Round three vs The Storm

[betcats]

There is no doubt Bellamy uses and even innovates those dirty tactics, and like I said a few weeks ago one of the tackles they came up with in Melbourne broke someones neck 2 rounds into a season.

The Kafusi incident was an intentional elbow to the head 100 percent he saw the chance and he belted a bloke with a bad track record of head knocks, I wouldnt be surprised if Bellyache and Kafusi discussed putting one on Mattersons head if the chance came up.

Oh and surprise surprise Bellamy doesnt want more sin bins and send offs because that is the one thing that will actually hurt teams who consistently using dirty tactics.

 

[Soren Lorenson]

I genuinely hope you blokes do some damage to the Storm's season tonight. Go well Panthers.

 

[Pomoz]

I fully agree with everything Kent said.

It is an interesting discussion. Remembering that Craig Bellamy played first grade himself, I don't think for a minute he wants to hurt and maim players. I think when he introduced wrestling techniques in the way he did (not the first, but certainly the most serious), I think the coaches overlooked the fact that the techniques were invented in a sport that is essentially man versus man. One on one. I think he completely underestimated how those techniques could hurt people because football is not man on man, it is a dynamic contest with many moving parts that are difficult to predict how they may mesh together.

When you place somebody in a lock invented in aikido, jiu jitsu, or, WWF generally, it would be perfectly safe if it wasn't for the fact that one, two or even four other 100kg blokes join in the tackle. Now the person placing the lock on the attacking player has no control when the other players push and pull from different angles and bring their weight and strength to bear. That is why they are so dangerous.

I cringe when I see a player put a head lock on around another player's neck. It just takes somebody to come running in from the side and binding on to the holding player and pushing to cause severe injury. I would make it an instant penalty, the moment an arm goes around the neck, it has no place in football.

That said, it would be good if he actually acknowledged when a technique from one of his players causes an injury and he said something like "I will tell my players to stop using that technique, I think it might be dangerous". Instead he waits for the league to outlaw them and then says "we will follow the new guidelines".

 

[betcats]

The other thing with Ju Jitsu and wrestling is people don't fight each other who are different sizes or different levels in ability. And its done with a ref very closely watching the two fighters. If properly trained wrestlers or Ju Jitsu martial artists need that kind of supervision to keep it safe then teaching grapple holds to untrained footy players and letting them use it in game situations is insane.

 

[Jane Murray]

I must firstly start off as saying that I'm not a betting person, can someone, please, explain to me the betting odds? Apparently, the Panthers are favourites, however, I just don't understand what I have previously stated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Girds89]

It is an interesting discussion. Remembering that Craig Bellamy played first grade himself, I don't think for a minute he wants to hurt and maim players. I think when he introduced wrestling techniques in the way he did (not the first, but certainly the most serious), I think the coaches overlooked the fact that the techniques were invented in a sport that is essentially man versus man. One on one. I think he completely underestimated how those techniques could hurt people because football is not man on man, it is a dynamic contest with many moving parts that are difficult to predict how they may mesh together.

When you place somebody in a lock invented in aikido, jiu jitsu, or, WWF generally, it would be perfectly safe if it wasn't for the fact that one, two or even four other 100kg blokes join in the tackle. Now the person placing the lock on the attacking player has no control when the other players push and pull from different angles and bring their weight and strength to bear. That is why they are so dangerous.

I cringe when I see a player put a head lock on around another player's neck. It just takes somebody to come running in from the side and binding on to the holding player and pushing to cause severe injury. I would make it an instant penalty, the moment an arm goes around the neck, it has no place in football.

That said, it would be good if he actually acknowledged when a technique from one of his players causes an injury and he said something like "I will tell my players to stop using that technique, I think it might be dangerous". Instead he waits for the league to outlaw them and then says "we will follow the new guidelines".

Spot on. He'd never tell his players to injure someone. But his tactics that he has introduced definitely makes him accountable.

 

[betcats]

Spot on. He'd never tell his players to injure someone. But his tactics that he has introduced definitely makes him accountable.

What is the point of an ankle twist? Only to injure. I think he would have no problem with guys getting injured by these tactics. Encouraging chicken wings and ankle twists is encouraging guys to injure players. Bellamy is not stupid and he has been doing it for 15 years, he knows players will get injured.

 

[betcats]

Ju Jitsu and wrestling are combat sports, the holds are designed to cause pain and injury. These holds are all designed to put pressure on joints and limbs, apply enough pressure and injury occurs every single time.

 

[snickers007]

The Kafusi incident was an intentional elbow to the head 100 percent he saw the chance and he belted a bloke with a bad track record of head knocks, I wouldnt be surprised if Bellyache and Kafusi discussed putting one on Mattersons head if the chance came up.

This kind of conspiracy theory isn't healthy. But let's consider it to be true for a minute.

Does Bellamy only trust a few 'career Storm' players to execute his hits? Or is it an open secret? How do you think former Storm players feel about coming up against their old club? Do they fear for their safety, knowing that their opposition are deliberately trying to injure them? Do they get on the front foot, and try and injure them first?

My take: There are enough players who have come and gone through the Storm squad that a systematic approach to injuring opposition players would have been revealed. Kaifusi is a thug, that plays hard, and got this one wrong. Bellamy likes his players to play a naturally aggresive game - and is quite happy for other teams to play the same. He's against more sin-binning and send offs because that places too much power in the hands of the referees, who routinely get this stuff wrong.

 

[betcats]

This kind of conspiracy theory isn't healthy. But let's consider it to be true for a minute.

Does Bellamy only trust a few 'career Storm' players to execute his hits? Or is it an open secret? How do you think former Storm players feel about coming up against their old club? Do they fear for their safety, knowing that their opposition are deliberately trying to injure them? Do they get on the front foot, and try and injure them first?

My take: There are enough players who have come and gone through the Storm squad that a systematic approach to injuring opposition players would have been revealed. Kaifusi is a thug, that plays hard, and got this one wrong. Bellamy likes his players to play a naturally aggresive game - and is quite happy for other teams to play the same. He's against more sin-binning and send offs because that places too much power in the hands of the referees, who routinely get this stuff wrong.

I think Bellamy would get to know the blokes who are dirty and willing to do it and it would just become the norm for Bellamy have those talks with grubs like Kafusi. Far to many instances for this to be just be the odd grubb acting without any encouragement.

I dont understand the idea that because bellamy played footy he wouldnt intentionally encourage grubby tactics, you guys think every NRL player currently is clean? None of the 500 odd current nrl blokes try to hurt eachother? Please, there are guys trying to hurt each other every game and back when Bellamy played the game was much dirtier.

 

[The_Frog]

None of the 500 odd current nrl blokes try to hurt eachother?

Try to hurt? Lots. Try to injure? Not lots but they're out there.

 

[betcats]

Try to hurt? Lots. Try to injure? Not lots but they're out there.

Its a fine line though between trying to hurt someone and trying to injure someone though isnt it?

I get what you are saying though, there would not be many players who would want to cause long term injuries but i think there would be plenty of would be happy to put their opposition out with a sore ankle or even a concussion.

 

[WestyLife]

Ju Jitsu and wrestling are combat sports, the holds are designed to cause pain and injury. These holds are all designed to put pressure on joints and limbs, apply enough pressure and injury occurs every single time.

It's more about compliance through pain. Similar to what police do when arresting. They don't necessarily want to injure but you can manipulate a person if you cause enough discomfort.

 

[betcats]

It's more about compliance through pain. Similar to what police do when arresting. They don't necessarily want to injure but you can manipulate a person if you cause enough discomfort.

Yeah but what happens if they dont comply or submit?

 

[WestyLife]

Yeah but what happens if they dont comply or submit?

Obviously injury can happen but it's the difference between hurting and injuring. I love that Kent went off on them just explaining how I see the difference.

 

[betcats]

Obviously injury can happen but it's the difference between hurting and injuring. I love that Kent went off on them just explaining how I see the difference.

Mate if someone has an armbar or a kimura(chicken wing) on someone and the person keeps struggling then an injury will definitely occur. Using these kinds of holds in a rugby league game is extremely reckless and guaranteed to cause injuries IMO.

 

[WestyLife]

Mate if someone has an armbar or a kimura(chicken wing) on someone and the person keeps struggling then an injury will definitely occur. Using these kinds of holds in a rugby league game is extremely reckless and guaranteed to cause injuries IMO.

Agreed. We are just talking about intent of coaches though right? My assumption is they see it as a good way to win the ruck by manipulating the ball carrier. I'd say the idea of injury never enters their mind, which would be part of the problem it's about getting the competitive advantage and not thinking beyond that to player welfare.

 

[betcats]

Agreed. We are just talking about intent of coaches though right? My assumption is they see it as a good way to win the ruck by manipulating the ball carrier. I'd say the idea of injury never enters their mind, which would be part of the problem it's about getting the competitive advantage and not thinking beyond that to player welfare.

I was talking about Bellamys intent not coaches generally. There is no way bellamy doesnt see the risk of injury in these moves IMO, they are designed to cause injury and he is smart. Besides that they are being used in game situations that are far less controlled than any BJJ or wrestling match.

 

[WestyLife]

I was talking about Bellamys intent not coaches generally. There is no way bellamy doesnt see the risk of injury in these moves IMO, they are designed to cause injury and he is smart. Besides that they are being used in game situations that are far less controlled than any BJJ or wrestling match.

There's a difference between intentionally doing it to hurt and taking the risk that someone might get hurt if things are pushed too far.

 

[Kilkenny]

Paul Kent was 100% correct in the Craig Bellamy and the Storm have basically been responsible for introducing all the illegal holds. They have been a blight on the game.