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Referees destroying our game

gong_eagle

First Grade
Messages
7,655
Referees destroying our game

By Ray Chesterton | August 22, 2008
http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/sport/nrl/story/0,26799,24222049-5016307,00.html

EVER noticed that referees awarding penalties throw their arm out with the same gusto as soldiers reaching back to throw grenades? It's appropriate. Penalties are blowing up premiership stability and introducing a referee-influenced unpredictiability.
Lopsided penalty counts create an unwanted source of speculation - and they are happening far too often.
The lucky dip approach of previous decades to referees' awarding penalties has been revisited upon us. And the game is the poorer.
Wests Tigers were the latest victims.
They were quickly down five-nil in the penalty count last week against Parramatta and never recovered.
Given the way the Tigers played, their ill-sense of discipline and their inability to control their tempers, there is a case to be made that they would have been soundly beaten anyway and that the early penalties only accelerated the inevitable.
Perhaps, but we will never know.
It is not the first time this season penalties have become lopsided and exerted an out-of-proportion influence on a match.
Sometimes teams rise above it.
Cronulla were down 10-1 in penalties a few weeks back but still went on to beat Souths 28-14.
Cronulla's resourcefulness still does not justify such an extraordinary penalty count.
Not does it excuse the dozen or so lopsided penalty counts that have occurred this season.
A couple of examples.
North Queensland won the penalties 11-2 against Melbourne in round seven - but still lost 12-10
The Warriors won the penalties 12-3 in round 11 but lost to the Roosters 38-12.
Parramatta got a 12-4 penalty count in losing to Penrith and there are a few 10-3 counts in the mix as well involving a variety of teams as well.
Penalty counts are becoming almost a laughing matter.
Are we really being asked to believe that at a time in the game's history when training - both physical and psychological - has never been more intense, coaches are unable to instil discipline in the ranks?
And the team performances in regard to penalties vary so much.
Cronulla were hammered in the penalties against Souths but in round 10 they enjoyed a 10-3 penalty count from Jared Maxwell at Shark Park while beating Brisbane 13-6.
Are teams really so lacking in control they they deserve to be penalised two or even three to one?
There is no real excuse for penalty counts being so erratic except the vagaries of referees.
Sure, teams will wander offside from time to time and commit other odd breaches.
That's part of the game.
But coaches inoculate players with a mantra of "not doing anything stupid" in games.
They are told to not talk back because it brings a secondary penalty and be especially careful not to give penalties when the oppositions' tackle count is four or five.
Overall penalty counts on average have not risen much in a decade.
It is the sequence to one team that is so destructive to the morale of the players. At times it looks like only one side is being refereed.
The modern game, so denuded of real competitiveness in so many areas, is vulnerable to penalty counts.
They are now the singular most potent force in the game.
Competing for the ball in scrums and in the play-the-ball has ended.
And it leaves referees with a lot of responsibility.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
152,180
they certainly have allowed the game to be slowed down by allowing the tacklers to lie on the tackled players, or hold them down till everyone is back onside

that's not a rule, its just a very poor interpritation of the rules
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,603
only the Sydney (or Brisbane) media would write an article on how crap refs are without mentioning the team constantly raped by them - the Knights.
 

JoeD

First Grade
Messages
7,056
Pay peanuts - get monkeys. I've probably said this 10 times here already. Pay the refs top dollar in order to attract quality people. Include the touchies. Its a farce that many are part time. At the moment only the insane and stupid would want to be an NRL ref.
 

suthotroy

Juniors
Messages
14
Let's face it, there are massive problems with the NRL's current crop of referees.

Many of the referees wouldn't be able to control a game of park football - and some of their performances have impacted on matches to such an extent that the quality of the matches has been inferior to park football.

To reverse the current slump in refereeing standards, it's necessary to make changes at the top. Get rid of Robert Finch and install a former referee as head of referees.

Having a former player and coach overseeing officiating doesn't make sense. The rules are being interpreted by referees as a player or coach would want them enforced.

If the referees enforced the rules in black and white, and not all the different shades of grey we're currently seeing, the game will get back on track.
 

Rohan

Juniors
Messages
204
How does Robert Finch still have a job?

The standard has deteriorated under his watch from day 1.
 

Fatdog

Juniors
Messages
173
A bloke i know is member of the NRL referess squad. I've seen him referee many games where he has actualy had both coaches congratulate him on a good game yet still be dropped the next week because the referee coach has evaluated that his 10m was more like 11 or 12m. Its an absolute joke.

Take last weeks game with Cowboys and Titans for example. in the 77th minute Ty Williams (i think) went in for a try in the corner that could have sent game into golden point. the touchie made a call and put his flag up. The ref however realised the importance and sent decison to the video ref. The video ref agreed with the touchies decision and no try awarded. the ref used his common sense just to check.
now because he made the choice to go to the video ref I bet you wont see him in first grade this week.
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
LOL. Chesterton. As relevent as a crossbow in a nuclear war.

Doesn't explain a morons like Jason Ryles who always give away penalties. If Eric Grothe can't understand the concept of defence, what basis is there to expect teams full of morons aka Gallen, Brett White, Justin Hodges, Ross from Cronulla to be perfect?

Sometimes clubs get penalised because they do things wrong. A ref can only call it as he sees it. It's a ref's job to police the rules of the game, not to hand out equal amounts of penalties.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,210
Here's the percentage of penalties each team wins:

1. Eels 57.9% (158 for, 115 against)
2. Souths 55.7% (142 for, 113 against)
3. Sharks 55.4% (159 for, 128 against)
4. Raiders 53.5% (151 for, 131 against)
5. Broncos 52.3% (137 for, 125 against)
6. Cowboys 52.2% (155 for, 142 against)
7. Warriors 51.3% (137 for, 130 against)
8. Dragons 50.5% (138 for, 135 against)
9. Bulldogs 50.4% (134 for, 132 against)
10. Tigers 49.6% (129 for, 131 against)
11. Manly 48.7% (151 for, 159 against)
12. Titans 46.2% (133 for, 155 against)
13. Panthers 45.8% (121 for, 143 against)
14. Storm 45.5% (127 for, 152 against)
15. Roosters 44% (117 for, 149 against)
16. Knights 42% (113 for, 156 against)

The most ridiculous part of these statistics is the penalties awarded to each team. These statistics suggest that teams play cleaner football when they play the Knights, Roosters and Panthers. then they do when they play the Eels, Sharks and Raiders.

I can understand some teams having higher penalties against them, but after 21 games of football, the penalties awarded to each team should be pretty close. The Sharks have received 159 penalties, while the Knights have only received 113 penalties... that's just ridiculous.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
67,850
The refs impliment the edict handed down by the NRl and, by virtue of the process, the clubs. Refs haven't decided to allow laying on, the edict to allow more "discretion" at the play of the balls is what has caused it. Stop playing the blame game and realise the refs are just a product of the system.

ps have a go at reffing then come back and have a go. I tried it once and it was a damn site harder than any game I've played in!

ps when did refs become coaches? I prefer the old days when the only time refs spoke was to tick someone off or explain a decision. Stop the on field coaching! If players don't know how to pack a scrum or make a tackle by the time they've made 1st grade they shouldn't be there!
 
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scuzzi

Juniors
Messages
315
ps when did refs become coaches? I prefer the old days when the only time refs spoke was to tick someone off or explain a decision. Stop the on field coaching! If players don't know how to pack a scrum or make a tackle by the time they've made 1st grade they shouldn't be there!

agree 100%. Watching a referee coach a scrum is disgraceful. Just blow a penalty. When a team takes forever to take a line dropout, blow a penalty!
 

Hanscholo

Bench
Messages
4,818
Over coaching of referees

Analyzing Clubs

Putting rules into the game like dominant tackles.

Then you have the video guys that seem to be watching a different game.

Finch needs to go, and we need to get a common sense person in there, not someone that just happened to still have a news ltd contract and needed a job...yes we know how you got it finch.
 

Cockadoodledoo

First Grade
Messages
5,045
Here's the percentage of penalties each team wins:

1. Eels 57.9% (158 for, 115 against)
2. Souths 55.7% (142 for, 113 against)
3. Sharks 55.4% (159 for, 128 against)
4. Raiders 53.5% (151 for, 131 against)
5. Broncos 52.3% (137 for, 125 against)
6. Cowboys 52.2% (155 for, 142 against)
7. Warriors 51.3% (137 for, 130 against)
8. Dragons 50.5% (138 for, 135 against)
9. Bulldogs 50.4% (134 for, 132 against)
10. Tigers 49.6% (129 for, 131 against)
11. Manly 48.7% (151 for, 159 against)
12. Titans 46.2% (133 for, 155 against)
13. Panthers 45.8% (121 for, 143 against)
14. Storm 45.5% (127 for, 152 against)
15. Roosters 44% (117 for, 149 against)
16. Knights 42% (113 for, 156 against)

The most ridiculous part of these statistics is the penalties awarded to each team. These statistics suggest that teams play cleaner football when they play the Eels, Sharks and Raiders then they do when they play the Knights, Roosters and Panthers.

The opposite actually.. i would like to see the Roosters stats under Maxwell, Hampstead and Cummins.. I am pretty sure it was 15 penalties for and 31 against with Maxwell for this season.
 

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
27,806
i thought manly were the most penalised team in the comp

if you read the number before "against" they are; just beating the Knights by 3.

1. Eels 57.9% (158 for, 115 against)
16. Knights 42% (113 for, 156 against)

Coincidence? :sarcasm:

Haha, anyway, it's bit saddening to see the difference in penalties for as a Knights supporter. I mean I am sure a lot of the penalties against are justified, but it seems teams can get away with anything when they come up against us :crazy:
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,210
The opposite actually.. i would like to see the Roosters stats under Maxwell, Hampstead and Cummins.. I am pretty sure it was 15 penalties for and 31 against with Maxwell for this season.
:lol:

Good catch. Fixed that up. Roosters haven't been doing well in the penalty count lately.
 

Stranger

Coach
Messages
18,682
Haha, anyway, it's bit saddening to see the difference in penalties for as a Knights supporter. I mean I am sure a lot of the penalties against are justified, but it seems teams can get away with anything when they come up against us :crazy:

Thats the part that has me stumped.

I mean if we are offside all day we deserve top cop 10 penalties against us... but its the penalties that we aren't getting that is hurting us. :(
 

thug jimmy

Juniors
Messages
114
it's the momentum penatlies that are killing the game.

chechin was pretty obvious the other night in the parra v tigers match. probably harder to spot for some given how crap the tigers played.
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Here's the percentage of penalties each team wins:

1. Eels 57.9% (158 for, 115 against)
2. Souths 55.7% (142 for, 113 against)
3. Sharks 55.4% (159 for, 128 against)
4. Raiders 53.5% (151 for, 131 against)
5. Broncos 52.3% (137 for, 125 against)
6. Cowboys 52.2% (155 for, 142 against)
7. Warriors 51.3% (137 for, 130 against)
8. Dragons 50.5% (138 for, 135 against)
9. Bulldogs 50.4% (134 for, 132 against)
10. Tigers 49.6% (129 for, 131 against)
11. Manly 48.7% (151 for, 159 against)
12. Titans 46.2% (133 for, 155 against)
13. Panthers 45.8% (121 for, 143 against)
14. Storm 45.5% (127 for, 152 against)
15. Roosters 44% (117 for, 149 against)
16. Knights 42% (113 for, 156 against)

The most ridiculous part of these statistics is the penalties awarded to each team. These statistics suggest that teams play cleaner football when they play the Knights, Roosters and Panthers. then they do when they play the Eels, Sharks and Raiders.

I can understand some teams having higher penalties against them, but after 21 games of football, the penalties awarded to each team should be pretty close. The Sharks have received 159 penalties, while the Knights have only received 113 penalties... that's just ridiculous.

Why?
 
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