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Rumours and Stuff

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,088
^^^^ By the way, WTF happened to Chee-Kam ? He was literally their best player not too long ago.
637366884687350253__fe4b0cb9-31d5-44d4-a3e7-212050e038ad.png
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,311
If a player leaves because they want to know who the coach is, that’s a demand.

And if you actually think that’s how the negotiation will go down then yes players will leave. But in reality the players know BA is unsigned beyond next season already, they know furtherance of his tenure is probably reliant on results next season but they also know there’s a finite amount of coaches who the club can and would hire if they replace him. Some of them from having the same managers or just through office gossip will even know of coaches who have approached or been approached. Heck some of the senior players may even be directly asked to comment on potential replacements, because 100% in the off-season wrap up, they will be asked about BAs performance this season/plan next season.
The only time they’ll leave when coaching uncertainty is the main driver is because they do not like the manner the club is doing the change management, they do not like the potential replacement or it’s a Skeletor/Dawius symbiosis. Otherwise they are just leaving to go to chase success or dollars.

Is it more ideal to have your coach locked up before your players? Probably in most cases.
Will players not sign with us just because we haven’t confirmed a coach? Probably harder but there’ll always be bigger factors.
Is it madness to think signing any one player at the moment is more important than the decision on who the coach will be going forward? 100%. People have been whinging about the coaching since 2018.

Just weigh up how many and which players you’d let leave because they don’t know who the coach will be against each potential 2023 coach. That’d be a metric I’d use in the timing of my decision.

That all said, I think the story I heard regarding our next coach seems more and more likely.

What story and who?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,088
We have to many players come from our nursery who never play for us, but go on to play for other clubs
Clubs without juniors recruit where the juniors are. Why would they do otherwise? It's not like we can stop them. Can you imagine someone trying to tell @hindy111 he can only do electrician work in his local area? Sydney is a big place with a lot of people selling hand wired amplifiers, and a lot of NRL clubs competing for Sydney local juniors.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,088
I believe we lost juniors to Manly because they hired the head of Westfield sports high Rugby League department l as a coach in their junior system. He obviously got in the players ears and the rest is history.
Who from our club is responsible for hiring these merkins?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,088
I mean it's not like we will go out and hire Maguire as our next coach, right? We aren't that basket case club anymore. The players should be aware and their managers told to take a breath. We are an elite club now
If we're an elite club doesn't that mean Maguire should be able to win a premiership here?
 

Cloeel

Juniors
Messages
176
Yeah thanks mate. I get it. We have been at it for a while now. When do you think we will shed the mediocrity? I mean how long do you think these steps will take to reach high performance right across the whole organisation?

Me I think it isn't all that hard once you have a quality board and management team and stability, which we have had for a few years now. Then it isn't that hard to start clearing out the dead wood below and refresh it with the best around from either within or outside.

It shouldn't be all that hard to identify who the better junior developers, scouts or coaches are should it? I mean many of these people have been doing their jobs for different clubs for many years or decades even. People talk and know one another and if you have been around the game for a little bit, you would know who the better operators are and start from there, wouldn't you? How long should that take? I myself think no more then a year, once I got my feet under the table.

I'm not talking about head coach or even assistant coach stuff here, but junior level staff and systems that need to be addressed properly. Hell the competition shouldn't be all that hard to get better people in since so many of our NRL clubs have and do neglect this side of the game as we all know and just try and buy their way out of trouble. We are one of the strongest junior nurseries in the league that I am sure if we resourced it right and asked some of the better operators to be part of, they would jump at the chance.

So why is it taking so long to get it at the level that would make it the envy of all the league? You know, like the Panthers one is right now. Time is not our problem. Identifying who or what the problem is correctly and then hiring the right person/s to take over and implement is.


It all depends on your definition of mediocrity and High performance.

Is that making the top 4 at an average of 3/5 years? and the years we don't; at least making the top 8?

Is it blooding 6 young guns (potential rookies of the year) on average every 3 years?

It is hard to gage everyones interpretation and expectations on the above. As long as we are making sustainable steps in the right direction and improving across all critical areas year after year then I am content.

In regards to Penrith; yes they seem to have done a good job. But lets see where they are in 5 years time. This will determine how sustainable the foundations are with in the organisation.

In my opinion the Storm are ahead of Roosters, Panthers and South Sydney.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,311
Yeah player managers will use it. But it’s only an issue if other clubs convince the player it’s an issue

You would think that it would only be convincing if their money offer was greater then ours.

Who leave a top 4-6 team on the improve and stable right across the board for another team on similar money unless there are personal reasons?

Remember I don't think any of our players are currently being targeted by the Storm or the Roosters who would be the only 2 teams that would look more favourable then ours.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,749
What story ?
Pretty sure I’ve relayed it previously.
Carr to takeover head coach role with oversight by BA. Except its likely Carr would then be under immense pressure as BA may decide at some point to retry his hand at coaching.
This supposedly is more or less the setup at Scum with the other Bellamy being their Ryan Carr in this scenario.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
61,236
Yea 3 current teams have the greatest players of all time lol and So what? Manly and Newcastle had Ponga and Turbo before their current coaches got there. Who is the Titans goat? Fifita? Haha please. Even South’s have improved from Maguires last couple of years there.

So in the last 3 years out of the current top 8, Storm and Roosters aren’t really looking for new coaches and have had premiership success, Penrith, Souths, Newcastle, Manly and the Titans have demonstrated improvement since getting a new coach and that leaves Parra who have plateaued with their current coach.
You don't think 2021 Eels are a better side than 2019/2020 ?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,088
But what I loved about the improvement in his game the most towards the end of the season is that he started to run into the space to draw and pass and took the line on much better then before because of it.
This coincided with him moving into the middle, with Moses generally outside him on the right. He's stronger than Moses, so he's better able to go right to the line before passing the ball, and if nothing's on he can dig in and is a better chance of getting a quick play-the-ball. Like Cleary without the kicking game.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,749
You would think that it would only be convincing if their money offer was greater then ours.

Who leave a top 4-6 team on the improve and stable right across the board for another team on similar money unless there are personal reasons?

Remember I don't think any of our players are currently being targeted by the Storm or the Roosters who would be the only 2 teams that would look more favourable then ours.
Yeah I was talking specifically to a player leaving because we couldn’t tell him who the coach would be. That’s only an issue if someone convinces him it’s an issue. The 5 teams above us on ladder might, but really the player would more be leaving to chase success. A player isn’t going to fall for it from a team below us, they’d only sign with them for more money (or opportunity in the case of some of the lower squad members)
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
14,398
You would think that it would only be convincing if their money offer was greater then ours.

Who leave a top 4-6 team on the improve and stable right across the board for another team on similar money unless there are personal reasons?

Remember I don't think any of our players are currently being targeted by the Storm or the Roosters who would be the only 2 teams that would look more favourable then ours.
I'm surprised that we don't hear much about anyone targeting pappas. Even Roosters.

The benchies might leave for a starting role.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,088
So which club has changed coaches for the better ? You could argue that Penrith chopping Hook was the right move. Any others ? Storm and Roosters don't have itchy feet. Broncos blamed their failure on Bennett, but in hindsight, was it Bennett or just a lack of a GOAT ?

View attachment 54196
Have Souths gone any better under Bennett than under Seibold? If they lose this weekend the answer is no.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,749
Remember I don't think any of our players are currently being targeted by the Storm or the Roosters who would be the only 2 teams that would look more favourable then ours.
Out of the coaching uncertainty, and it’s less the uncertainty as the potential of BA leaving, the only player I am worried about is Penisini. And I think he is contracted through 2023.
He will be targeted for sure.
 
Messages
4,465
Pretty sure I’ve relayed it previously.
Carr to takeover head coach role with oversight by BA. Except its likely Carr would then be under immense pressure as BA may decide at some point to retry his hand at coaching.
This supposedly is more or less the setup at Scum with the other Bellamy being their Ryan Carr in this scenario.
This is ideal and the sort of succession planning that does not happen enough in RL. Of course it depends on Carr being up to the job but he has some good reviews from what I have heard. He was doing well with a very young reserve grade team.
 

Gazzamatta

First Grade
Messages
8,829
If we lose Marata for example, he'll be going to play under Nathan Brown. So we know for sure it's not about the coach.
In Maratas case it could be,
Am I a centre
Am I an edge forward
Am I a middle
Am I a benchie
Am I a starter?
And wtf is Matto on over twice my wage?
 

Gazzamatta

First Grade
Messages
8,829
Out of the coaching uncertainty, and it’s less the uncertainty as the potential of BA leaving, the only player I am worried about is Penisini. And I think he is contracted through 2023.
He will be targeted for sure.
Well he and his bestie have playing together as one of their goals.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,416
Yeah player managers will use it. But it’s only an issue if other clubs convince the player it’s an issue
If a player leaves because they want to know who the coach is, that’s a demand.

And if you actually think that’s how the negotiation will go down then yes players will leave. But in reality the players know BA is unsigned beyond next season already, they know furtherance of his tenure is probably reliant on results next season but they also know there’s a finite amount of coaches who the club can and would hire if they replace him. Some of them from having the same managers or just through office gossip will even know of coaches who have approached or been approached. Heck some of the senior players may even be directly asked to comment on potential replacements, because 100% in the off-season wrap up, they will be asked about BAs performance this season/plan next season.
The only time they’ll leave when coaching uncertainty is the main driver is because they do not like the manner the club is doing the change management, they do not like the potential replacement or it’s a Skeletor/Dawius symbiosis. Otherwise they are just leaving to go to chase success or dollars.

Is it more ideal to have your coach locked up before your players? Probably in most cases.
Will players not sign with us just because we haven’t confirmed a coach? Probably harder but there’ll always be bigger factors.
Is it madness to think signing any one player at the moment is more important than the decision on who the coach will be going forward? 100%. People have been whinging about the coaching since 2018.

Just weigh up how many and which players you’d let leave because they don’t know who the coach will be against each potential 2023 coach. That’d be a metric I’d use in the timing of my decision.

That all said, I think the story I heard regarding our next coach seems more and more likely.

Demand? It’s about knowing who your “future boss” is….the direction of teams playing style….etc etc

You really reckon players don’t care about who the coach is?

additionally why wouId we even want to re-sign any of our players without the input of the new coach if BA is moved on….gee how professional is that. Not giving the new coach the option of putting his own squad together.

direction for 2023 needs to be determined ASAP….
 

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