Rnd 19: Saints vs Manly

[giboz71]

This is exactly my point. We are basically starting from scratch 1/2 way through a season. Let along the 2 years prior to that. We don't have any of that solid foundation to work with - Mary seems to be starting to build that, but it's too early to tell if he is the coach we need going forward.

Dugan, Widdop, Merrin, and Marshall (assuming he can recapture his form). This is a good nucleus to build a team around.

Its up to the coach to surround them with talent hopefully using a mixture of juniors and established veterans. Combinations need time to develop though.

So bring in a coach that has a plan and the conviction to stick with that plan. Given the state of our roster at the moment, I'm guessing we're at least 2 years away from being contenders, but the re-building needs to start now, and this needs to be the expectation set.

Price was trying to win every game to save his job with guys like Fien, Vidot, Chase Stanley, Ah Mau, Atela Vea, Denan Kemp...the list goes on.

And we all know how well that worked.........

 

[GT0007]

Yeah that's it. I'm obviously just not articulating my points clearly enough.

I still believe there are 4 sides that are far superior to the others. Manly, Bulldogs, Roosters and Rabbits. Yes they have all had their off games and have lost to lesser teams, but they are still very solid teams who are the most consistent this year.

I think Panthers have had a pretty good run so far but have already lost to the Roosters and the Rabbits. They beat the Bulldogs early on but will get another shot at them in a few rounds time. Have yet to play Manly. They should be in the 8 come the end but I don't think they will make the top 4.

The remaining teams making up the 8 at the moment and just outside are far more inconsistent. These are the teams that I think we can compete against. They are still above us on the table, but not in the realm of the 4 teams I listed above.

I can't see any contradiction now or the 1st time you posted. Too much logic can be a curse in here lol. I read it pretty much as Bottle did

 

[GT0007]

The Price-esque part is excusing the errors and failure to win the match because 'the effort was there'. The attitude that near enough is good enough is the reason we are in our current predicament of cellar-dwelling.

Again your comprehension is skew-if. Keep up with me sunshine, at what point did I excuse errors or say near enough is good enough? My expectations are realistic, I'm not going to call for mass sackings and a new coach if we lose against the team coming 1st. We weren't terrible but as I pointed out the were several factors for our loss and errors was one of them. That might of been what I meant by saying, "Too many Dumb errors"!!! If I thought it was ok I may have said an acceptable amount of dumb errors which I did not. Can we move on now?

 

[Mr Red]

We had enough ball in good territory to win 10 games of football. There is plenty of work to do in attack.

Of course there is , and with our attacking coach being promoted to head coach mid season you would think this would gain more focus.... But no ...it's still rubbish.... McGregor is simply not up to it , and to think he is now front runner for the job next season simply reeks of stupidity.

 

[Mr Red]

"Everything that Ah Mau does is in slow motion"........ Except eat

 

[since77]

For the first 20 minutes we actually played quite well. They were reasonably sharp and there were signs a game plan was in place. The forwards were holding their own.
Things changed when a kick went touch in goal instead of out a few metres in front of goal and Manly got seven tackles. Creagh also went off around this time. I also think an early try instead of penalty goal was the better thing to aim for.
The major difference between the 2 teams was our right hand side defence. That can be fixed. And Manly are just a classier team this year than us. Thats why most teams they play lose to them - doesn't mean they are all poorly coached.
I like some aspects of Quinlan's game and I think bringing him back into the team when Price was sacked was worth trying - we were scoring points with him in the team early in the year. I haver been waiting though for those long passes on kick returns to bite us on the butt and think its time for him to go back to the Cutters and work on his game if he or the club want him to play fullback.
While I accept that Mc Gregor still needs to prove himself as an NRL coach, I don't think anyone can really say he's doing a bad job with what he has had to work with or that another coach could have done better under the circumstances he inherited the position. We were woeful under Price. Under Mc Gregor there is a sense that we're moving forward and improving, but we lack a few forwards. We are still in the hunt for the finals (whether we get there or not is debatable) but we were absolutely gone ten weeks ago under Price - I think that's a fair start for a new coach.

 

[pinkmoon]

The Price-esque part is excusing the errors and failure to win the match because 'the effort was there'. The attitude that near enough is good enough is the reason we are in our current predicament of cellar-dwelling.

spot on man.

 

[pinkmoon]

Of course there is , and with our attacking coach being promoted to head coach mid season you would think this would gain more focus.... But no ...it's still rubbish.... McGregor is simply not up to it , and to think he is now front runner for the job next season simply reeks of stupidity.

I've noticed the usual spike in enthusiasm that often comes with a new coach; players are on notice, the joint is freshened up, and everyone rallies around each other. The problem is the honeymoon period ends and clubs have often already signed the coach on a permanent contract.

I haven't seen anything in the way we've been playing that tells me McGregor is the answer. It's the same old same old with a little more enthusiasm keeping us in the contest. We need to bring that enthusiasm to the table, but with a better drilled side, and a different hooker.

 

[Dezziedc]

I've noticed the usual spike in enthusiasm that often comes with a new coach; players are on notice, the joint is freshened up, and everyone rallies around each other. The problem is the honeymoon period ends and clubs have often already signed the coach on a permanent contract.

I haven't seen anything in the way we've been playing that tells me McGregor is the answer. It's the same old same old with a little more enthusiasm keeping us in the contest. We need to bring that enthusiasm to the table, but with a better drilled side, and a different hooker.

Pinkmoon, genuine question here - I'm not anti or pro Mary - what are you looking for in the way we are playing to indicate that Mary would be the right coach?

 

[jenninga]

I've noticed the usual spike in enthusiasm that often comes with a new coach; players are on notice, the joint is freshened up, and everyone rallies around each other. The problem is the honeymoon period ends and clubs have often already signed the coach on a permanent contract.

I haven't seen anything in the way we've been playing that tells me McGregor is the answer. It's the same old same old with a little more enthusiasm keeping us in the contest. We need to bring that enthusiasm to the table, but with a better drilled side, and a different hooker.

If Mary is appointed,it is his recruiting which will be interesting.

 

[Mr Red]

I've noticed the usual spike in enthusiasm that often comes with a new coach; players are on notice, the joint is freshened up, and everyone rallies around each other. The problem is the honeymoon period ends and clubs have often already signed the coach on a permanent contract.

Yeah that's my concern as well...
Agree with your thoughts

 

[pinkmoon]

Pinkmoon, genuine question here - I'm not anti or pro Mary - what are you looking for in the way we are playing to indicate that Mary would be the right coach?

A fair question.

The fluency in which the side goes about it's business, and the manner in which we defend.

Our attack is far too pedestrian, and players are still roaming around the field like headless chooks. We still waste tackles setting up for the big sweep either side of the ruck. If you watch Manly and Melbourne, they are dangerous on nearly every play inside the opposition 20. They move the middle around before going wide, whilst we bump it up one out, and then spread it to the fringes because that's just what you do...we still don't really go forward in numbers and challenge the opposition around the ruck (a lot of that is to do Rein).

As for the defence, well I'm seeing indecision and sliding from the fringes.

Team selections also concern me, with Quinlan getting a start at fullback. Everyone is raving about Dugan in the centres, but he has one play; cut back inside. It works against teams like Cronulla, but good luck finding gold against the better teams. Manly were sweating on it all Monday night.

 

[jenninga]

A fair question.

The fluency in which the side goes about it's business, and the manner in which we defend.

Our attack is far too pedestrian, and players are still roaming around the field like headless chooks. We still waste tackles setting up for the big sweep either side of the ruck. If you watch Manly and Melbourne, they are dangerous on nearly every play inside the opposition 20. They move the middle around before going wide, whilst we bump it up one out, and then spread it to the fringes because that's just what you do...we still don't really go forward in numbers and challenge the opposition around the ruck (a lot of that is to do Rein).

As for the defence, well I'm seeing indecision and sliding from the fringes.

Team selections also concern me, with Quinlan getting a start at fullback. Everyone is raving about Dugan in the centres, but he has one play; cut back inside. It works against teams like Cronulla, but good luck finding gold against the better teams. Manly were sweating on it all Monday night.

Apart from a mongrel prop,we need a hard running backrower on the right and piss AhMau off.Also I feel we have too many centres who are too similar ,Farrell ,Beale Runciman,noone in a Hurrell mould.Thought Mata utai may have fit the mould.
This I feel is why our attack isn't as dangerous as often as say the Storm,we need tweaking in a couple of positions to be a step up from where we are at the moment.

 

[Drain the Dragon]

GT you do fight the good fight and I respect you for that but I fear you have lost it a little.
Matai out meant a back rower was defending where he should have been, hence it was a disjointed and unfamiliar defensive line. Yes it was a well executed move but it was helped by the circumstances. We'll take it though, that's footy.
You have a hard on for the fact that Merrin and Friz were out and have been hammering it all week.
Glenn Stewart and Horo were out for them. Yet they won.
We can't be guaranteed to have our first choice 17 on the park each week. It's something we have to adjust to. They did, we didn't. Again, that's footy.
I agree though that the Symonds try was a deadset forward pass. A blind man wearing a balaclava backwards facing the back fence could see it. So sad too bad. You guessed it, that's footy

Mate I love your enthusiasm but we won't make the 8. Look at the table if you dare. It's f**king horrible. We are 60 odd points adrift of even breaking even in regards the differential. We have three sides ahead of us also not in the 8. That makes four places we have to climb just to squeeze in. Many of the teams above us will be playing each other at least once, in some cases twice in the ensuing weeks. This means they can't all lose enough games to allow us in. They will continue to accrue points on the table and in their F/A column. We are screwed. The Melbourne fiasco and the 3 X 30 point smash ups have cost us any chance. Unless we can win 5 from the next 7, and/or start putting 30-40 points on sides soon we are done.

That's footy brother. It's about 2015 now.

Best summary I've read in a long while.
Narrow wins aren't enough, we need BIG wins.
And very few of our remaining games offer that kind of opportunity.