Replacing Packer...

[coast_dragons]

Packer needs to lift his game even though he is going,just as a repayment for our efforts in getting his life back on track.

He certainly does he has been ordinary mind you he's not the only one.

Host's performance last week aswell as Sele would certainly be pleasing both played rather well.

With no De Belin and probably no Frizzell the forwards will certainly have to step up.

 

[Old Timer]

The way Packer has played lately he is either injured or he has lost interest because he has been crap.

Its a shame Masoe wasn't able to come back to at least a first grade standard player hell he can barely make Illawarra's bench and has been out played by Lawrie, Kerr and Hind.

Masoe was always going to be a crap deal and should never have been done.
Packer had big surgery in the off season and what do we come up with "a forward power game for 11 rounds straight" combined with a piss poor bench selection and rotation so no wonder Packer is feeling the pinch and no doubt he is carrying injuries.
No way he would be turning off through lack of interest as he is not that sort of character plus their are rep honours to be had for NZ later in the year.

 

[Ace-STi]

We need the butcher back

 

[MilanDragon]

I did not realise that his agent had done so , the fact that he knew about a Woods moving on during the off-season and undoubtedly Packer would had taken the larger offer in that case .
I think it's just that I am still somewhat disappointed with his move and yes I agree that the money that the Tigers offered was overs in his case . Hopefully Millward will sign a suitable replacement , however I believe that he may need to look overseas for the prop , wether that be New Zealand or in the ESLeague .

Sorry I hope I didn't give off the impression that his agent new for fact, that's my pure speculation.

But that's probably even more to my point, if we all knew the tigers big 4 were off contract and there were rumours very early in the piece they wouldn't re-sign then of course the player agents know this.

I think sometimes its naive of all of us just to blame the club and forget there are player agents who know a whole bunch more than any one on this forum because that's what they do for a living and they get paid to know. So it's in their best interests at times to advise players to wait until signing anything. Especially this season where the salary cap speculation was saying it could go up to 10mil (which now it's not).

 

[Cazbah Steeler]

I would take Blair, Paasi, Boyle, NAS and Ofahengaue over Tagatese.

Is there any more rumours about Adam Blair ?

He is the only Prop I would sign other than Nelson Asofa-Solomona

 

[dragonssamy61]

Had to have a bit of a laugh when Millward said that the club will not be rushed into finding big Russ's replacement . For pity sake that is how we lost him , if they had made the man a decent offer during the off-season we wouldn't need to find ourselves another prop .

It seems that the Dragons wait until the last possible moment in making a concrete
offer to players that they are interested in , by which time they are about to sign with another team . Perhaps all chairs should be removed from Millwards office during all recruitment until the prospective player has had an offer placed before him .

Gareth
Millward is looking to save money he trying to get then cheap.
He tryiny to get another bargain buy .
But it the end we will have to pay market value.

 

[possm]

I did not realise that his agent had done so , the fact that he knew about a Woods moving on during the off-season and undoubtedly Packer would had taken the larger offer in that case .
I think it's just that I am still somewhat disappointed with his move and yes I agree that the money that the Tigers offered was overs in his case . Hopefully Millward will sign a suitable replacement , however I believe that he may need to look overseas for the prop , wether that be New Zealand or in the ESLeague .

I don't buy the advanced notice of Woods moving on bit however, if so why didn't Packer show a little honesty and give Millward the heads up. Millward could have found an alternative much sooner and avoid the despair most fans are feeling right now.

I remember as late as March Packer was saying he wanted to stay and Millward was saying the Dragons wanted him to stay so the narrative of him already on the move to the Tigers just does not sit easily with me. To me it is more a story made up in an effort to support Millward. I'm sure Millward is aware of the mess he has created but just like Mary after each loss when the reasons are so apparent to everyone else, there is no manning up or contrition, just an arrogance reflective of the confidence that no accountability is required.

 

[possm]

Gareth
Millward is looking to save money he trying to get then cheap.
He tryiny to get another bargain buy .
But it the end we will have to pay market value.

The reason maybe that he payed the asking price for all the upgrades to our first grade squad and then found himself short. Letting Dugan and Packer go helps with this situation but replacing them makes it more difficult.
A real Millward mess.

 

[MilanDragon]

I don't buy the advanced notice of Woods moving on bit however, if so why didn't Packer show a little honesty and give Millward the heads up. Millward could have found an alternative much sooner and avoid the despair most fans are feeling right now.

I remember as late as March Packer was saying he wanted to stay and Millward was saying the Dragons wanted him to stay so the narrative of him already on the move to the Tigers just does not sit easily with me. To me it is more a story made up in an effort to support Millward. I'm sure Millward is aware of the mess he has created but just like Mary after each loss when the reasons are so apparent to everyone else, there is no manning up or contrition, just an arrogance reflective of the confidence that no accountability is required.

Why would Packer be honest about that when there was nothing in concrete? It's like me telling my boss right before performance review time I've applied for a job with s competitor but I haven't had an interview yet - just plain stupid.

I'm not saying it was the actual scenario of exactly how it played out but trying to point to the reality player agents have a big role to play in this too. And Packer might've (ultimately correctly) been advised to wait, that's my point. Packers agent did a fantastic job for him, he'd have to be close to the highest paid prop in the game but personally I don't think he is the best prop at our club, let alone the NRL.

It's not about supporting Millward but actually being realistic. But every one of your posts seems to be about bagging Millward so you're even less objective than me

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Why would Packer be honest about that when there was nothing in concrete? It's like me telling my boss right before performance review time I've applied for a job with s competitor but I haven't had an interview yet - just plain stupid.

I'm not saying it was the actual scenario of exactly how it played out but trying to point to the reality player agents have a big role to play in this too. And Packer might've (ultimately correctly) been advised to wait, that's my point. Packers agent did a fantastic job for him, he'd have to be close to the highest paid prop in the game but personally I don't think he is the best prop at our club, let alone the NRL.

It's not about supporting Millward but actually being realistic. But every one of your posts seems to be about bagging Millward so you're even less objective than me

Your right. There's no way the Dragons could have matched the Tigers offer, nor should they have in my opinion.

Promote a young prop, or find a cheap alternative in someone's lower grades, worked well with Vaughan.

As for Blair? Are we talking the Storm Blair, the Broncos Blair, or the West Tigers Blair, because you could never be quite sure which one your getting.

 

[possm]

Why would Packer be honest about that when there was nothing in concrete? It's like me telling my boss right before performance review time I've applied for a job with s competitor but I haven't had an interview yet - just plain stupid.

I'm not saying it was the actual scenario of exactly how it played out but trying to point to the reality player agents have a big role to play in this too. And Packer might've (ultimately correctly) been advised to wait, that's my point. Packers agent did a fantastic job for him, he'd have to be close to the highest paid prop in the game but personally I don't think he is the best prop at our club, let alone the NRL.

It's not about supporting Millward but actually being realistic. But every one of your posts seems to be about bagging Millward so you're even less objective than me

I made it known to all my staff that I had no problems with people moving on however, come and see me first - my door is always open - to discuss things because on most occasions things can be resolved and when they cannot, my firm could find a replacement in a timely way.

I still think the possibility of advance notice of Woods moving on is a stretch. Taylor was still the coach and there was no hint that the Dogs were chasing Woods. I mean we are talking a time period of Nov 16 to Apr 17.

in my opinion Millward over spent on juniors and upgrades and had to cut Packer and/or Dugan to balance the books. My suggestion has always been that Dugan and Packer should have been signed around the same time as Hunt and Millward could have then progress through the upgrades and juniors. In this way we might have been looking at losing fringe first graders and possibly a couple of juniors and not having to recruit first grade players at a time when they are in demand and most expensive.

 

[MilanDragon]

I made it known to all my staff that I had no problems with people moving on however, come and see me first - my door is always open - to discuss things because on most occasions things can be resolved and when they cannot, my firm could find a replacement in a timely way.

I still think the possibility of advance notice of Woods moving on is a stretch. Taylor was still the coach and there was no hint that the Dogs were chasing Woods. I mean we are talking a time period of Nov 16 to Apr 17.

in my opinion Millward over spent on juniors and upgrades and had to cut Packer and Dugan to balance things up. My suggestion has always been that Dugan and Packer should have been signed around the same time as Hunt and Millward then progress through the upgrades and juniors. In this way we might have been looking at losing fringe first graders and possibly a couple of juniors and not having to recruit first grade players who are in demand.

I say the same to my team, come to me first or if they want the next step in their career we plan for it and develop them. But the NRL is different in that sense where you don't develop them to go to your direct rival. I'm not saying they knew exactly how it would play out, but the writing has been on the wall at the tigers for a long time about issues. The agent would have known more than us, but the fact woods was off contract and they hadn't been discussing his renewal with any success would've meant Packers agent could've easily said just hold off signing until they know more.

I'm okay overall with your thought process of working top-down but the risk you run is either not having enough in the kitty for your lower end/juniors. Or potentially if the big stars drag on like they had the juniors go elsewhere, imagine what you'd be saying if we had lost all those juniors because we didn't offer a contract as we were waiting on Dugan/Packer/Widdop, then Mann and Lafai etc etc.

Getting the juniors locked up is vital and good business because to me they are on minimum salary or very little above that. So if you sign them up on minimum -excellent! and you're not using up extra cap space because that space has to be used anyway on someone else - that's when you end up chasing fringe first graders and journey men who will play on minimum salary which is what happened under the previous recruitment person - Mullohand I think it was

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

I think you might need to learn about the salary cap, possm. You don't make space by letting a few fringe players go. They need to be replaced by other fringe players or juniors, who also have to be paid at least minimum towards the cap. Unless of course the fringe players you let go were on several hundred thousand dollars contracts. Not likely.

 

[possm]

I say the same to my team, come to me first or if they want the next step in their career we plan for it and develop them. But the NRL is different in that sense where you don't develop them to go to your direct rival. I'm not saying they knew exactly how it would play out, but the writing has been on the wall at the tigers for a long time about issues. The agent would have known more than us, but the fact woods was off contract and they hadn't been discussing his renewal with any success would've meant Packers agent could've easily said just hold off signing until they know more.

I'm okay overall with your thought process of working top-down but the risk you run is either not having enough in the kitty for your lower end/juniors. Or potentially if the big stars drag on like they had the juniors go elsewhere, imagine what you'd be saying if we had lost all those juniors because we didn't offer a contract as we were waiting on Dugan/Packer/Widdop, then Mann and Lafai etc etc.

Getting the juniors locked up is vital and good business because to me they are on minimum salary or very little above that. So if you sign them up on minimum -excellent! and you're not using up extra cap space because that space has to be used anyway on someone else - that's when you end up chasing fringe first graders and journey men who will play on minimum salary which is what happened under the previous recruitment person - Mullohand I think it was

It's clear you know your stuff and I'm sure you would not sit around waiting for your senior staff to let you know if they are staying or not without putting something in place just in case they decide to leave. In the same way a deadline should have been set with both Dugan and Packer and at the same time talks with alternative recruits should have been started. At the same time, you should have a list of priorities and so go down that list keeping space for Dugan and Packer until after the deadline arrives.

You just can't have player managers dictating terms with regards to sign on dates. A more experienced and professional recruitment officer would move on rather than have an outside agent dictate a timetable with an unknown result.
It is a mess, a Millward mess.

 

[The calm one]

We need the butcher back

No we dont

 

[Gareth67]

Whatever the case may had been , we will be down a prop that gives the Dragons a bit of respect against other packs .

By that I am not suggesting that Russ is the main metre eater in the team as without doubt that prize belongs to Vaughan , but as said the club does need another tough as teak prop to fill Packer's role .

Even if it is only for 2 years , somebody whom will not take a backward step and also can pass his experience on to the younger brigade . Hopefully Kerr and the other young forwards would learn from such a player and perhaps even give them a speedier entry to the top grade .

 

[The Damo]

All good, but keep in mind that most of our forwards were retained prior to the time that Cleary took over as head coach of the Tigers and Wood announcing he is going to the Dogs.

The simple thing is that Millward could have signed Packer during the period Nov 2016 - Apr 2017 for 450k - 550k x 3 years. It was only when Woods announced his move to the Dogs that Packer became a target of the Tigers.
Millward Mess, a real big mess.

You're entitled to your opinion Possm, and to repeat it endlessly, but at least acknowledge That you assume Packer is essentially an idiot. You don't know that he would've signed. And He'd have been an idiot to sign anything then before the rep season.
And the assertion we should've then signed someone else if he didn't sign straight away sounds like a great way to lose players.

 

[The Damo]

Masoe was always going to be a crap deal and should never have been done.
Packer had big surgery in the off season and what do we come up with "a forward power game for 11 rounds straight" combined with a piss poor bench selection and rotation so no wonder Packer is feeling the pinch and no doubt he is carrying injuries.
No way he would be turning off through lack of interest as he is not that sort of character plus their are rep honours to be had for NZ later in the year.

Hey OT, can you specify exactly what it is about how we've played Packer that would've done him in? And how it's different to what other starting props do? Just saying 'power game' doesn't mean anything. The amount of hit ups we've made him do? The minutes?
I think he's been great this year minus the last two weeks, and he prob is carrying injuries (like most players by this part of the year) but I just don't get this argument. His amount of runs and minutes are solidly middle of the pack so what exactly is unreasonable about how he's been played?

 

[Old Timer]

Hey OT, can you specify exactly what it is about how we've played Packer that would've done him in? And how it's different to what other starting props do? Just saying 'power game' doesn't mean anything. The amount of hit ups we've made him do? The minutes?
I think he's been great this year minus the last two weeks, and he prob is carrying injuries (like most players by this part of the year) but I just don't get this argument. His amount of runs and minutes are solidly middle of the pack so what exactly is unreasonable about how he's been played?

Simple
Our whole attack is about forward domination and that is required for far longer in a game than if you have rampant backs that can score from anywhere.
Our forwards never get a rest they have to be in the thick of it almost every play and are required to make the yardage because neither our kicking game or our backs can do that.
So Packer who has made major surgery and is required to lead by example in our style of play was always going to get busted.
All our starting forwards are showing signs of fatigue and injury exacerbated by our 1 dimensional attack. and it was always going to end up this way.
We needed plan B & C to give these blokes some respite but the results in the last few weeks show we have no plan B or C and plan A will not work now because we are playing with busted forwards.
Smart sides have great kicking options to make easy yardage for the big boys and we don't.
Packer maybe required shorter periods and 1 more interchange but we choose to have a back on the bench and give them 7-10 minutes at the end which IMO is just dumb and a waist of an interchange.

 

[possm]

You're entitled to your opinion Possm, and to repeat it endlessly, but at least acknowledge That you assume Packer is essentially an idiot. You don't know that he would've signed. And He'd have been an idiot to sign anything then before the rep season.
And the assertion we should've then signed someone else if he didn't sign straight away sounds like a great way to lose players.

History will show we lost to top players Millward's way. But I imagine there could be a slight chance you are right about Packer's agent having inside knowledge. If I had to choose which argument and put my house on it, for sure I would bet it all on my version.

Just for a moment imagine you are right. So Millward had no such information and everyone but Packer's manager was unwise to this news. And with all of this, Packer and Millward both came out and said publically Packer wants to stay and the Club wants him to stay. If as you assert Packer new about this possible deal with the Tigers, the Packer lied to Millward, the Dragons Club and all of the Dragons fans.

No as far as I can see, it was just miss-management from Millward, he was played and now he looks the fool.
It's a mess.