Round 22 Vs the Donkeys

[Westernised Panther]

katoa looks like he weighs 300 kilos

So does RCG

 

[franklin2323]

If Luai or Burton play instead of Maloney I think we do. They seem to add enough of what Cleary lacks without Cleary going missing. I wish I knew why it happens if it's a mental thing or something about Maloney's game but he absolutely negatively affects Cleary.

Broncos completed 12 more sets then us. Apart from Martin getting in the way of Maloney the halves didn't make the errors.

So still have the low completion rate. Maloney didn't miss 51 tackles himself. Nor did Cleary so likely still miss that many tackles.

Cleary is an average FGer but too many others that aren't FG standard so I can't even say without him we win

 

[The Realist]

a tackle katoa missed by the way.

Again why do the other forwards get a pass, but Katoa is supposed to take down a rampaging Haas down one on one?

The entire team played like shit with the exception of To'o but I was surprisingly disappointed by our props. As a unit they were not that good, the Brisbane middle was all over us. Tamou was plodding for the last 15 minutes, JFH had a decent game, good offensively but always seems to have a few more missed tackles than most elite props. RCG is a shell of his old self.

Really when it comes down to it, this is a very poorly coached side.

Too many players have that silly error in them, almost reliably one or two a game. That isn't so bad when it is a few players like that in a team but with us it is half the team regularly dropping the ball, or giving away a penalty down the opposition end/ on the 5th. This team is essentially rudderless and as was mentioned by the Channel 9 commentary team and others in this thread, we play FAR too flat. We played like this under Cleary 1.0, under Griffin (at least this playing flat was part of the Bash, Barge and Overwhelm philosophy) and now again under Cleary 2.0. This time though we don't have the class of Moylan at fullback or the freakishness of Peachy to mask our deficiencies.

 

[steve carter]

One side of him yes other side is 450 kilos

So does RCG

 

[Panfa]

Why wouldnt they play billy burns tonight instead of sione katoa makes no sense to me the guys leaving what benefit does that have for us going forward.

 

[Girds89]

It’s not like Katoa came on and started doing something differently from Kenny, he came on at the end of the game and Brisbane were clearly tired, plus we were all defending amazingly well until Haas strolled right through the defensive line, a tackle katoa missed by the way.

Yeah he did. He engaged the markers continuously. Not necessarily by running but he created indecision which is exactly how we got the momentum.

He doesn't just stand and pass like kenny. He is crafting and it makes defenders actually have to think. They dont know whether hes going to scoot or go left or right and he brings the forwards on to the ball.

Engaging the markers is what the best hooker in the games been doing for his whole career.

Again I cant believe the hate katoa cops on here. Would any of our players made a one on one with a storming haas?? Should katoa have been in a position where he had to make a one on one tackle with haas. No.

The reason we are so predictable in attack is cause literally every team in the comp knows kenny and egan just pick up and pass. No unpredictability. No engaging of the makers. Just get there line set for a backline play.

Having someone that can engage the makers than drags the 1 and 2 defenders on either side of the ruck in. Your always going to be starting your attacking plays in a way better position if you have the makers and the defenders around the ruck engaged as it stops the defense from already sliding.

Kenny and egan unfortunately dont engage anyone and it puts pressure on everyone outside them from the get go.

 

[Panfa]

Id move naden to fullback bring chrichton on the wing for mansour and put yeo in the centres edwards is cooked.

 

[Flashstep]

Yeah he did. He engaged the markers continuously. Not necessarily by running but he created indecision which is exactly how we got the momentum.

He doesn't just stand and pass like kenny. He is crafting and it makes defenders actually have to think. They dont know whether hes going to scoot or go left or right and he brings the forwards on to the ball.

Engaging the markers is what the best hooker in the games been doing for his whole career.

Again I cant believe the hate katoa cops on here. Would any of our players made a one on one with a storming haas?? Should katoa have been in a position where he had to make a one on one tackle with haas. No.

The reason we are so predictable in attack is cause literally every team in the comp knows kenny and egan just pick up and pass. No unpredictability. No engaging of the makers. Just get there line set for a backline play.

Having someone that can engage the makers than drags the 1 and 2 defenders on either side of the ruck in. Your always going to be starting your attacking plays in a way better position if you have the makers and the defenders around the ruck engaged as it stops the defense from already sliding.

Kenny and egan unfortunately dont engage anyone and it puts pressure on everyone outside them from the get go.

I agree with you on Egan and Kenny, teams have figured them out. Here’s the problem Katoa may look dangerous but if he ever got a string of games together (thankfully this won’t happen) teams would figure him out just as quickly, he’s just as one dimensional as Egan and Kenny

 

[age.s]

I don't know the guy, but it looks to me like Katoa's biggest problem is himself.

 

[kinghippo]

Again why do the other forwards get a pass, but Katoa is supposed to take down a rampaging Haas down one on one?

The entire team played like shit with the exception of To'o but I was surprisingly disappointed by our props. As a unit they were not that good, the Brisbane middle was all over us. Tamou was plodding for the last 15 minutes, JFH had a decent game, good offensively but always seems to have a few more missed tackles than most elite props. RCG is a shell of his old self.

Really when it comes down to it, this is a very poorly coached side.

Too many players have that silly error in them, almost reliably one or two a game. That isn't so bad when it is a few players like that in a team but with us it is half the team regularly dropping the ball, or giving away a penalty down the opposition end/ on the 5th. This team is essentially rudderless and as was mentioned by the Channel 9 commentary team and others in this thread, we play FAR too flat. We played like this under Cleary 1.0, under Griffin (at least this playing flat was part of the Bash, Barge and Overwhelm philosophy) and now again under Cleary 2.0. This time though we don't have the class of Moylan at fullback or the freakishness of Peachy to mask our deficiencies.

The flat play is partly due to the complete lack of speed in the team, nobody in our squad is running around anyone in any other backline.
Martin had a very poor game tonight and I hate to say it but Yeo is very average at the moment. Once again I think the coaches bench use was terrible and his forward rotation just out and out stupid.

 

[Dave's mate]

Truth is we don't deserve finals football

 

[The Realist]

The flat play is partly due to the complete lack of speed in the team, nobody in our squad is running around anyone in any other backline.
Martin had a very poor game tonight and I hate to say it but Yeo is very average at the moment. Once again I think the coaches bench use was terrible and his forward rotation just out and out stupid.

100% I have not witnessed a coach who uses his bench as poorly as Ivan Cleary. He selects bad benches then uses them even more poorly. Having multiple games with a 2nd hooker and a 5/8 was nuts. Multiple games where a player get little to no time.

Games where a forward is completely shot and is not interchanged out whilst on then bench is a guy who plays 10 odd minutes. Tonight Kikau and Tamou were completely out on their feet and were no substituted. Last for the last 3 weeks, Kenny has been dead by the somewhere between the 45-55 minute mark and stayed on for too long.

The reality is that Kikau is not an 80 minute forward. Tamou and even JFH play too many minutes whilst our bench props could use another 10-15 minutes each. We need 2 props, a second rower and utility on the bench (yes I know we had that tonight) Ideally we should have an 80 minute hooker so we could have 2 props, a second rower and an agile second rower who can shift into the centres and has a little bit of ball playing in him.

 

[OldPanther]

Broncos completed 12 more sets then us. Apart from Martin getting in the way of Maloney the halves didn't make the errors.

So still have the low completion rate. Maloney didn't miss 51 tackles himself. Nor did Cleary so likely still miss that many tackles.

Cleary is an average FGer but too many others that aren't FG standard so I can't even say without him we win

Yet we were still in a position to win it because there are thing they do well.

 

[tripster]

We were our own worst enemies tonight. The Broncos came out super fired up and when their pack is all firing it is hard for any team to contain them. What killed us was handing over so much possession against them. It meant we used up way too much energy.

In the first half you could tell our team was feeling under a lot of pressure (mostly the younger guys) - no doubt the occasion at Suncorpm knowing it was an important game for our finals chances, and the fact that the Broncos were hitting really hard all contributed to that. That meant we rushed things and made a lot of silly errors. If the team was a bit more experienced most of those mistakes wouldn't have been made - we would have played more calmly and with more patience and settled into a grind.

If we had managed to settle into a grind I think we could have beat them.

We did incredibly well to be down only 8-6 at half time given the amount of defending we had to do, but I think unfortunately it used up too much gas, and when we kept making mistakes in the second half, we killed our chances.

If Naden had grounded that ball (I reckon if they slowed it down to super slow motion and zoomed in they might have actually found that he did - the fact the video ref played it only at full speed was a bit odd), then the game would have probably been completely different.

Similarly I thought Kikau grounded the ball with his torso when Haas lost it, but that also wasn't checked.

If either of those things had happened we could have pulled off a (lucky) win against the run of play.

It is obviously disappointing given our finals chances now hang on a knifes edge, and probably depend on beating the Roosters, but I didn't see as much doom and gloom in the performance as some of you.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Id move naden to fullback bring chrichton on the wing for mansour and put yeo in the centres edwards is cooked.

Edwards is cooked?!

He’s been playing well lately, and now he’s cooked? Colour me puzzled.

And no to Yeo in the centres, his lateral movement isn’t good enough, caused To’o headaches on the wing with his slow shifting.

 

[tripster]

Someone must have had a quiet word with Klein. If anything, we got the better of it. Still, a binning in the 79th minute when the game is over doesn't really count.

Definitely agree with this. One thing we couldn't blame tonight was Klein. If anything we got the better run of the calls all night. Which is a rare feat up in Brisbane. Remarkable turn-a-round compared to what we normally cop when he referees us.

 

[OldPanther]

Definitely agree with this. One thing we couldn't blame tonight was Klein. If anything we got the better run of the calls all night. Which is a rare feat up in Brisbane. Remarkable turn-a-round compared to what we normally cop when he referees us.

He's normally fine. we haven't had the rough end of the penalties over his games. Like tonight they make too many errors. The Klein hates Panthers thing is a myth.

 

[Doddsy6988]

I have always been a fan of Yeo but he really needs to get an offload or something in his game - way too predictable

Also, MANSOUR needs to be a bench second rower, if he learns to hold on to the ball I think he will excel in this position.

We really need to sign someone like koraisau or Luke, someone with experience and a run in them.

Priority signings in my eyes are:
Koraisau/Luke/even Reynolds if cheap
Peachey for flair
Valentine Holmes (obviously dependant on NFL)

 

[martielang]

The momentum was in spite of Katoa’s inability to pass accurately out of dummy half and him being late to dummy half multiple times, despite being the only fresh player on the f**king field. Of the defensive collapse he was the primary contributor. The guy is f**ked and you’re all blind.

Kenny didn’t hit a target all night & created as little as he has the last 2 months. Katoas distribution is miles ahead & was again last night. He looked dangerous & gave us another outlet. He’s out of shape but that tends to happen when you’re told your no longer required after 2 months of the season & wont play another game of first grade for the club.

Katoa also the primary contributor for keeping them out when Isaako made a 90m run, made 2 or 3 great tackles on either side of the field, along with Leota. But that doesn’t fit your narrative yeh?

 

[herbert henry1908]

I have always been a fan of Yeo but he really needs to get an offload or something in his game - way too predictable

Also, MANSOUR needs to be a bench second rower, if he learns to hold on to the ball I think he will excel in this position.

We really need to sign someone like koraisau or Luke, someone with experience and a run in them.

Priority signings in my eyes are:
Koraisau/Luke/even Reynolds if cheap
Peachey for flair
Valentine Holmes (obviously dependant on NFL)

Could Mansour handle the defence in closer? Not sure. Plus we have a heap of back rowers.


Agree on hooker, but it’s also becoming apparent centre is a big issue.