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Ref and Bunker Decisions

Penrith fan

Juniors
Messages
586
Schneider made a deliberate play at Olam while he was in support. You can call it an ankle tap, a calf brush, a foot tickle, whatever, it was a professional foul that usually sees a player sin binned

I don’t think it’s being made bigger than it is. It was deliberate, it was during a try scoring situation and it was successful. That’s just a literal, straight down the line description of what happened, no hyperbole to make it sound worse than it was

It was a professional foul and professional fouls are normally sin binned.

It’s definitely not the worst thing we’ll see on a footy field, but I don’t think anyone is saying it is…
 

Penrith fan

Juniors
Messages
586
It doesn’t change the result . Penrith win, But Schneider goes to the bin every other time that’s ever happened.
The tackle ??? On the air was absolutely a penalty . Most times just a penalty , very occasionally a sin bin but usually much more contact is required .
That’s the difference, one is automatic in the bin, the other usually not.
Penrith win anyway so it’s not about the result.
 

Penrith fan

Juniors
Messages
586
It is nevertheless quite easy to explain. The Bunker still involves a series of subjective decisions, that have to be made quickly, even amid fair complaints about the length of time. This is one cost of the system, but also an almost unresolvable tension between wanting referees to be better and not wanting disruption. Basically, Rugby League can’t have accuracy, consistency, common sense and speed all at once because they are all contradictory.

This certainly isn’t the “consistency” that everyone seems to want.
 

kurt faulk

Coach
Messages
14,129
What about the flop on Clark Griswold in Canberra Brisbane game. Nothing. Flabbergasted

Was it Ricky? He took 4 steps before he flopped on him. I'm waiting for the whistle. Nothing. I lost my shit. My wife asks me why I care so much when I support neither team.

It's the most blatant flop I've ever seen and coming after the refs have been giving some harsh flop calls all season I just lost it.

.
 

kurt faulk

Coach
Messages
14,129
.

Penriff, teacher's pets of the nrl.

Can do no wrong. Must be hard to win when you can do whatever you want and not get penalised 99% of the time.

.
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,131
How is ignoring an obvious Sin Bin a square up for penalty though? It's a lopsided trade.

I assert that unconsciously the referee/bunker goes into a game with a preconceived idea of who the favourites and subconsciously makes the "least" controversial call when any tough decision are needed.
It’s not even unconscious bias. They literally have tip sheets about players. They examine video to find things that players habitually do, then look for them in the game.

Also. f**king lol at panthers supporters who don’t think they get a better than even shot on 50/50 calls. You don’t get to claim underdog or adversity once you’ve won 3 comps in a row.
 

simmo05

Bench
Messages
3,919
I do think the Bunker system has been worse this year compared to last. I can't put my finger on a specific reason but we appear to be entering territory, especially with the challenge system, where one person's interpretation can differ a lot from anothers for things like disruptors, strips and knock ons.

If we take the knock ons as an example, for 100 years we all knew what a knock on looked like, but now we have the technology to tell whether a ball went backwards (most of the time) or not, and as a result the definition of a knock on has become more literal.

My concern is that all this is starting to look like union, where they have butchered the flow of the game by constantly going back and looking for reasons not to give tries.
The flow of the game was butchered years ago when the video ref started. The extra 10 minutes of dithering per game by the video ref is the reason there are 80 minute props.
 

simmo05

Bench
Messages
3,919
I know this is yesterday's news but I challenge anyone to give me a worse Bunker decision in the history of the game. That was f**king pathetic. Guys get yellow cards for kinda but not really deliberately knocking the ball down, yet a guy who trips someone on purpose gets nothing? I'd think there was a case for a send-off - blatant, deliberate, and probably dangerous given Olam had no knowledge he'd be tackled and therefore couldn't brace for it.

Hope the Bunker referee is sacked, that was just insane. How you can get that so far wrong with so many looks, and you even send it back on field having said you saw the trip, I can't even get my head around.
2 years ago the debacle in the tigers v cows game was infinitely worse
 

Penrith fan

Juniors
Messages
586
With tries, the bunker should be limited to the matter referred to it, and not go back to the start of the play leading to the try. For example, if the referee is unsure of grounding, that should be the limit of the bunker’s involvement. Not offside, knock ons, or whatever leading up to the grounding question.

If there is only one person in the bunker, how do they have the capacity to go back and hand out sin bins and penalties for foul play if they’re trying to keep up with the game? The answer is that they can’t, as evidenced by the number of foul play incidents missed by both the referee and the bunker.

To sum up, I hate the bunker – get rid of it!
 
Messages
3,868
I love it when the opposition fans claim bias; shows how much better you are than the rest.

I also love the irony of that in a thread about how terrible the officials are, yet there are still some people here that think it is some big conspiracy in officialdom to promote the Panthers.

There are lots of unconscious biases in this world. It would surprise me if referees didn’t suffer from the halo effect from time to time (of course, that only makes the journey of Penrith from consistent cellar dwellers to juggernaut all the more impressive). I also see a lot of confirmation bias in lots of the posts on here; which is no surprise, we are all human.
 

Penrith fan

Juniors
Messages
586
Bunker blokes take the ‘might is right’ stance:

I think the problem is the broadcasters who continually play back ref decisions to look for or highlight a possible error. If we look hard enough, we could probably find a reason to disallow most tries.

57 eyes makes the bunker all powerful…power can corrupt so maybe it is meant to be blown up after all. Have you watched the grimacing faces of the on field referees throughout games? They will shake their heads and put a hand over their ears. They will put their heads to the side and frown and you know they are about to give a signal that the bunker bloke demands yet another stoppage, as he thinks he spots something not quite right out there on the pitch. Rewind, slow mo, fast forward, rewind, slow forward, again and then again and yep AGAIN, until a decision is made by Bunker bloke or a referee decision is overturned because super slow mo caught a maybe tiny something… that something isn’t always meaningful in relation to this NRL rule ‘book’…perhaps ‘hefty, unwieldy tome’ is a better description…just add a new chapter for every season and scribble out those rules which have been made redundant. Oh it’s a tricky dicky thing this bunker with its BB acting like the Wizard of Oz.

My love of the great game has me mourning the steady erosion of it.


If you look at the two incidents highlighted here, it would appear that the serial successful clubs get the rub of the green pretty often. I was shocked that Tedesco didn’t get binned or suspended for his blatant trip, it was not an accidental clip when wrong footed. Schneider’s ankle tap on a support player in the clear was similar, deserving of a sin bin. I’m a Penrith fan and admit it used to go our way against the strugglers, so it’s not bias against the Roosters or Storm or Broncos.

Refs have a subconscious bias in that top teams don’t need to cheat because they’re superior, not always so.



It doesn’t change the result . Penrith win, But Schneider goes to the bin every other time that’s ever happened.

The tackle ??? On the air was absolutely a penalty . Most times just a penalty , very occasionally a sin bin but usually much more contact is required .
That’s the difference , one is automatic in the bin , the other usually not.
Penrith win anyway so it’s not about the result.


What’s right with the game? It’s still resembling Rugby League.
What’s wrong with the game?

The bunker is pretty wrong.

Can the bunker get it right? Sometimes. Can the referee get it right? Sometimes.
Can the bunker and the referee work together to get it right? Sometimes.

The all-seeing bunker bloke has taken much of the power of adjudication from the on-field referee. The ref can’t even call a try without the bunker confirming it. Some tries come with multiple replays from the bunker. Some tries come with zero replays from the bunker and it is confirmed. In another game on a different day at a different stadium that confirmed try is called no try or visa versa. It’s becoming farcical. I won’t go into the ‘stop the game illegal tackle!’ – on report, sin bin/send off, charged, found guilty, fined/suspended, match review committee misses and hits and judiciary misses and hits. What’s good and right for one bloke from one team is not good and right for another bloke from another team Ex players on the judiciary seems wrong… ex players as referees and bunker officials seems a bit wrong too.

No …I give up. I’m waving the white flag. I surrender. I’m past believing in the NRL and it’s six again, bunker infested nest of vipers. Loved the game, love my team.

If we’ve got a game where momentum is so important that every micro decision has to be 100% correct or it has a huge impact on the result, then there’s other bigger problems than this.

ABC Grandstand radio is now my go to. I’m not putting on the box for the foreseeable future because personally I don’t like watching the game anymore. It’s become quite unbearable for me at times. After all this whining from me, sometimes a great game is still to be found amongst the rabble and confusion. I'd hate to miss that one great game but I’m in protest mode for a while. My editing is poor – apologies.
I can’t find my spectacles.

But you know, no matter how many times we go at it, we go round and round in a circle like a waltz from the jolly old days when boys would be sent off to war and come back without any legs.

We want extra officiating and then when it all goes wrong, we want freedom and no officiating at all.

It happened in the time of Covid, where we wanted some government instruction, instead what we got was lock downs and vaccine mandates.

Hang on, how did we get from some so-called smart people trying to help to a bunch of authoritarian clowns running the show? it's the bloody long way round on a finite road to destruction.

But its the same with VAR in Soccer. Anyone else see the Nottingham Forrest owner actually call the guy who was doing VAR in his game a cheat and accuse him of being a Luton Town plant. Luton Town and fighting Nottingham Forrest in the relegation battle in English Premier League.

Now it is all litigation and lawyers at 5 paces, but it shouldn't get to that.

We are actually trying to fix a problem, but we are CAUSING a bigger problem.

We’re also artificially taking momentum away from teams by stopping the game for a few minutes for a 50/50 or a props challenge or a strategic challenge…

If getting the correct decision on every play was the most important thing we’d stop after every tackle and have it reviewed to ensure there were no illegalities and the right team has the ball

But of course it’s not – it would be unwatchable – there’s a balance between that and letting the game naturally flow

Just as interesting facts. Which two teams have conceded the most penalties against them on average this season? West’s & Penrith.
Who hadn’t offered a single line break or line break assist, when Cleary has been out of the side this season? Jarome Luai .
With the first fact , if everyone was against them ,from most comments that a certain South’s supporter likes to put forward. You’d think that South’s were the most penalised team. 😁


My dear Grand Ma Ruth, who lived till 90 and who fell pregnant out of wed lock at the age of 16 in 1928 told me before I died, "Son, don't try and solve a problem by creating a bigger one!"

My Gran was Fit too.

And that is what the Bunker is NOW!

The game thrived without the bunker for 100 years. Teams copped incorrect decisions and got on with it. I’m not saying scrap it any more than you’re saying review everything, but I think these whole refs decide games is hugely overblown…


The only way to fix the Bunker is with a sledgehammer.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
100,210
Bunker blokes take the ‘might is right’ stance:

I think the problem is the broadcasters who continually play back ref decisions to look for or highlight a possible error. If we look hard enough, we could probably find a reason to disallow most tries.

57 eyes makes the bunker all powerful…power can corrupt so maybe it is meant to be blown up after all. Have you watched the grimacing faces of the on field referees throughout games? They will shake their heads and put a hand over their ears. They will put their heads to the side and frown and you know they are about to give a signal that the bunker bloke demands yet another stoppage, as he thinks he spots something not quite right out there on the pitch. Rewind, slow mo, fast forward, rewind, slow forward, again and then again and yep AGAIN, until a decision is made by Bunker bloke or a referee decision is overturned because super slow mo caught a maybe tiny something… that something isn’t always meaningful in relation to this NRL rule ‘book’…perhaps ‘hefty, unwieldy tome’ is a better description…just add a new chapter for every season and scribble out those rules which have been made redundant. Oh it’s a tricky dicky thing this bunker with its BB acting like the Wizard of Oz.

My love of the great game has me mourning the steady erosion of it.


If you look at the two incidents highlighted here, it would appear that the serial successful clubs get the rub of the green pretty often. I was shocked that Tedesco didn’t get binned or suspended for his blatant trip, it was not an accidental clip when wrong footed. Schneider’s ankle tap on a support player in the clear was similar, deserving of a sin bin. I’m a Penrith fan and admit it used to go our way against the strugglers, so it’s not bias against the Roosters or Storm or Broncos.

Refs have a subconscious bias in that top teams don’t need to cheat because they’re superior, not always so.



It doesn’t change the result . Penrith win, But Schneider goes to the bin every other time that’s ever happened.

The tackle ??? On the air was absolutely a penalty . Most times just a penalty , very occasionally a sin bin but usually much more contact is required .
That’s the difference , one is automatic in the bin , the other usually not.
Penrith win anyway so it’s not about the result.


What’s right with the game? It’s still resembling Rugby League.
What’s wrong with the game?

The bunker is pretty wrong.

Can the bunker get it right? Sometimes. Can the referee get it right? Sometimes.
Can the bunker and the referee work together to get it right? Sometimes.

The all-seeing bunker bloke has taken much of the power of adjudication from the on-field referee. The ref can’t even call a try without the bunker confirming it. Some tries come with multiple replays from the bunker. Some tries come with zero replays from the bunker and it is confirmed. In another game on a different day at a different stadium that confirmed try is called no try or visa versa. It’s becoming farcical. I won’t go into the ‘stop the game illegal tackle!’ – on report, sin bin/send off, charged, found guilty, fined/suspended, match review committee misses and hits and judiciary misses and hits. What’s good and right for one bloke from one team is not good and right for another bloke from another team Ex players on the judiciary seems wrong… ex players as referees and bunker officials seems a bit wrong too.

No …I give up. I’m waving the white flag. I surrender. I’m past believing in the NRL and it’s six again, bunker infested nest of vipers. Loved the game, love my team.

If we’ve got a game where momentum is so important that every micro decision has to be 100% correct or it has a huge impact on the result, then there’s other bigger problems than this.

ABC Grandstand radio is now my go to. I’m not putting on the box for the foreseeable future because personally I don’t like watching the game anymore. It’s become quite unbearable for me at times. After all this whining from me, sometimes a great game is still to be found amongst the rabble and confusion. I'd hate to miss that one great game but I’m in protest mode for a while. My editing is poor – apologies.
I can’t find my spectacles.

But you know, no matter how many times we go at it, we go round and round in a circle like a waltz from the jolly old days when boys would be sent off to war and come back without any legs.

We want extra officiating and then when it all goes wrong, we want freedom and no officiating at all.

It happened in the time of Covid, where we wanted some government instruction, instead what we got was lock downs and vaccine mandates.

Hang on, how did we get from some so-called smart people trying to help to a bunch of authoritarian clowns running the show? it's the bloody long way round on a finite road to destruction.

But its the same with VAR in Soccer. Anyone else see the Nottingham Forrest owner actually call the guy who was doing VAR in his game a cheat and accuse him of being a Luton Town plant. Luton Town and fighting Nottingham Forrest in the relegation battle in English Premier League.

Now it is all litigation and lawyers at 5 paces, but it shouldn't get to that.

We are actually trying to fix a problem, but we are CAUSING a bigger problem.

We’re also artificially taking momentum away from teams by stopping the game for a few minutes for a 50/50 or a props challenge or a strategic challenge…

If getting the correct decision on every play was the most important thing we’d stop after every tackle and have it reviewed to ensure there were no illegalities and the right team has the ball

But of course it’s not – it would be unwatchable – there’s a balance between that and letting the game naturally flow

Just as interesting facts. Which two teams have conceded the most penalties against them on average this season? West’s & Penrith.
Who hadn’t offered a single line break or line break assist, when Cleary has been out of the side this season? Jarome Luai .
With the first fact , if everyone was against them ,from most comments that a certain South’s supporter likes to put forward. You’d think that South’s were the most penalised team. 😁


My dear Grand Ma Ruth, who lived till 90 and who fell pregnant out of wed lock at the age of 16 in 1928 told me before I died, "Son, don't try and solve a problem by creating a bigger one!"

My Gran was Fit too.

And that is what the Bunker is NOW!

The game thrived without the bunker for 100 years. Teams copped incorrect decisions and got on with it. I’m not saying scrap it any more than you’re saying review everything, but I think these whole refs decide games is hugely overblown…


The only way to fix the Bunker is with a sledgehammer.

didnt read GIF
 

GongPanther

Referee
Messages
28,447
It’s not even unconscious bias. They literally have tip sheets about players. They examine video to find things that players habitually do, then look for them in the game.

Also. f**king lol at panthers supporters who don’t think they get a better than even shot on 50/50 calls. You don’t get to claim underdog or adversity once you’ve won 3 comps in a row.
You obviously have forgotten this year World Club Challenge and the absolute howlers from the ref and bunker in that game.

A fiddle of the highest order, to which I wouldn't wish on anyone's team.

Obviously what happened over there has continued to here going by the first 7 rounds. Probably because Penrith didn't do a Sticky or Robbo and call it out.

Anyway, spilt milk as they say.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,747
I'm just trying to keep it real

I acknowledge that my team commits atrocities just as much as any team

If you can pick apart your own team, then you clearly have no biases in anything.
Your team " Souths" are wallowing at the nottom of the ladder..... who cares
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,131
You obviously have forgotten this year World Club Challenge and the absolute howlers from the ref and bunker in that game.

A fiddle of the highest order, to which I wouldn't wish on anyone's team.

Obviously what happened over there has continued to here going by the first 7 rounds. Probably because Penrith didn't do a Sticky or Robbo and call it out.

Anyway, spilt milk as they say.
Such adversity
 

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