Round 18 v Roosters

[Tomaraque]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

 

[jay mac]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

Great post and welcome. You’ll find the best thing about posting on here is it’s better than yelling at the tv.

Re: Blocker, and this game in particular, i knew we were in trouble when JWH was binned and walked up the tunnel past Leniu and May warming up on the bikes. They roll those two monsters off the bench to replace their already representative front row and we send out Blocker and BMM to combat them. It was like lambs to the slaughter. Despite all the fanfare about the closeness of the ladder, this competition is once again a story of the haves and have nots.

 

[Dragon David]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

Great post and welcome. You’ll find the best thing about posting on here is it’s better than yelling at the tv.

Re: Blocker, and this game in particular, i knew we were in trouble when JWH was binned and walked up the tunnel past Leniu and May warming up on the bikes. They roll those two monsters off the bench to replace their already representative front row and we send out Blocker and BMM to combat them. It was like lambs to the slaughter. Despite all the fanfare about the closeness of the ladder, this competition is once again a story of the haves and have nots.

Right on the button Tomaraque and jay mac. Welcome to the Dragons Forum Tomaraque and agree with your post.

Cheers DD

 

[since77]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

Welcome! Nice first post!

 

[<StGeorgeDragons>]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

Welcome and nice post. I concur completely, and 100% the Manly loss was the worst I have seen in years given the circumstances. I’m still in shock at that one.

There’s been a trend by fans to point out Hunt and Lawrie’s shortcomings for a couple years now after many years of being the first two players picked. I see Blake as cut and dried and hopefully our chasing of multiple props will mean he is moved from the bench to reserves. Keep him around as depth if we can’t move him on. It’s just time now.

As for Ben…for a long time I backed Hunt because I felt he was being constricted by those players around him, namely forwards and halves partners. He was great in 2022 in such a bad team. For certain under Flanagan those standards around him have improved and it has really shown up Hunt in my eyes. His organisation, kicking and controlling frailties have been made very clear. There’s nowhere for him to hide. I have no issues with his effort or will to win but he gets outclassed most weeks by his opposite number.

By the time you take into account Hunt’s massive salary, disinterest to play hooker for his club (and not origin), and his requests to leave us midseason, he really is not leaving much of a legacy when we finally do part ways. Each game he gets more unpopular as far as the knowledgeable fans go at least.

The fans can’t see how he continues as a captain let alone our match controller and attacking architect. Even so, we get no indication that the coach sees him as a problem and this a real issue because I generally see Shane as someone who can see what works and what doesn’t. It doesn’t compute. Right now, our halves are the main issue.

I can only imagine how overwhelming it would be for Shane right now as he can’t replace Lomax - major problem, he hasn’t yet secured that damaging prop - major problem and now the halves pairing he was so enthusiastic about are flopping and we have no leadership on field - major, major concern.

 

[Veteran Dragon]

I know statistics don’t tell the whole story like game management but Ben Hunt compared to Sam Walker probably the next QLD half back aren’t that bad.

Games
Ben Hunt. 15
Sam Walker. 15

Tries
BH. 3
SW. 4

Average kicking metres
BH. 490.7
SW. 288.9

Try assists
BH. 21
SW. 18

Line break assists
BH. 12
SW. 16

Off loads
BH. 14
SW. 7

Tackles
BH. 220. Efficiency 81.2%
SW. 265 efficiency 83.6%

Average running metres
BH. 68
SW. 36

Total running metres
BH. 1023
SW. 554

 

[John moz]

Ben Hunt kicking game again letting us down each week. He isn't a captain at no 7 that will game manage a win against big clubs . Even if we make the 8 we will drop out in week 1 of finals.
He looks fustrated and looks to others and spits the dummy after he gets caught with ball on last tackle it's under 10s stuff.

 

[Dragon David]

Welcome and nice post. I concur completely, and 100% the Manly loss was the worst I have seen in years given the circumstances. I’m still in shock at that one.

There’s been a trend by fans to point out Hunt and Lawrie’s shortcomings for a couple years now after many years of being the first two players picked. I see Blake as cut and dried and hopefully our chasing of multiple props will mean he is moved from the bench to reserves. Keep him around as depth if we can’t move him on. It’s just time now.

As for Ben…for a long time I backed Hunt because I felt he was being constricted by those players around him, namely forwards and halves partners. He was great in 2022 in such a bad team. For certain under Flanagan those standards around him have improved and it has really shown up Hunt in my eyes. His organisation, kicking and controlling frailties have been made very clear. There’s nowhere for him to hide. I have no issues with his effort or will to win but he gets outclassed most weeks by his opposite number.

By the time you take into account Hunt’s massive salary, disinterest to play hooker for his club (and not origin), and his requests to leave us midseason, he really is not leaving much of a legacy when we finally do part ways. Each game he gets more unpopular as far as the knowledgeable fans go at least.

The fans can’t see how he continues as a captain let alone our match controller and attacking architect. Even so, we get no indication that the coach sees him as a problem and this a real issue because I generally see Shane as someone who can see what works and what doesn’t. It doesn’t compute. Right now, our halves are the main issue.

I can only imagine how overwhelming it would be for Shane right now as he can’t replace Lomax - major problem, he hasn’t yet secured that damaging prop - major problem and now the halves pairing he was so enthusiastic about are flopping and we have no leadership on field - major, major concern.

Well said StGeorgeDragons. Lots of concerns for sure which you have clearly identified.

 

[Dorsai]

The hardest thing, at times, being a Dragons supporter is knowing which team your getting. We either look the goods early on or don't. Thats when I know to turn the game off rather than risk a broken set.

There is always potential and it seems to be what the mood is rather than anything else. You could tell early on that the roosters were all over us making far more metres. Our returns and pushes forward were pedestrian and slow. We did get such a push along with some repeat sets and the bin but frankly they looked a bit clueless.

I do not believe this is what the coach tells them to do, and its just that attitude when on the field, which is mighty hard at times to turn around from. We have seen some gutsy efforts in close games or being just behind to dominate. We were able to go on with it against the tigers as well. But many games its just so predictable and lacks class.

We have a number of players in our ranks who should be performing better than they are. We also have a number of juniors coming through who light the game up in lower grades but fail to click into that higher gear.

Prospects like Couchman and Fenegai I would have said previously were not going to cut it, but I have seen a marked difference in running and abilty since Flanagan has taken oveer. Getting that mix right of enough old timers to pull the juniors through and juniors to step up is and must be the most frustrating job since finding the holly grail.

I do think our past coaches have missed and thrown out talent that is now shinning elsewhere, something I am not sure Flanagan would have missed, but we get cruelled so often by ex juniors or players that were just not offered contracts when they line up against us.

This is still a rebuild after so many years of wasted talent and opportunity by short sighted coaches. As much as it pains me, I continue to wait to see when we start to perform regularly in the 8 or even the 4. Those days are still a bit aways I fear.

The roosters were never going to loose that game and we never really looked like trying to take it from them. I know Flanagan is juggling contracts and players which must make the hard decisions about players even harder.

The inclusion of Cook next year should give us some more dummy half options as Liddle certainly deserves his spot as well. Players like Lawrie though probably need to go. Too many of our players keep waiting on someone else to produce something instead of working together to produce it. I don't know how Flanagan changes that attitude unless he makes drastic drops.

It will be interesting to see Ravalawa back next week after his dropping and suspension. Will his attitude change? Is it then something we say to other players to go back to reserves and work your way in? The team is threading a needle and if big changes were made, we might start dropping places quickly which will just have everyone crying for Flanagan's blood instead of saying he is at least doing what he is asked and trying to get form and talent on the field instead of just players.

 

[<StGeorgeDragons>]

I know statistics don’t tell the whole story like game management but Ben Hunt compared to Sam Walker probably the next QLD half back aren’t that bad.

Games
Ben Hunt. 15
Sam Walker. 15

Tries
BH. 3
SW. 4

Average kicking metres
BH. 490.7
SW. 288.9

Try assists
BH. 21
SW. 18

Line break assists
BH. 12
SW. 16

Off loads
BH. 14
SW. 7

Tackles
BH. 220. Efficiency 81.2%
SW. 265 efficiency 83.6%

Average running metres
BH. 68
SW. 36

Total running metres
BH. 1023
SW. 554

Busy and talented he is. I think he has the most try assists in the comp which doesn’t seem to align with the argument but yes I don’t think the stats say it all. He needs a change of scenery as he winds up his career.

As a match winner, and leader, an executioner, a chief architect under pressure and a taker of opportunities he comes up short far more often then someone like Walker and DCE.

Our stunted attack really impacts on things like defence. We get in the position to score and then Hunt and Kyle look lost and our shape or lack thereof gives the defensive outfit great confidence. Eventually we lose the mental game because of it. That’s how I see it but I know it’s not the whole story.

Look at Toby Couchman thrive. obviously a great athlete and a solid looking player with enthusiasm to burn right now. Why he is so effective is that he has added in unpredictable aspect to our go forward. In a similar way to when Burns made his debut for the club.

I feel if we can get some young enthusiastic half back in we’d be losing out in some of Hunt’s areas of experience like he is strength and bullish play but we’d be able to build something brand new which seems to be lacking. We are stale and our halves don’t put fear in the opposition. I’m anxious to see change but I’m not going to lie - we could do a lot worse than have Ben Hunt in the team and I do respect his talents.

 

[KogarahWarrior]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

What a great first post. Welcome to the forum brother

 

[sammymills]

The more and more i think about this game and have re-watched half of it last night im not as angry or upset as i was on Sunday.

if you think about it, the Roosters 1-17 at full strength pretty much have origin or international level players in every position. Im proud of the boys for hanging in with them as long as they did. We had our chances actually to put more pressure on them and couldnt execute which is frustrating. Kyle putting in a grubber for no one in first half resulting in 7 tackle set was a real coach killer. I think at the time territory was close to 80:20 to the roosters.

 

[denis preston]

Hunt leaves him for dead
7 years of crap and f**king up the cap.
2 years only from that Norman bloke but at least he managed to win us 2 games with field goals

Absolute dribble.

 

[kit66]

I know statistics don’t tell the whole story like game management but Ben Hunt compared to Sam Walker probably the next QLD half back aren’t that bad.

Games
Ben Hunt. 15
Sam Walker. 15

Tries
BH. 3
SW. 4

Average kicking metres
BH. 490.7
SW. 288.9

Try assists
BH. 21
SW. 18

Line break assists
BH. 12
SW. 16

Off loads
BH. 14
SW. 7

Tackles
BH. 220. Efficiency 81.2%
SW. 265 efficiency 83.6%

Average running metres
BH. 68
SW. 36

Total running metres
BH. 1023
SW. 554

Hunt cops a lot of hate but he carries us most weeks and gets sfa support.

To give it more context you could add the stats for their partners, which would highlight the need to find Hunt a better partner and/or get our halves sharing the duties and working together more.
e.g. Kyle 3 try assists, av kick mtrs 54
Keary 12 try assists, av kick mtrs 248.

Throw in other spine players and it gets worse.
3 of the Rorters Spine, Keary, Walker and Teddy are in the top 10 for try assists.
Also Tupou and Dom Young are the top two in the league for line breaks. Depressing innit.

 

[blacksafake]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

Welcome to the mad house

 

[Wolfgang90]

Hunt cops a lot of hate but he carries us most weeks and gets sfa support.

To give it more context you could add the stats for their partners, which would highlight the need to find Hunt a better partner and/or get our halves sharing the duties and working together more.
e.g. Kyle 3 try assists, av kick mtrs 54
Keary 12 try assists, av kick mtrs 248.

Throw in other spine players and it gets worse.
3 of the Rorters Spine, Keary, Walker and Teddy are in the top 10 for try assists.
Also Tupou and Dom Young are the top two in the league for line breaks. Depressing innit.

Hunt should have great stats for the amount of time he hoggs the ball. Put Keary next to Hunt & you'll have similar stats to Kyle. Hunt in pre-season said he needs to give up more share of the ball & domination in attack. He did it for 2 games then reverted back to his natural ball dominant self.

 

[KogarahWarrior]

Hunt should have great stats for the amount of time he hoggs the ball. Put Keary next to Hunt & you'll have similar stats to Kyle. Hunt in pre-season said he needs to give up more share of the ball & domination in attack. He did it for 2 games then reverted back to his natural ball dominant self.

The two games he gave it up were our best wins as well

Tbh tho when Kyle gets the ball now all he does is that stupid dummy and run

 

[Captain Apollo]

Hunt should have great stats for the amount of time he hoggs the ball. Put Keary next to Hunt & you'll have similar stats to Kyle. Hunt in pre-season said he needs to give up more share of the ball & domination in attack. He did it for 2 games then reverted back to his natural ball dominant self.

I can't comment on every week, but at the game on Sunday, more often than not Flanagan was operating at first receiver whilst Hunt was at second receiver. I can recall many a time that Flanagan would be passing the ball to Hunt who was playing outside him, especially during the first half.

Not saying he isn't aa ball hog or ball dominant, but considering Hunt at halfback is whom you'd expect to be first receiver, it was a noticeable difference in expectation.

 

[Tomaraque]

Thank you for the very warm welcome. I won't get the chance to pop in that regularly but when I get the chance I will jump in and make some form of, albeit humble, contribution where I can.

Am a big believer in that we may disagree on many points but work on the assumption that we, as dragon supporters, all want our team to be competitive and successful. I do enjoy all the differing views that I have enjoyed reading over the years.

Without derailing the game thread, I do see a positive move in the important area of 'culture' in our team since last year. I do think the new coach has made a huge difference to us in that area.

Notwithstanding, I think we are a bit fragile as a team, mentally and sometimes physically, it can change over time and has since last season, we are on the move up, slowly.

At this point we seem to rely on teams to beat themselves to a degree but I think this will change over time.

Last thing, before I go back into the 'bleachers' for a while, on the area of culture, one young man that does impress me is Tyrell Sloan.

He does appear to be a bit up and down in his development, but I do see in him a player that wants to win, has a team mentality, and most importantly, he appears to genuinely want to learn his trade better.

I get the feeling that he listens, it is a process with him. The other things I like about him is he appears to genuinely loves to play and you can see it in his smile and face.

I think we need to strap in and continue the bumpy ride with him, got a feeling it may be worth it. I hope so...........

He will give us some high blood pressure in the future, no doubt, but I really like his attitude and I hope that his raw ability matures.

Again, thanks for the welcome.

Go the dragons!

 

[Nanadragon]

Hi all

I have been a reader of the forum on and off for quite a few years. Finally taken the leap to join.

Never like to lose to the roosters and take some comfort in the loss by thinking a long way back to 2010, not enough, but something.

Quite simply we were outclassed on the weekend by a far superior outfit.

The recent one that I found hardest to swallow was the loss to Manly, they were totally on their knees with injuries, in every way, we had them. The main difference in my eyes was DCE stood up as a captain and had a great game and led the side superbly. On the other hand Ben Hunt could not control the game and gave away a number of key 7 tackle changeovers from kicks. The game that got away.

I am more hopeful this year than any other in recent years but we have a long, long way to go.

I still scratch my head nearly every game at Ben Hunt's performances and play choices and for the life of me I see Blake Lawrie and am surprised he keeps being selected week to week.

I thought Blake had a very good year last year but this year is most concerning.

Anyway, all the best

Welcome Tom! This Forum makes supporting the Dragons worthwhile.