I watched it twice on TV; on nine then FOX. TC played well, I agree. I just think there are alot of guys here that are too willing to heap praise on him when it really isn't justified. Is it because for so long we have waited for TC to stand up and show his ability?
He was among the best players on Sunday, don't get me wrong but he wasn't ahead of Mogg, SHif, Tongue, Smith, Weyman IMHO.

My point is I think there is too much expectation on the guy and too much pressure for a kid who is still growing into an acclomplished NRL player.

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

I am a bit mixed on the Carney thing. He certainly is not the organising player that we all had him hyped to be, but in so far as his role was to trail behind Smith and take the opportunities presented by him, he was excellent.

I think that Canberra have been looking for a Ricky Stuart type half since...well, Ricky Stuart, but that's not what Carney is, at least at this stage in his career.

That's fine in so far as I think he is a talented player in other areas, but it means that we need to have a 5/8 outside him (or, alternatively start him in the #6 jersey) who can guide the players around the field. My concern for 2007 is that I see us with a lot of talented young players such as Carney, Zillman and Dobson who can individually break the line, but I can't see anyone who will have the forwards moving around the paddock as they should.

For that reason, I would like to see Smith offered another 12 months. Although I don't think his individual game is where it should be at the moment, I think he combines well with Carney and offers organisation that we may otherwise lack at crucial times. I don't see this as by any means an ideal solution, but I don't know what other options we will have available to us next year.

 

[Raider_69]

I am a bit mixed on the Carney thing. He certainly is not the organising player that we all had him hyped to be, but in so far as his role was to trail behind Smith and take the opportunities presented by him, he was excellent.

I think that Canberra have been looking for a Ricky Stuart type half since...well, Ricky Stuart, but that's not what Carney is, at least at this stage in his career.

That's fine in so far as I think he is a talented player in other areas, but it means that we need to have a 5/8 outside him (or, alternatively start him in the #6 jersey) who can guide the players around the field. My concern for 2007 is that I see us with a lot of talented young players such as Carney, Zillman and Dobson who can individually break the line, but I can't see anyone who will have the forwards moving around the paddock as they should.

For that reason, I would like to see Smith offered another 12 months. Although I don't think his individual game is where it should be at the moment, I think he combines well with Carney and offers organisation that we may otherwise lack at crucial times. I don't see this as by any means an ideal solution, but I don't know what other options we will have available to us next year.

Put simply mate, your wrong, this is not opinion, its facts. And i dont blame you for this because i doubt you much if ANY premier league or ESL, but Carney is an extremely good organisational half and has shown it every time he is in PL, at the current situation its pretty clear he is still being instructed to let Smith run the show and as you say, work off smith, however that doesnt mean he isnt capible of it.

As for Dobson, from the ESL matches ive seen of him organisation is his biggest strength, he is a traditional half, good kicking game, good organisational skills and directs the team well... between the two of them we will be perfectly fine

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

Put simply mate, your wrong, this is not opinion, its facts.

Well, the Fox commentators and Phil Gould certainly disagree with you, but I am sure you know better.

 

[Raider_69]

yea id imagine i would know abit more about todd carney's organisational skills which he has exhibited in PL, then fox sports and gould who have probably like you, only seen him in FG where he is being instructed to let smith be the lead man, and id imagine the blokes who get to more games then me, would know abit more about it then i, but will tell you the same thing i have

just because to this point he hasnt displayed the skill in FG, doesnt equate to him no posessing that skill

 

[Tokyo_Raider]

Did you ever see Ricky Stuart in the late 80's / early 90's? My point was that Carney shows none of that kind of skill - whether he possesses it or not - at first grade. That was the comparison I used and I stand completely by it. Stuart used to have a line of bloody forward waiting for his passes. Carney, at least yet, just doesn't operate the same way or at the same level - even when Smith is off the field.

Don't get me wrong, I think Carney is a talented player and I believe that he should be the starting half. But no matter what he can or cannot acheive at PL level, I haven't seen much evidence of it in firsts and I believe that this opinion (and yes, it's opinion, not fact!) is shared by those I've seen commenting on the Raiders games.

Carney has a bright future, but not as the organiser that we need. And yes, that's just an opinion.

 

[Raider_69]

i revert back to my comment "just because he hasnt shown it in FG yet, doesnt mean he doesnt posess the skills"

he has no need to take on the organisational role at the current time, smith is doing that at the moment, as per instructions from elliott. Next season if organisational role is put on carney he will do a fine job of it, personally in a way i agree with you that though he can do, i think he is better suited to the 5/8th role, with Dobson using his superior (imo) organisational skills to guide the team

but the over all point is you are wrong in your intial post suggesting we have no organisational options for next season. We have two very good options

 

[dubby]

From what I've seen of TC when he was in for Smith (due to SMiths injury) is that he lacked confidence in directing the team.
TC looks more like a running half. IS that due to SMith being the direction man cos thats his strenght? Or cos Elliot realises that TC is a confidence player and at this stage Todd is enjoying his game as a runner and not a director? I love watching Todd run and use the ball. He is good at it. His footwork is great for a 6 or 7, and his kicking game is better than Smiths.
I have a feeling Linc may be 7 for a while yet...
I'm only making guesses here, only the players themselves know the truth.

 

[Bay56]

Did you ever see Ricky Stuart in the late 80's / early 90's? My point was that Carney shows none of that kind of skill - whether he possesses it or not - at first grade. That was the comparison I used and I stand completely by it. Stuart used to have a line of bloody forward waiting for his passes. Carney, at least yet, just doesn't operate the same way or at the same level - even when Smith is off the field.

Don't get me wrong, I think Carney is a talented player and I believe that he should be the starting half. But no matter what he can or cannot acheive at PL level, I haven't seen much evidence of it in firsts and I believe that this opinion (and yes, it's opinion, not fact!) is shared by those I've seen commenting on the Raiders games.

Carney has a bright future, but not as the organiser that we need. And yes, that's just an opinion.

Yea I did T_R and Carney comes the closest thing to him that we have ahd since ... great kicking game, can throw a pass as long as Stick used to ... his organisational skills will come next year when the likes of Elliott are sunning themselves on that Penrith beach.

 

[hrundi99]

Did you ever see Ricky Stuart in the late 80's / early 90's? My point was that Carney shows none of that kind of skill - whether he possesses it or not - at first grade. That was the comparison I used and I stand completely by it. Stuart used to have a line of bloody forward waiting for his passes. Carney, at least yet, just doesn't operate the same way or at the same level - even when Smith is off the field.

Don't get me wrong, I think Carney is a talented player and I believe that he should be the starting half. But no matter what he can or cannot acheive at PL level, I haven't seen much evidence of it in firsts and I believe that this opinion (and yes, it's opinion, not fact!) is shared by those I've seen commenting on the Raiders games.

Totally agree.

Carney has a bright future, but not as the organiser that we need. And yes, that's just an opinion.

Not sure about that. I am sure that if and when he doesn't play well next year that there will be those who will blame Elliot for it because of his development.

;-)

 

[dubby]

Totally agree.



Not sure about that. I am sure that if and when he doesn't play well next year that there will be those who will blame Elliot for it because of his development.

;-)

:lol:

Too true....Elliot will be the blame for many years to come...

 

[raiders fan forever]

yep ......................