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Robert "Finchwit"

Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,578
I was a poor call. I'm more than happy to admit that. Taking out GI so blatantly when he could potentially score a try is also a massive call. If we go up 16-0 its almost all over.

From memory, it was a pretty deep chip wasn't it? I highly doubt he would have gotten to the ball, although i concede he may have been able to keep us in goal for a drop out though.
 

big_matt

Juniors
Messages
392
From memory, it was a pretty deep chip wasn't it? I highly doubt he would have gotten to the ball, although i concede he may have been able to keep us in goal for a drop out though.

Yea thats a fair comment mate. after the try assist GI did for Gasnier against the Kiwis I never rule out him doing amazing things in that position but it may have been a stretch for him to collect that one.
 

84 Baby

Immortal
Messages
31,074
From memory, it was a pretty deep chip wasn't it? I highly doubt he would have gotten to the ball, although i concede he may have been able to keep us in goal for a drop out though.
Except it was caught on the full in goal
 

born an eel

Bench
Messages
3,882
Yea thats a fair comment mate. after the try assist GI did for Gasnier against the Kiwis I never rule out him doing amazing things in that position but it may have been a stretch for him to collect that one.
if the NRL were consistent the "alleged" wife-beater shouldn't have been playing and having him promote the game with Roy Jones Jnr did wonders for the domestic violence campaign
 

84 Baby

Immortal
Messages
31,074
I was a poor call. I'm more than happy to admit that. Taking out GI so blatantly when he could potentially score a try is also a massive call. If we go up 16-0 its almost all over.
He had no chance of scoring yet the Turner incident was in Storm's first set and gave them a massive roll on. Could have been very different if we had a penalty in your half
 

foccarcher

Juniors
Messages
5
Why hasn't anybody noticed Jarryd Hayne being taken out by Finch when he put that bomb up that Slater knocked on. He had his eyes on Hayne the whole way and knocked him off balance just as he was about to jump for the ball??????????
 

big_matt

Juniors
Messages
392
He had no chance of scoring yet the Turner incident was in Storm's first set and gave them a massive roll on. Could have been very different if we had a penalty in your half

Again, I said that the Turner incident was a big call. We got lucky there. I personally think that someone getting taken out around the tryline when they are attempting to score is a bigger incident than someone getting extra metres at midfield but I can see your point of view as well and you can easily argue the turner incident was bigger. I suppose my overall point is both sides got poor calls.
 
Messages
472
btw archer pulled that 20m tap out of his arse wen hayne caught it in goal wen they kicked it off the ground, he sh*t himself and had no idea what to do!
 

84 Baby

Immortal
Messages
31,074
Again, I said that the Turner incident was a big call. We got lucky there. I personally think that someone getting taken out around the tryline when they are attempting to score is a bigger incident than someone getting extra metres at midfield but I can see your point of view as well and you can easily argue the turner incident was bigger. I suppose my overall point is both sides got poor calls.
The Inglis thing had no bearing on the game though. He was no chance of scoring and the ball was caught in goal on the full
 

Ike E Bear

Juniors
Messages
1,998
They are not trying to be inconsistent though. They are human and make mistakes. Not sure how you can say the moimoi penalty at the end was a worse decision than GI getting taken out. The GI incident we all agree should have been a penalty. The moimoi decision is debateable. You can say he was hard done by or you can say laws of the game were applied.

GI could well have scored if he wasn't taken out (he would have had to outjump hayne and is 5 inches taller), whereas if moimoi didn't get penalised you could potentially have gone down the field and put pressure on us or scored (and then had to convert).

The timing of the penalty and the state of the game IMO made it seem a worse decision than it actually was. If it happened in the 1st minute no-one would have even remembered it or complained about it, and the rules of the game shouldn't change just because of the time on the clock. Yes you can make a case moimoi was hard done by, but there were far worse decisions in the game (and some of them were against the Storm).

I agree with a lot of what you say here, although the reason I singled out the Moi Moi decision as paticularly frustrating (not saying it was "worse" and you are right about timing and context within the game) is that Archer initially indicated a penalty for stripping and then revised it to holding down. He was obviously keen to blow a penalty regardless, eh? That's the part that I say is indefensible ... yet we see Finch trying to defend it with all kinds of dodgy smoke and mirrors.

EVERYONE (except maybe Gould) recognises that the Inglis incident should have been a penalty. It's not even in dispute. Finch has essentially conceded that it should have been a penalty ... yet is ready to defend the stupidity of the Moi Moi penalty to the bitter end.

"Finchwit" is an apt nickname.
 
Messages
63
Now I know the Fui penalty has been done ad nauseum (and then some), as has the associated "what if" scenarios.

In creating this thread I am not intending to look at the merits of that particular penalty, nor speculate as to how it might have changed the result.

What I would like to examine is Robert Finch's response to the controversy, which I believe is totally misinformed, unprofessional and certainly not in keeping with what any member of the Rugby League fan community should expect from someone in a position of his gravity within the game.

The following quotations from him, are taken from The Daily Telegraph article: "Clearly a penalty, says Finch".

I am quoting verbatim so to avoid any potential contextual ambiguities:

"From what I have seen, it's quite clear that the player running back (Kingston) knocks the ball out of Slater's hands with his left knee," Finch said."

"If the tackle is completed you must clear the ruck. And if a player knocks the ball out of another player's hands when he hasn't cleared that ruck, it's a penalty - that's a penalty any day of the week. Also, the player (Todd Lowrie) comes back and puts his hands on Slater when the tackle is completed."


First of all, the fact that his justification (Kingston) is at odds with what the original penalty was given for, has already been sufficiently discussed.

Further to this, he also gives a backup reason of Todd Lowrie's hand (?!?) just in case his obfuscation employing Kingston, didn't muddy the original issue beyond rational debate sufficiently enough.

As the so-called "boss" of refereeing, Robert Finch more than anyone else in the game, should be able to present the on-field legalities of Rugby League in a clear, concise and understandable manner.

His job is not to lay smokescreen (Lowrie), after smokescreen (Kingston), to render the debate redundant via over-complication, when the sole area of focus should only have been the original player who was penalised (Moi Moi), for the pure and simple reason that this is the only area where "Rugby League Law" was applied at the time.

His job should solely be focused upon commenting upon how rulings were actually applied, not on how they could have been applied.

This statement reminds me of how a grade-3 schoolboy would conduct an argument:

But, but, but . . . you could have penalised Kingston!

Oh yeah?

But, but, but . . . Todd Lowrie had a hand on Slater's back!

Nerrrrrrrrr!
So there!

Totally unprofessional, and illustrative of an extreme incompotence of talent and temperament, of what should be expected from somebody who sits at the top of the heap, for one of the most paramount aspects of our game, in refereeing.

I would also like to revisit the comment:

And if a player knocks the ball out of another player's hands when he hasn't cleared that ruck, it's a penalty - that's a penalty any day of the week.


Sunday was a "day of the week".

Nathan Hindmarsh had the ball knocked out of his hand, and it wasn't a penalty.

Last Friday was also a "day of the week".

Andrew Ryan's knee dislodged the ball from Ben Smith's hand when he was playing it, and it wasn't a penalty.

Of course, I am only giving Parramatta examples, but I am sure fans of all clubs could highlight instances where it wasn't their "day of the week" to receive this penalty.

And of course Robert Finch should have pointed out the Nathan Hindmarsh example, after all he also said the following:

"I think it's unfair to single out one incident. In the first half Greg Inglis was taken high and late after a kick and instead of Parramatta getting a 20m restart, Melbourne could have had two points (courtesy of a penalty goal)."

"I think it's unfair to single out one incident"

But you know what, I am going to anyway
(continues with Inglis)

If he decided to point out the Inglis incident (which I also believe should have been a penalty to Melbourne), why didn't he point out the Hindmarsh one?

Also, why did he not point out that Steve Turner, having been told to play the ball once his momentum was stopped, should have been penalised for running another 30 metres?

He talks about a possible 2-pointer for the Inglis incident?

How about the possible 6 points that Parramatta might not have conceded if Turner was rightly penalised?

And this is why Robert Finch should not get into a game of "what-ifs"

His role is meant to be objective.

And here he has stuck his neck out, over one arguably incorrect penalty on Moi Moi, basically saying:

"Well, it was a penalty"

How?

"Well, if Fui didn't deserve to be penalised, Kingston did"

"And, if the Kingston excuse isn't enough to placate my detractors, then how about Lowrie, huh?"

"And if this hasn't confused you all enough, and you are still unhappy that Parramatta may have been denied a chance, then there is always Inglis"

Nerrrrrrrrr! So there!


Nevermind mentioning that by this stated logic, Hindmarsh should have earned a penalty for the exact same situation.

Nevermind pointing out that this would have been at a crucial time, given the momentum he had earnt from carving up the Melbourne line.

Nevermind pointing out that Steve Turner ran on with immunity after being told to play the ball.


This is not about Parramatta being "robbed". I only highlight these as counter-arguments to Finch's "2 point Inglis" speculation.

Melbourne are a phenomenally talented football team, and are more than worthy of their title, not only on how they played the season, but also how they played the Grand Final.

This is not about that.

This is about a refereeing boss, who should stick to commenting upon the confines of rules applied, and the merit of how these were applied; and not on speculation of how they could have been applied, all in the name of a feeble attempt at justification of a penalty that was arguably, given incorrectly at the time.

It is not his job to correct it in retrospect, by hand-picking other likely scapegoats that would substitute for any ambiguities.

And if he wants the job of pointing out penalties that could have/should have been given in other areas, then it is an "all or nothing" prospect, not one of picking only the "low hanging fruit" to suit his agenda.

To mine, Robert Finch has clearly illustrated in this instance that he is unsuited to the job that he holds.

A person of higher talent, and better temperament, is clearly required for this role, lest the game of Rugby League not only continue to suffer the indignities of such ambiguities and controversies, but also the cringe-inducing embarrassment of having to watch ham-fisted clowns like Finch butcher their way through trying to sweep these messes under the rug.

That rug has been overflowing for years.
Your comments are absolutely spot on. Well said!
The way in which Robert Finch responded has in my opinion brought the game into disrepute -- given his official position in the NRL. He should be fined $10,000 for his naive comments which only confirm that he has well and truely passed his use by date. Maybe Finch should go into politics by joining the "Family First" Party.

I too agree that Melbourne played great football and deserved their victory. I congratulate the Parramatta players (especially Moi Moi, Cayless, and Hindmarsh) on the professional manner in which they responded to the many questions on this particular penalty. However I remain absolutely astounded that a Referees Official could make the comments attributed to Robert Finch.

It will be interesting to see if / how David Gallop responds.
 

big_matt

Juniors
Messages
392
I agree with a lot of what you say here, although the reason I singled out the Moi Moi decision as paticularly frustrating (not saying it was "worse" and you are right about timing and context within the game) is that Archer initially indicated a penalty for stripping and then revised it to holding down. He was obviously keen to blow a penalty regardless, eh? That's the part that I say is indefensible ... yet we see Finch trying to defend it with all kinds of dodgy smoke and mirrors.

EVERYONE (except maybe Gould) recognises that the Inglis incident should have been a penalty. It's not even in dispute. Finch has essentially conceded that it should have been a penalty ... yet is ready to defend the stupidity of the Moi Moi penalty to the bitter end.

"Finchwit" is an apt nickname.

Yea thats fair.

That penalty (and the debate afterwards) actually reminds me of when ponting got out during the ashes. He was adjudged to be caught but was actually plum lbw. the explanation given afterwards by the umpires was a bit muddled.

The England fans point of view there was 'ok the ref may have explained it poorly or got the reason for being out wrong but either way he was definately out'.

It's very similar here, where storm fans would agree that Finch is an idiot and offered a poor explanation (and archer may have also changed his mind) but at the end of the day you could argue that there was an infringement there (either by Kingston or moimoi holding him down). Parra fans will say rough call. Storm fans will say rules of the game. There will be beef cause there is passion involved.

We all know Finch is a fool though - thats for sure!
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
156,838
Finch is an incompetent arsewipe, he even admits he hasn't seen a replay of the game but yet he chooses to comment on decisions which may have cost Parra a Victory. The sooner this bloke is sacked the better for RL.
 

oldmancraigy

Coach
Messages
12,075
I was a poor call. I'm more than happy to admit that. Taking out GI so blatantly when he could potentially score a try is also a massive call. If we go up 16-0 its almost all over.


Mate, you wouldn't even be up 6-0 if the ref hadn't mangled that Turner call.

There's absolutely no guarantee that Inglis was going to get to the ball before Hayne - agreed, stupid play by bone-headed Ben - very lucky to get away with it. But in the end it looked like Hayne had that thing covered.

Turner on the other hand, was on the ground, and the ref said "that's TWO - ROLL AWAY" - he gets up and runs.

Huh???

Lead directly to Melbourne's first try, and gave them the ascendency for the first 30 minutes.

Following that, Parra were CLEARLY the better side for the rest of the game.

Thanks for admitting they stuffed up Finch - that was great.

We'll get ya next year :D
 

oldmancraigy

Coach
Messages
12,075
Which weren't applied in any other tackle for the entirety of the game

That's the hard thing - how many holding down penalties were Parra given all game long?

Will Chambers in the first half slows down Mortimer for a LONG time (after his linebreak) - arguably a professional foul - no call there.... ouch.
 

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