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Richo's Blueprint for a State Cup

Jeffles

Bench
Messages
3,412
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/10/1092102452138.html?oneclick=true

And last night all 15 club bosses were being emailed a proposal from South Sydney's Shane Richardson aimed at remodelling the game in NSW.

Under the proposal, NRL clubs would halve the number of players on their books by forming mergers with existing lower-tier clubs such as the joint venture recently formed between Cronulla and Newtown.

Each NRL team would have 25 senior players, five under-20s and five nominated over-20s players, with those not required each weekend playing for a feeder team responsible for its own recruitment.

Areas such as the Central Coast, Riverina and Western Division would compete in a 10-14 team league over 22 weeks, with ABC televising the match of the day as it does in Queensland, and other games acting as NRL curtain-raisers.

The money saved by senior clubs would facilitate a shorter, 22-round NRL season "improving the quality of fixtures and reducing the fatigue factor on elite players". Importantly, the document assumes no expansion in 2006, with Manly's feeder team listed hypothetically as North Sydney, who are aligned with the Central Coast bid.

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This would be the death knell of Premier League and any hopes of a true old fashioned NSWRL premiership. The article also draws out some themes about some flaws with the current administration.

Areas such as the Central Coast, Riverina and Western Division would compete in a 10-14 team league over 22 weeks

What a pipe dream. As if the bush can afford to run teams in this second tier competition. They would not have a spare $500K that it would cost. Also, with the exception of the Central Coast, the travelling costs for players to go to and from Sydney would be a huge turn off to NRL clubs. Imagine transporting Wagga Wagga and Dubbo to the NRL ground for the curtain raiser in Sydney. As if clubs would look to the bush. They wouldn't look past their own backyard.

with ABC televising the match of the day as it does in Queensland,

Why isn't ABC already televising PL? With the big name clubs currently in PL, TV exposure now would be more valuable than in the future when Richo's comp is made up of Wentworthville v Ryde-Eastwood - two clubs whose entire fan base could fit in a VW. The QLD Cup at least features traditional clubs. Hence people have an interest.

The money saved by senior clubs would facilitate a shorter, 22-round NRL season "improving the quality of fixtures and reducing the fatigue factor on elite players".

As if they'd keep a longer PL season if the NRL went shorter anyway. I doubt that this new structure would help the "improving the quality of fixtures and reducing the fatigue factor on elite players" anymore than the current PL would. The structure has nothing to do with the grading. It is to do with the clubs and the League.

The NSWRL have already made a mess of PL. In an era where fans are disenfranchised and long for a bit of nostalgia, the NSWRL has fumbled the golden opportunity it had to make PL the competition for such fans. Don't tell me that fans don't want to see these clashes. 19,000 people at Leichhardt Oval for "traditonal footy". An article in Friday's Telegraph about the success of retro jersies. There is a market to tap out there. In the UK, the National League one averages crowds of around 1200. Even clubs without a hope in hell of promotion get crowds because they have been playing their game for their team for generations. People like to see these clashes.

But clubs would rather save money they have now than take a chance to earn money in the future. And the League is happy. They want to fcilitate the rise of the "pokie clubs" the teams with a million times more money than they have fans.[/quote]
 

Big Bunny

Juniors
Messages
1,801
National One doesn't average 1200 except for maybe the top 2 clubs.

I quite like Richo's idea, but I do see the flaws in it, but again I'm looking at it from a different angle, as I'm not all that fussed about PL in its current setup. For me it should be a showcase for the likes of Newtown and St.Mary's whilst being a place for clubs and regions that are a long way off from supporting their own NRL sides. With television I don't see why regional clubs can't be a success in an expanded competition. Knowing the sort of passion that exists for the game in the Riverina, Northern Rivers and Central West, I think that those 2 areas at least could more than cover their corporate arses and draw crowds to their games that would put the Sydney PL clubs to shame.

Btw, I was at that Souths-Tigers game and I was drawn in by the tribal element of the day but that doesn't translate to PL anywhere near what one might like. With tv coverage that will rise, but not a hell of a lot.
 

Jeffles

Bench
Messages
3,412
National One doesn't average 1200 except for maybe the top 2 clubs.

We were both wrong. This year's average is 1422. On only one week has the average for the round dipped below 1200.

I quite like Richo's idea, but I do see the flaws in it, but again I'm looking at it from a different angle, as I'm not all that fussed about PL in its current setup.

I guess that is where we differ. I love the idea of being able to see the clubs and the clashes that I grew up with at the grounds that I grew up with. And I know I am not alone and I know there are many of us.

For me it should be a showcase for the likes of Newtown and St.Mary's whilst being a place for clubs and regions that are a long way off from supporting their own NRL sides

And that is what is being mooted. But the Jim Beam Cup can cater for the bigger clubs and it has.

With television I don't see why regional clubs can't be a success in an expanded competition. Knowing the sort of passion that exists for the game in the Riverina, Northern Rivers and Central West, I think that those 2 areas at least could more than cover their corporate arses and draw crowds to their games that would put the Sydney PL clubs to shame

I disagree. Unfortunately there just isn't money in the bush. Clubs aren't surviving now on with small operations. They would be out of their depth in PL.

Btw, I was at that Souths-Tigers game and I was drawn in by the tribal element of the day but that doesn't translate to PL anywhere near what one might like. With tv coverage that will rise, but not a hell of a lot.

I hope you don't think I was suggesting that 19,000 would be a possibility in PL. What I was saying is that these fixtures constantly draw more people than fixtures between say Wests Tigers and Melbourne Storm. From this, I deduce that there is an element of fans that go to these games because of their attraction to the fixtures. PL has the possibility (in its current state) to deliver what these few thousand fans want every week, if it was given a fair run by the League getting broadcasting rights.

This will not be the case if the proposed State Cup gets a run. A lot of those big clubs have shown for years that they cannot get a decent following. Sure there will be money saved (and that is why I feel like I am fighting a battle I cannot win) but is this really the type of competition we want for NSW - a battle of hollow clubs for a single carload of fans.

If this does get a run, I can see Newtown, Balmain, Norths (assuming the CC doesn't get a run) and Wests remaining on their lonesome. And if that is the case then it will be the profile of these clubs that will carry that competition in terms of credibility. But so much for the other 10 clubs that are there.
 

joshreading

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
1,720
I think such a propostition might be FANTASTIC for out of Sydney areas. Think Coffs could host a team, Wagga, Dubbo maybe. The bush areas struggle to keep their players and it would be another incentive to atleast keep them close by.

In places like Wagga and Coffs it would ultimately help in getting over AFL and Union.
 

Big Bunny

Juniors
Messages
1,801
Jeffles said:
We were both wrong. This year's average is 1422. On only one week has the average for the round dipped below 1200.

Yes I was wrong, crowds aren’t as poor in the lower half of the league as I had thought.

I guess that is where we differ. I love the idea of being able to see the clubs and the clashes that I grew up with at the grounds that I grew up with. And I know I am not alone and I know there are many of us.

Not quite. I enjoy watching the stand alone clubs and those that continue with their old identities at that level, but I’d prefer to see clubs like Newtown, Balmain and St.Mary’s be the focus of the league rather than what are more easily identifiable as reserve teams from the Roosters, Souths, Manly etc. Souths would be better served with having Souths Juniors as their feeder in the PL, following Cronulla’s partnership with the Jets and Penrith’s deal with St.Mary’s.

And that is what is being mooted. But the Jim Beam Cup can cater for the bigger clubs and it has.

I prefer the option of bring both JBC and PL together as a NSW division one and two, with non-automatic promotion and relegation. The current system isn’t as good as it potentially could be.

I disagree. Unfortunately there just isn't money in the bush. Clubs aren't surviving now on with small operations. They would be out of their depth in PL.

I can’t agree with you. Having lived in all of the major country rugby league areas, knowing their setups and what the potential is, I feel that regional clubs could be a lot more successful than you give them credit for.

I’m not talking about taking Grafton Ghosts or Wagga Roos and throwing them into the mix as is. What I want to see is the league centrally marketed so that clubs playing out of the major regional centres have identities that mean something to whole regions and can draw upon a strong commercial sector.

Northern NSW playing out of Coffs Harbour or Lismore, being able to draw fan support and corporate dollars from Tweed Heads to Port Macquarie. Western NSW playing out of Bathurst or Dubbo, drawing support from Lithgow in the east, to the heart of the outback. The Riverina based in Wagga Wagga and being a development hub for that region and the south coast.

Not only would those regions be able to draw up enough financial support, they would more than hold their own against the big Sydney clubs.


I hope you don't think I was suggesting that 19,000 would be a possibility in PL. What I was saying is that these fixtures constantly draw more people than fixtures between say Wests Tigers and Melbourne Storm. From this, I deduce that there is an element of fans that go to these games because of their attraction to the fixtures. PL has the possibility (in its current state) to deliver what these few thousand fans want every week, if it was given a fair run by the League getting broadcasting rights.

This will not be the case if the proposed State Cup gets a run. A lot of those big clubs have shown for years that they cannot get a decent following. Sure there will be money saved (and that is why I feel like I am fighting a battle I cannot win) but is this really the type of competition we want for NSW - a battle of hollow clubs for a single carload of fans.

If this does get a run, I can see Newtown, Balmain, Norths (assuming the CC doesn't get a run) and Wests remaining on their lonesome. And if that is the case then it will be the profile of these clubs that will carry that competition in terms of credibility. But so much for the other 10 clubs that are there.

I do agree with what you are saying for the most part. It is those clubs that you mentioned that will provide the crux of the interest for fans, but without them playing against clubs that aren’t just serving up their reserves you’re not going to be able to build interest to the levels that you’d like. The QLD Cup works because it already has every factor that I am in favour of: Traditional clubs (Easts, Redcliffe etc), regional rep clubs (Central QLD) and reserve squads that have been given new life due to a distinct identity (Toowoomba and NQ).
 

Jeffles

Bench
Messages
3,412
Looks like one where we will agree to disagree.

I like your comments re: Qld Cup. I am a fan of the competition.

My real beef is to see PL shafted before it was given a fair and proper go. If it had been given a fair go and failed, I wouldn't care so much.
 

Nfed

Juniors
Messages
713
Dubbo Council have approved of the construction of a 1300 seat grandstand at the local ground at a cost of $2.8 million. They hope to get a couple of NRL games a year but it would provide an ideal venue for a State Cup side.

I was down at Leichhardt last friday night for the Balmain vs Wests games in P/L and JF. The crowd was about 200 and were all on the western side or southern end except for 6 guys in Balmain jerseys on the hill who chanted "tigers" throughout the game. At full time the Balmain team ran to the hill and clapped the supportors as if there were thousands - a classic moment.
 

Jeffles

Bench
Messages
3,412
It was great. I was there too. Spoke to a couple of officials there. Friday night matches are not good for the Balmain. Their crowds are better during the day and especially on Saturday arvo I am told.

I thought the crowd was good considering the lack of promotion. Seeing the generous followings of Balmain and Wests at Henson Park I have no doubt that these clubs could get crowds approaching 1000 and more if PL was given a fair go.

By way of contrast I notcied a lot of people leave after the match when the JBC started. I was one of them. Try as they might and as high a competition as they play in, those clubs do not have the pull of the PL clubs - despite JBC being afforded many luxuries that PL isn't.
 

mono_mal

Juniors
Messages
608
The Bulls and Hawks may not have the same pulling power although I think you'll find the crowd averages of the likes of Windsor, The Entrance and Cabramatta compare well with the top PL averages.
The Jets are the only PL club who can boast averages higher than these teams excluding NRL curtain raiser fixtures.
 

Jeffles

Bench
Messages
3,412
mono_mal said:
The Bulls and Hawks may not have the same pulling power although I think you'll find the crowd averages of the likes of Windsor, The Entrance and Cabramatta compare well with the top PL averages.
The Jets are the only PL club who can boast averages higher than these teams excluding NRL curtain raiser fixtures.

Credit where it is due MM. If I were to be objective I would have to acknowledge that some stand alone PL games get poor crowds.

BUT, there are many factors that favour the PL clubs in the long term over the JBC clubs.

1) The JBC clubs are given every chance by the NSWRL and PL lags behind. They get a HUGE write-up in Big League. They get a weekly column in Rugby League Week. They got a season launch which attracted media attention. They are also more consistently promoted on the official NSWRL website than PL. If PL was given this favourable publicity I am sure that the crowd averages for stand alone PL games would be better.

2) My comment about the Bulls and Hawks was in the context of a more general point. The current PL teams (even in the status of most teams as NRL reggies) resonate more with the general public and have a greater pulling power (even if it is an existing club's second team) than the teams of the JBC. Given the right opportunity, these games would attract more publicity etc than a fixture of the same status involving the other clubs.
 

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