Round 20 v Storm

[Girds89]

Its time to do something with Kikau, a guy with his athletic abilities and his consistent effort should not be hurting us so often defensively, the game got to fast for him to play on an edge all game the little guys out there love it when he rushes them they go straight past him with ease just like the halfback did yesterday, if he sticks an arm out an clocks someone high hes gone. Offensively we arent even using him well as a decoy now, we just expect to make catch and passes most centres struggle with and which he only makes 10 percent of the time. He's a f**king beast f**k the skill shit and decoys off and put him in the middle for stints and tell him to smash anything that moves. One good game in five is nowhere near good enough, there is a reason most here are talking about letting him go when his contract is up. Honestly it boggles my mind we wont try something with him. A guy with his gifts should not be struggling to make an impact.

If there is one player in our team who is a confidence player it is kikau. He genuinley looks like he doesnt believe in himself or what hes capable.

He looks really down on confidence. Im not sure moving to the front row is the answer bit i agree something needs to be done. I suggested in the other chat we bench him this week and try use him for impact instead of playing him 80.

 

[Smug Panther]

He kicked munster. Deserves a week

And a medal

If there is one player in our team who is a confidence player it is kikau. He genuinley looks like he doesnt believe in himself or what hes capable.

He looks really down on confidence. Im not sure moving to the front row is the answer bit i agree something needs to be done. I suggested in the other chat we bench him this week and try use him for impact instead of playing him 80.

Poor coaching is his issue

 

[betcats]

g

If there is one player in our team who is a confidence player it is kikau. He genuinley looks like he doesnt believe in himself or what hes capable.

He looks really down on confidence. Im not sure moving to the front row is the answer bit i agree something needs to be done. I suggested in the other chat we bench him this week and try use him for impact instead of playing him 80.

Yeah he definitely can be down on confidence and have it show. I feel like the harder he tries sometimes the worse it gets for him. Like his defensive mistakes are often when he is getting off the line fast its not laziness or lack of effort he just cant' keep up with halves and centres, a team like melbourne would 100 percent picked that up in video.

We need to change it up for him, use him differently even if it is just temporary. Stints off the bench, stints in the middle...just do something differently so he can start to impact positively with out the mistakes and misses and penalties.

 

[The Realist]

The most important thing to me was Coach Cleary after game saying it’s not good enough .We can’t fix any problems if we first don’t admit we have any.No use saying this playing was missing this player was missing.Next week just focus on attack start getting that back to where it was game by game

Yeah that was pleasing that the coach was seriously unhappy with that performance unlike some fans who just want to brush it off. There are some highly worrying signs.


He is a little blind with his selections though - it has been clear for a while that Naden is a winger for us, unless he plays centre consistently. It has also been clear that Tago has been underutilized. We also need to work on defusing bombs near our line - we often make a mess of it and give up repeat sets or worse.

 

[Girds89]

g


Yeah he definitely can be down on confidence and have it show. I feel like the harder he tries sometimes the worse it gets for him. Like his defensive mistakes are often when he is getting off the line fast its not laziness or lack of effort he just cant' keep up with halves and centres, a team like melbourne would 100 percent picked that up in video.

We need to change it up for him, use him differently even if it is just temporary. Stints off the bench, stints in the middle...just do something differently so he can start to impact positively with out the mistakes and misses and penalties.

100%.

Melbs start fast and can blow teans away in first 20mins.

Its why at full strength martin needs to be 2nd row with capes and yeo at lock.

Thats our best combo to start defensivley and could help stop melbs fast starts. Kiks and tpj can come on when the games slowed down a bit.

 

[Girds89]

Yeah that was pleasing that the coach was seriously unhappy with that performance unlike some fans who just want to brush it off. There are some highly worrying signs.


He is a little blind with his selections though - it has been clear for a while that Naden is a winger for us, unless he plays centre consistently. It has also been clear that Tago has been underutilized. We also need to work on defusing bombs near our line - we often make a mess of it and give up repeat sets or worse.

Up until origin this year cleary really had a dream run as coach. We had no real injuries and minimal blokes picked in origin last year.

Imo his coaching through this tough period really has left a lot to be desired.

He seems reluctant to make tough calls with some players.

 

[Girds89]

See a few have named staines again.

Genuinley interested to hear peoples thoughts on what hes done good, where he needs to improve and why hes deserving of a spot still?

Is it people havent seen enough of taylan may to think he warrants a chance?

He looks almost as quick as staines to me. Has a good step on him and a much more evasive running style than charlie. He has a brilliant combo with tago and he really runs at the line hard. Hes quite hard to tackle given his how agile he is. He looks safe under the high ball too. Havent seen enough of him to know how he is defensivley on the wing yet tho.

I know charlie isnt a mansour style winger which is fine.

I think he finished tries well this year. However alot of the tries his finished 90% of nrl wingers wouldve too. Maybe the slower ones like sauce mightve missed a few hes got but the stronger guys probably score one or two by stepping back in.

I think defensivley he has been smart and made good decisions on when to jam in. He has generally done pretty well on bigger men.

As for negatives. He doesnt look confident under the high ball. Hes let it bounce a few times and just looked a bit shaky.

He looks scared to run the ball or get involved. When he does he gets belted resulting in a slow play the ball. It really frustrated me last night when he batted the ball dead and JAC was the only chaser and 3m behind him. The ball was at a perfect height to catch. When a defender is sprinting at you like that its very easy to step one bloke as they literally have to adjust last second for which way you go. Weve seen brian too countless times fight to get out of our in goal but charlie just knocked it dead without even attrmpting to beat JAC... and the game was done. Wasnt going to cost us anything by taking a risk.

Its little things like that which have bee dissapointing. For all the talk of him being a speedstar we really havent seen it this year.

Playing on the wing is probably the easiest position to debut in. Hes been there all year yet theres others in the comp on the wing who have looked much better after only a few games.

The club obviously see him as potential at fb but i think the days of a fb like him are long gone. His similiar to a brett hodgson style who was great at backing up for offloads and only playing around the ruck.

Most fbs these days are 95 to 100kgs. Can make 200m a game and do a lot of the hard yards. Teddy turbo rts ponga etc etc. Staines isnt in that mould so really not sure where his future lies given he has struggled on the wing.

 

[WestyLife]

See a few have named staines again.

Genuinley interested to hear peoples thoughts on what hes done good, where he needs to improve and why hes deserving of a spot still?

Is it people havent seen enough of taylan may to think he warrants a chance?

He looks almost as quick as staines to me. Has a good step on him and a much more evasive running style than charlie. He has a brilliant combo with tago and he really runs at the line hard. Hes quite hard to tackle given his how agile he is. He looks safe under the high ball too. Havent seen enough of him to know how he is defensivley on the wing yet tho.

I know charlie isnt a mansour style winger which is fine.

I think he finished tries well this year. However alot of the tries his finished 90% of nrl wingers wouldve too. Maybe the slower ones like sauce mightve missed a few hes got but the stronger guys probably score one or two by stepping back in.

I think defensivley he has been smart and made good decisions on when to jam in. He has generally done pretty well on bigger men.

As for negatives. He doesnt look confident under the high ball. Hes let it bounce a few times and just looked a bit shaky.

He looks scared to run the ball or get involved. When he does he gets belted resulting in a slow play the ball. It really frustrated me last night when he batted the ball dead and JAC was the only chaser and 3m behind him. The ball was at a perfect height to catch. When a defender is sprinting at you like that its very easy to step one bloke as they literally have to adjust last second for which way you go. Weve seen brian too countless times fight to get out of our in goal but charlie just knocked it dead without even attrmpting to beat JAC... and the game was done. Wasnt going to cost us anything by taking a risk.

Its little things like that which have bee dissapointing. For all the talk of him being a speedstar we really havent seen it this year.

Playing on the wing is probably the easiest position to debut in. Hes been there all year yet theres others in the comp on the wing who have looked much better after only a few games.

The club obviously see him as potential at fb but i think the days of a fb like him are long gone. His similiar to a brett hodgson style who was great at backing up for offloads and only playing around the ruck.

Most fbs these days are 95 to 100kgs. Can make 200m a game and do a lot of the hard yards. Teddy turbo rts ponga etc etc. Staines isnt in that mould so really not sure where his future lies given he has struggled on the wing.

I was gone a avoid it but since it's coming up. I think coaching is letting him down. We have two very skilful players on the right edge and no real plays to take advantage of it. Both Crichton and Staines have speed but they don't kick for them like the Storm do JAC for example. Staines is a good passer and even when at fullback you could see him quickly get to the outside and set up players. Given time he's the ball playing fullback we lack.

 

[Smug Panther]

See a few have named staines again.

Genuinley interested to hear peoples thoughts on what hes done good, where he needs to improve and why hes deserving of a spot still?

Is it people havent seen enough of taylan may to think he warrants a chance?

He looks almost as quick as staines to me. Has a good step on him and a much more evasive running style than charlie. He has a brilliant combo with tago and he really runs at the line hard. Hes quite hard to tackle given his how agile he is. He looks safe under the high ball too. Havent seen enough of him to know how he is defensivley on the wing yet tho.

I know charlie isnt a mansour style winger which is fine.

I think he finished tries well this year. However alot of the tries his finished 90% of nrl wingers wouldve too. Maybe the slower ones like sauce mightve missed a few hes got but the stronger guys probably score one or two by stepping back in.

I think defensivley he has been smart and made good decisions on when to jam in. He has generally done pretty well on bigger men.

As for negatives. He doesnt look confident under the high ball. Hes let it bounce a few times and just looked a bit shaky.

He looks scared to run the ball or get involved. When he does he gets belted resulting in a slow play the ball. It really frustrated me last night when he batted the ball dead and JAC was the only chaser and 3m behind him. The ball was at a perfect height to catch. When a defender is sprinting at you like that its very easy to step one bloke as they literally have to adjust last second for which way you go. Weve seen brian too countless times fight to get out of our in goal but charlie just knocked it dead without even attrmpting to beat JAC... and the game was done. Wasnt going to cost us anything by taking a risk.

Its little things like that which have bee dissapointing. For all the talk of him being a speedstar we really havent seen it this year.

Playing on the wing is probably the easiest position to debut in. Hes been there all year yet theres others in the comp on the wing who have looked much better after only a few games.

The club obviously see him as potential at fb but i think the days of a fb like him are long gone. His similiar to a brett hodgson style who was great at backing up for offloads and only playing around the ruck.

Most fbs these days are 95 to 100kgs. Can make 200m a game and do a lot of the hard yards. Teddy turbo rts ponga etc etc. Staines isnt in that mould so really not sure where his future lies given he has struggled on the wing.

I think he's been doing well for a rookie. Generally defends well and makes the right decisions. Like @WestyLife said Ivan hasn't helped by manufacturing plays down that side. Critta looks great at times but he's not earning his massive pay cheque

 

[Kilkenny]

See a few have named staines again.

Genuinley interested to hear peoples thoughts on what hes done good, where he needs to improve and why hes deserving of a spot still?

Is it people havent seen enough of taylan may to think he warrants a chance?

He looks almost as quick as staines to me. Has a good step on him and a much more evasive running style than charlie. He has a brilliant combo with tago and he really runs at the line hard. Hes quite hard to tackle given his how agile he is. He looks safe under the high ball too. Havent seen enough of him to know how he is defensivley on the wing yet tho.

I know charlie isnt a mansour style winger which is fine.

I think he finished tries well this year. However alot of the tries his finished 90% of nrl wingers wouldve too. Maybe the slower ones like sauce mightve missed a few hes got but the stronger guys probably score one or two by stepping back in.

I think defensivley he has been smart and made good decisions on when to jam in. He has generally done pretty well on bigger men.

As for negatives. He doesnt look confident under the high ball. Hes let it bounce a few times and just looked a bit shaky.

He looks scared to run the ball or get involved. When he does he gets belted resulting in a slow play the ball. It really frustrated me last night when he batted the ball dead and JAC was the only chaser and 3m behind him. The ball was at a perfect height to catch. When a defender is sprinting at you like that its very easy to step one bloke as they literally have to adjust last second for which way you go. Weve seen brian too countless times fight to get out of our in goal but charlie just knocked it dead without even attrmpting to beat JAC... and the game was done. Wasnt going to cost us anything by taking a risk.

Its little things like that which have bee dissapointing. For all the talk of him being a speedstar we really havent seen it this year.

Playing on the wing is probably the easiest position to debut in. Hes been there all year yet theres others in the comp on the wing who have looked much better after only a few games.

The club obviously see him as potential at fb but i think the days of a fb like him are long gone. His similiar to a brett hodgson style who was great at backing up for offloads and only playing around the ruck.

Most fbs these days are 95 to 100kgs. Can make 200m a game and do a lot of the hard yards. Teddy turbo rts ponga etc etc. Staines isnt in that mould so really not sure where his future lies given he has struggled on the wing.

Other than catching a footy a few metres out, and putting the ball down over the line, unopposed, 14 times this season, he has offered very, very little. Its not going to change, because he is not a winger, never will be. The usual suspects copped the majority of criticism, perhaps rightly so, but there are questions that need to be asked of Staines going forward. The next time Edwards is out injured, I hope Charlie gets a run in his preferred position because he doesn’t have a future on the wing so we need to see whether he is actually capable of being an NRL quality fullback.

 

[DinkyDi]

Robert Jennings was unsighted during the second half, was he injured or just replaced?

 

[age.s]

He kicked munster. Deserves a week

Deserves a medal.

 

[age.s]

The club obviously see him as potential at fb but i think the days of a fb like him are long gone. His similiar to a brett hodgson style who was great at backing up for offloads and only playing around the ruck.

I think some criticism of Staines is fair in general, but I don't think this kind of fullback is long gone. Burton's break yesterday was a perfect example. Having an extremely quick fullback with good instincts around the ruck backs up that break and scores. It's been years since we've had a player who backs up breaks/half-breaks like that, generally due to a lack of speed in the team as a whole (also notable is that Tago was one of the only Panthers in the frame when Burton was tackled despite being a long way away when the break was made). Charlie can do that if given a chance to develop his instincts in the position, while also to my eye looking like our best FB option for chiming into a backline play.

Appreciate that he's looking suss under the high ball, but when Edwards is going through his current phase of the yips that hardly seems like a big tradeoff. Edwards is still doing decently on kick returns, but Charlie's speed will provide an advantage on a staggered line that isn't present on a play 1/2 when the line is set.

If there was a way for him to gain a little size/strength without sacrificing pace that would be ideal though.

 

[franklin2323]

g


Yeah he definitely can be down on confidence and have it show. I feel like the harder he tries sometimes the worse it gets for him. Like his defensive mistakes are often when he is getting off the line fast its not laziness or lack of effort he just cant' keep up with halves and centres, a team like melbourne would 100 percent picked that up in video.

We need to change it up for him, use him differently even if it is just temporary. Stints off the bench, stints in the middle...just do something differently so he can start to impact positively with out the mistakes and misses and penalties.

TPJ will be huge for giving Kikau a break he is best playing 50-60mins

 

[franklin2323]

I was gone a avoid it but since it's coming up. I think coaching is letting him down. We have two very skilful players on the right edge and no real plays to take advantage of it. Both Crichton and Staines have speed but they don't kick for them like the Storm do JAC for example. Staines is a good passer and even when at fullback you could see him quickly get to the outside and set up players. Given time he's the ball playing fullback we lack.

He had 4 hit ups on the weekend. Clearly isn't suitable to take kick returns so what is wrong with him when back there getting more involved? I doubt in opposed sessions at training he isn't getting involved. So why not in the game?

 

[franklin2323]

I think he's been doing well for a rookie. Generally defends well and makes the right decisions. Like @WestyLife said Ivan hasn't helped by manufacturing plays down that side. Critta looks great at times but he's not earning his massive pay cheque

That is Cleary's side though. So it isn't like we ignore it. Capewell can be a hog but they should be getting involved more that is on them

 

[franklin2323]

Only Martin, Leota, Sorensen, Hopgood, Tago and Eusinhuth appear to have escaped criticism on here after yesterday’s disappointment.

I thought Eusinhuth had a decent game, particularly given he hasn’t figured for a little while now.

This weeks team selection should be very interesting with Crichton now unavailable due to suspension.

The forwards were good.

 

[WestyLife]

He had 4 hit ups on the weekend. Clearly isn't suitable to take kick returns so what is wrong with him when back there getting more involved? I doubt in opposed sessions at training he isn't getting involved. So why not in the game?

It's still on the coach to address it and everyone has bad games. He had one hit up that was full speed and found his front because force = speed x mass or whatever and the defence couldn't dominate him. More of that is what Ivan should be telling him in video sessions. We also don't know if there's an effort to ease him through his first season due to the recurring hamstring injuries.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

He had 4 hit ups on the weekend. Clearly isn't suitable to take kick returns so what is wrong with him when back there getting more involved? I doubt in opposed sessions at training he isn't getting involved. So why not in the game?

Given that he takes on the line with all the power of a limp noodle, we were probably better off that he only tried it 4 times.

 

[franklin2323]

Given that he takes on the line with all the power of a limp noodle, we were probably better off that he only tried it 4 times.

I am not disputing that but how to get more involved is the question maybe him and Edwards switch so he can use his ball skills?