Rugby league claims viewing win over AFL

[Loudstrat]

And you know this from Bangladesh? :lol:

 

[Perth Red]

The ability to host 9 teams in one city has been artificially maintained by pokie machine funding, up to now. Both the AFL and NRL clubs money trees in this respect are drying up and if AFL clubs with $8.1mill grants and 30,000+ spectators can't remain financially viable what chance NRL clubs?

They say it takes $15mill a year to run a club. That will be increasing year on year and there is little hope the next TV deal will deliver an increase of $2-4million per club per year to cover the pokie incomes clubs have been relying on.

AFL currently has the money to bankroll failing clubs, NRL doesn't and that will mean the demise of some over the next decade. Sad but inevitable.

 

[Loudstrat]

Pokie incomes are not going to dissapear. Yes, there is a tax that has eaten into profits. No, it isn't a death knell. Clubs can operate on less than $15 million, and many have survived on much less. Besides, AFL has a bigger cap, therefore more expenses. And their pokie machine income would be much less.

It is not inevitable that Sydney clubs will die - these predictions arose during SL. The only club that died happened to have a massive expense blowout due to inclement weather. So these laborious 12 + years of deathriding are proving to be fruitless.

Some clubs may fall over. Cronulla is the most likely, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it. They have been surviving on a shoestring for decades - they are experts at it.

Take my advice, stop deathriding Sydney clubs and realise, as David Gallop does, that they are very important to the comp and, despite not having $6 million pumped into them by a senile old media mogul, will most likely be around for a very very long time.

 

[Ray Mosters]

People throw the idea of "viability" around with some really dickie logic.

Like "Melbourne are currently spending 6 million more a year than they are earning...without that 6 million they arent viable."

And "if AFL clubs with $8.1mill grants and 30,000+ spectators can't remain financially viable what chance NRL clubs?"

Its simple really: Sydney NRL clubs arent trying to run Melbourne AFL clubs, the scale of thier running costs are totally different.

Look you really dont need much to be viable... any club has the ability to cut spending hard to survive... OK they will sacrifice some competitveness for the duration, but so what? Every club would rather survive than match the Broncos for spending, and it doesent mean that that cant change as fortunes change, and it doesent mean that you cant spend more cleverly and get good results...

This idea that sydney clubs folding is a fait accompli is just stupidity, even if there was total ambivalence from the NRL to clubs folding (which there would NEVER be) there are ways to survive on low crowds and less money.

For a club to fold requires alot of things to go really wrong...the first being the clubs finances being totally mismanaged into serious debt. You honestly dont need much to be "viable", as long as you are half way decently managed.

"Competitive" is something else entirely. That DOES require a fair bit of cash, but we could happily survive with all our Sydney clubs, even if we had a few more Cronullas

 

[LeagueXIII]

The idea that league will be better off without certain Sydney clubs is rubbish.

To think clubs will sit back whilst Leagues club grants shrink is rubbish, they will replace this loss of income via other streams eg. investing in property that brings a steady return as Cronulla have done.

 

[Ray Mosters]

The idea that league will be better off without certain Sydney clubs is rubbish.

To think clubs will sit back whilst Leagues club grants shrink is rubbish, they will replace this loss of income via other streams eg. investing in property that brings a steady return as Cronulla have done.

If it were really that easy to generate millions in income they would have been doing it alot earlier...these are football clubs, not investment houses.

There is a reason they just take league clubs and benefactor cash and dont go out and make their own money outside of football...its very difficult to do.

Quite simply some will be successful but im thinking most wont be, and those that wont be, will just have to cut their spending, let a star or two go, reduce the coaching staff...whatever.

All in all they are on a hiding to nothing, they should be and are working on increasing their football-based income, because this is exactly where they excel... basically, they need to work on 5 areas: sponsorship, merchandise, memberships, memberships and memberships.

In fact im of the opinion that football clubs just shouldnt be trying to make alot of money outside of football unless they have a decent surplus, and then only risking that.

Because brain dead ex-footballer-administrators pushing football clubs into debt trying to make a quid off property or the stock market is a recipe for one thing... folding football clubs.

 

[seanoff]

Look you really dont need much to be viable... any club has the ability to cut spending hard to survive... OK they will sacrifice some competitveness for the duration, but so what? Every club would rather survive than match the Broncos for spending, and it doesent mean that that cant change as fortunes change, and it doesent mean that you cant spend more cleverly and get good results...

This idea that sydney clubs folding is a fait accompli is just stupidity, even if there was total ambivalence from the NRL to clubs folding (which there would NEVER be) there are ways to survive on low crowds and less money.

For a club to fold requires alot of things to go really wrong...the first being the clubs finances being totally mismanaged into serious debt. You honestly dont need much to be "viable", as long as you are half way decently managed.

"Competitive" is something else entirely. That DOES require a fair bit of cash, but we could happily survive with all our Sydney clubs, even if we had a few more Cronullas

but this leads into a death spiral.

club isn't competitive, no-one goes to watch, no one wants to sponsor the club, the clubs cuts more costs because their income falls even more, less competitive, less go to watch etc etc etc

and who wants a whole bunch of uncompetitive scrubbers. the EPL is great for the supporters of the big 4, f**ked for everyone else. they have no hope of winning anything.

compare that to the NFL, very competitive and engineered to be so. Massive crowds, huge TV, massive revenue.

The knock on the NBA is that it favours the big market teams, and "superstar" calls. thus crowds and TV are not massive and the perception in the smaller markets is that the NBA only really cares for Lakers, Boston, NY, Chicago or superstars who continually get terrible and occasionally bordering of game fixing calls.


the NRL, (or whatever they call it next) needs to try and follow that NFL model where the fans have some expectation that they'll be competitive, if not now, reasonably quickly. which the NRL has done well to date. BUT If you remove the hope, you'll remove the interest. Sydney is a notoriously tough market with lots of fairweather fans. it would be folly to have a set of teams that had no hope. Who'd watch. not me, that's for sure and i wouldn't be robsinson crusoe.

 

[Loudstrat]

No they don't. The Salary Cap spreads the talent beutifully. A season ago, Cronulla were top of the table, and without the Bird drama, probably would have made the GF.

We3 need to stop worrying about what the NFL or AFL are doing, and be happy with what we have - the most credible admin running the most credible sport in Australia.

If there wasn't a population of paranoid wankers saying "we must expand or we will die" we wouldn't have these conversations.

 

[The Tank]

My arse most games they would have been lucky too have 5000 there.

http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2009.html

 

[jasonstevenswedgie]

5 of the worst drawing crowds for the season.

 

[jasonstevenswedgie]

The publicly listed club, which had a turnover of $25.6million in 2008

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,,26284807-23214,00.html

Clubs can operate on less than $15 million

Well considering they banked 2m in the same period i would assume it takes a little more than 15m to run a good football team

 

[Ray Mosters]

We need to stop worrying about what the NFL or AFL are doing, and be happy with what we have - the most credible admin running the most credible sport in Australia.

????????????????

What the f**k are you talking about? An admin that is co-selected by the broadcast media corporation is not credible

 

[Loudstrat]

Disagree. Might not be the bees knees, but
1) It presides over one of 2 growing elite codes (with soccer)
2) Has taken TV viewing audiences to No. 1 of all codes.
3) Isn't banking it's future on throwing millions at 2 new teams that no one wants
4) Doesn't bank it's future on how many players it can pinch from a rival code
5) Doesn't institute a new team that falls over before season 1

Yes it can be better. But by being slow to react, at least it hasn't rushed into money squandering practices like AFL and Union.

 

[Nerd]

If there wasn't a population of paranoid wankers saying "we must expand or we will die" we wouldn't have these conversations.

Not all people that want the NRL to exand are wankers nor paranoid. These same people don't necessarily want Sydney teams to be cut either.
Stop generalising.

 

[Loudstrat]

I want the NRL to expand. I don't want any team - Sydney or non - to die. Sadly, many do. It's to these that I address my comments.

 

[Bluebags1908]

proof? Can you name any city in the world that has nine teams in the top flight of its sport, let alone nine that are financially doing very well. There are only two sports and two cities where this is reality and they are both have clubs that are seriously financially struggling.

Sport is business now and like any business if you open too many outlets too close together there simple isn't enough revenue to sustain them.

Before you gleefully start bagging 9 Sydney teams, try getting ONE profitable NRL club in Perth before you open your mouth. Talk about calling the kettle black!

 

[Perth Red]

give us a shot and we will!

 

[Loudstrat]

Just like last time?

Serve your pennance for shafting the code so that you learn the RL code of honour first!

 

[bobmar28]

Disagree. Might not be the bees knees, but
1) It presides over one of 2 growing elite codes (with soccer)
2) Has taken TV viewing audiences to No. 1 of all codes.
3) Isn't banking it's future on throwing millions at 2 new teams that no one wants
4) Doesn't bank it's future on how many players it can pinch from a rival code
5) Doesn't institute a new team that falls over before season 1

Yes it can be better. But by being slow to react, at least it hasn't rushed into money squandering practices like AFL and Union.

Good points. Gallop might be carefully weighing up all options without shouting from the rooftops like Demetriou.

 

[Perth Red]

Just like last time?

Serve your pennance for shafting the code so that you learn the RL code of honour first!

just like the Gold coast? good job you weren't making the decison on letting the Titans in if your criteria is what happened 12 years ago in the most turbulent and fricked up time for the sport ever.

12 year is a long time and Perth is a very different city. It's funny though cause I do agree with you that the NRL and RL in Perth needs some major improvements to make the Reds a success. I am not demanding a team now, I am demanding a plan for a team in the future. Very different things.

ps code of honour? RL? now I know your taking the pish!