Round 7 vs Broncos 2016 Game Discussion

[Sydney Knight]

Been on board since day 1 with the Knights the last 2 years have been tough but tonight really made me so embarrassed we were a joke of the nrl that field goal at the end done me I feel sorry for all the past players who wore the Knights jersey and gave 110%

like the highly paid players that lost 71-6 to the broncos

 

[Spot On]

The problem with the Knights has been the same for the last ten years- crap defensive structure. Watch them they come up in a line stop shuffle to the left or right, ending up stopping on the spot. The ball carrier is then running against a stationary line that is giving them a mile of room to move. Usually two things happen, the Knights make a arm tackle and then are carried a further 5 to 10 metres downfield, or they are on their back heals and are easy run around, especially Uate who has got the ability to always make the wrong decision (Uate just needs to make sure he tackles the person with the ball).

The other point is that the Knights use a lot of arms in tackles and don't drive enough with the shoulders.

How many times does the Knights force oppositions turn overs with hard hitting defence?
Crap defence gives away too much field position, the knights aren't good enough to give field position away so easily
More aggression with line speed, put presuure on the opposition limit attackers thinking time and drive with shoulders. Don't hug each other and be carried 10 metres further down field (adds up to fifty metres a set). Put them on the ground.
Remember Bennets defensive structure where just as bad. Remember we don't do the wrestle.

This is nail on the head stuff right here. I thought these things would change under Brown especially as he highlighted this problem in the media about the club.

 

[TheFrog]

The Knights were simply outclassed by a team full of elite players, and with a true value at least three times the Knights team. I thought your team tried their guts out, but handed over far too much possession. It could have been a lot worse than it was, had your players given up.

Rather like putting an A league also ran team up against Man U.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

Benji Marshall
2015
Try Assists:23
ARM:1213
LBs:5
LBAs:18
2014
Try Assists:13
ARMs:782
LBs:7
LBAs:12

Jarrod Mullen
2015
Try Assists: 7
ARM:543
LBs:1
LBAs:9
2014
Try Assists: 8
ARM:741
LBs:4
LBAs:7


Can't be bothered doing Hokkos but an overweight Benji still took a giant shit on Mullen after coming into a brand new team he'd never played with halfway through the 2014 season, the same year he was playing an entirely different game.

I noticed in those stats, you didn't include the amount of games that they played last year. Is it due to Mullen only playing 10 and that would not help your argument???

 

[Joel-22]

I noticed in those stats, you didn't include the amount of games that they played last year. Is it due to Mullen only playing 10 and that would not help your argument???

No, I couldn't find those stats to be honest, I was using the NRL website. I knew (and assumed everyone else on here would too) that Mullen only played a handful of games last season, which is partly why I included 2014 stats (I honestly can't remember how many games Mullen sat out that season).

However, it doesn't really matter because I did find that the most try assists Mullen has ever had in a single season is 20.

Yes that's right - an over-the-hill Benji racked up more try assists in 2015 than Mullen ever has in a single season.

Your move pal

 

[Spot On]

For the 500K a year you'd want at least 20 TA's a season. 25K a try assist. Great $$$$$.

7 or 8 try assists a season equates to 60 or 70K an assist. Effing insane.

 

[Swarzey]

10 vs 23. 16 vs 16 in 2014.

And again, Noname said it best, stats aren't telling you everything. Outside of Widdop and Marshall rarely have the Dragons scored points off the back of anyone else; the vast majority of their try assists come through two players. 19 try assists between Mullen and Roberts compared to the 30 between Widdop and Marshall. Sounds negative right? Let's look at who else scored. Compared to the 5 try assists between Dugan and Pete, the two Dragons centres in 2014, Gagai and Leilua dished up 14. The vast majority of those assists were born from Mullen or Roberts; just because it doesn't show up in the statistics, doesn't mean they didn't play any role. Let's go a bit further. Ah Mau and Thompson were St. George's most consistent backrowers in 2014. They provided ZERO try assists in comparison to the 6 between Rochow and Scott.

Why does any of that matter? Structure.

Statistics on an individual basis aren't going to tell you the structure of a side. It matters because the importance of Mullen's actions are different between Marshall's. His role in the team and what he needs to do on a game to game basis can't be compared and I'm just going off the back of try assists; I'm not going to go into line break and assists, runs etc because the statistics are going to be similar. It's going to be a rather even spread across more than just two players.

So you can throw whatever statistics out you wish, but there's so much you're either blatantly ignoring because it doesn't fit your narrative or you're just completely blind to.

 

[Zoidberg]

I just have 2 questions about the game as I haven't had a chance to see a replay yet.

1. On the Jack Reed knock back try, did the bronco look like he knocked it on initially? Close to?

2. When a bronco got injured and lost the ball from a kick return, and they stopped play, was it worth a penalty?

 

[Joel-22]

10 vs 23. 16 vs 16 in 2014.

And again, Noname said it best, stats aren't telling you everything. Outside of Widdop and Marshall rarely have the Dragons scored points off the back of anyone else; the vast majority of their try assists come through two players. 19 try assists between Mullen and Roberts compared to the 30 between Widdop and Marshall. Sounds negative right? Let's look at who else scored. Compared to the 5 try assists between Dugan and Pete, the two Dragons centres in 2014, Gagai and Leilua dished up 14. The vast majority of those assists were born from Mullen or Roberts; just because it doesn't show up in the statistics, doesn't mean they didn't play any role. Let's go a bit further. Ah Mau and Thompson were St. George's most consistent backrowers in 2014. They provided ZERO try assists in comparison to the 6 between Rochow and Scott.

Why does any of that matter? Structure.

Statistics on an individual basis aren't going to tell you the structure of a side. It matters because the importance of Mullen's actions are different between Marshall's. His role in the team and what he needs to do on a game to game basis can't be compared and I'm just going off the back of try assists; I'm not going to go into line break and assists, runs etc because the statistics are going to be similar. It's going to be a rather even spread across more than just two players.

So you can throw whatever statistics out you wish, but there's so much you're either blatantly ignoring because it doesn't fit your narrative or you're just completely blind to.

I agree with much (not all) that you've said and what's more is I agreed with what noname said.
I was simply refuting the accusation that I selectively chose stats, which is bullshit.
I'm not a Mullen hater nor am I a Benji lover. Gun to my head though, who do I think is the better player? Pftt you're f**king joking, I'd pick Benji everyday of the week. Objectively speaking Mullen is an injury prone mental midget with a fantastic long kicking game and solid defence.
I think Benji would look better outside of Hokko than Mullen due to the type of players they are.
Other than that, where are you getting those bolded numbers from?

 

[Swarzey]

https://www.totalfootystats.com.au/...ns/benji-marshall&disp_year=2014#.VxM-k_l96Uk
https://www.totalfootystats.com.au/...hts/Jarrod-Mullen&disp_year=2014#.VxM-svl96Ul

15 games for Marshall, not significant though.

 

[League_God]

Those stats are pretty impressive for Marshall. I understand what noname and Swarzey are saying though re: stats not telling the whole picture. My biggest issue with Mullen is his head. He still hasn't really addressed that. His game has improved a lot but unfortunately inside he's still the same 19 year old kid who debuted for NSW all those years ago. Unable to close a game out

 

[Swarzey]

And I'm not, or have I ever said that he doesn't have an issue with his mental capacity. I don't also disagree with a lot of the criticism, I just don't see a player on the market who would improve the side. The only solutions are basically the same problems with a fresh coat of paint.

 

[League_God]

I'm still willing to give Mullen and Hodkinson more time as f**king frustrating as it's been so far.
Regardless of everything that's been said in this forum, they're both solid players and far from our biggest problems.

We need a centre before we need a half

 

[slotmachine]

Yeah that. Ordinary, but no other options.

By the time we are semi-OK again Mullen will have moved on.

 

[Swarzey]

It would help if we had a spine that could stay together for longer than a week tbh.

 

[Noname36]

Yeah that. Ordinary, but no other options.

By the time we are semi-OK again Mullen will have moved on.

This is the crux of it for me. Sure, let's move Mullen on. Then what exactly? It's that last part I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around.

There's nobody to sign that would be an improvement (or that we could sign at least) and the likes of Lamb and Cogger, etc are still a long way off FG.

Do people think Hodko is capable of getting the job done without another half next to him or something? Saturday's game would suggest certainly not.

I am generally guilty of defending Mullo because I do think he's shouldered the majority of the blame for our poor seasons for years on the back of poor roster/club/player management however in reality the success of the side for mine is the most important thing. If I genuinely thought there was a realistic way we could move him on that would actually benefit the side I'd be the first wanting it. However all I ever hear are calls to move him on without any realistic options for the side after that.

 

[slotmachine]

If he's holding back a red-hot Lamb or Cogger in 2018 then the "sack Mullen" cries might have some weight.

 

[Mr_Knightside]

This is the crux of it for me. Sure, let's move Mullen on. Then what exactly? It's that last part I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around.

There's nobody to sign that would be an improvement (or that we could sign at least) and the likes of Lamb and Cogger, etc are still a long way off FG.

Do people think Hodko is capable of getting the job done without another half next to him or something? Saturday's game would suggest certainly not.

I am generally guilty of defending Mullo because I do think he's shouldered the majority of the blame for our poor seasons for years on the back of poor roster/club/player management however in reality the success of the side for mine is the most important thing. If I genuinely thought there was a realistic way we could move him on that would actually benefit the side I'd be the first wanting it. However all I ever hear are calls to move him on without any realistic options for the side after that.

Great post, agree completely, it's not like there is a better option out there so we probably have to play with the hand we're dealt at this stage.

 

[Tom155]

Pauli Pauli facing a week out for a high tackle

https://twitter.com/FOXSportsNews/status/721893585696608256

 

[Spot On]

Wow. Was that tackle really worthy of a grade 2 charge? I'd have to see it again.

One thing is for certain, the refs don't miss us on the field (except when we have 12 in the defensive line, multiple times) nor does the match review committee or the judiciary.

Ah well, another opportunity to blood someone else this week.