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Rumours and Stuff

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,319
Clubs without juniors recruit where the juniors are. Why would they do otherwise? It's not like we can stop them. Can you imagine someone trying to tell @hindy111 he can only do electrician work in his local area? Sydney is a big place with a lot of people selling hand wired amplifiers, and a lot of NRL clubs competing for Sydney local juniors.

We are talking about NRL juniors here mate not the best electrician in the country that is in demand not only domestically, but internationally and world renown.

Get a grip pal. Footy players are a dime a dozen. @hindy111 is a one of a kind electrical maestro genius and everyone knows it. Demand has been at fever pitch since he was 12, in long pant, and he slipped on his first pair of rubber shoes.

As for our juniors getting poached, like I said, if we set it up with the right scouts and development officers and systems in place, we would lose very few if any of the real good ones that we wanted. The only ones that may sneak through should be the late bloomer, or personal reasons type. Otherwise we keep them ALL.

No kid leaves and goes to out of the area if we look after him. Why would you? They love playing at home and with their mates. We just have to make sure that we recognise them and keep on them so they know we value them. Most of the kids that I am seeing that come back to bite us have been the Schuster type, where we neglected them and it was obvious that they were the best in their age group coming through. That should NEVER happen. That is a weakness in our people and a breakdown in our systems.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,138
It’s not what the players demand, it’s them knowing what the future holds so they can make a decision.

Eels - Drown/Gutho/Mahoney/Paulo/Marata/papa, we really want you to sign for 2023, here is our offer.

Player - who is the coach?

Eels - don’t know, haven’t decided

Player - when will a a decision be made

Eels - soon

Player - If BA isn’t staying, who is the club looking at

eels - don’t know

player - well I wouId at least like to know before deciding on my future for the next 3 tears

eels - we will let you know soon

player - well I have a really good offer and I need to decide in the next 2 weeks. I really want to know who the coach is

eels - a decision won’t be made in 2 weeks. Does it really matter if you don’t know who the coach is ? J

player - FFS

If madness to think the club will be able to re-sign players without confirming the coach.
I'm sure we already have options for 2023, including re-signing Arthur's. I'd say there's no chance we will go into the pre-season without our 2023 coach sorted.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,319
Who from our club is responsible for hiring these merkins?

Well whoever it is is doing a terrible job. I mean it is the premier Ruby League school in the State. So if the head of their league department is for hire, he should be in our pocket. No ifs or buts. It is our freakin backyard. Not Manlys. We seem to just bend over way to often and cop it right up the you know what without even so much of a whimper or a bite on the pillow.

I don't like being the bottom. Time to swing our massive titanium hammer and do some bleeding damage.
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,427
Seriously, that would only happen in a serious way at a crappy club, with weak management, a weak roster and a history of going from one bad coach to another. We are none of those things now. Our management should easily know how to play this. Don't be a sucker to the click bait of the media. Learn to think for yourself and know when you have a strong hand to play.

In other words we are a mansion on the hill with a great many bedrooms with ensuite bathrooms for everyone to have their own, multiple living areas, and entertainment rooms, including a theatre room, Jacuzzi and large swimming pool at the back with massive BBQ area and a tennis/basketball court. As for the over the top modern kitchen, well the players never have to enter it because the live in 24 hours chefs never stop making meals. Oh and I nearly forgot, cleanup is a non issue due to the live in maids and laundry personnel that take care of your every need.

That is the type of shiny bauble we are at the moment and our management should be making sure the players and their managers know it too. If they're not they're not doing their job properly.

of course that is how it will play out. Why wouId any player who has decent outside interest from “solid” clubs not consider leaving if they don’t know who the coach is.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,138
Yeah thanks mate. I get it. We have been at it for a while now. When do you think we will shed the mediocrity?
It's not about shedding anything, it is about being able to bring in the best people to the organisation - the same people that are in demand at other clubs. There's nothing holding us back that needs to be scapegoated, but rather something missing that we need to get the better staff. Maybe we just need to spend more, which means we need more funding. We are quite stable and attractive to sponsors these days so the PLC's lost income should be offset somewhat by increased sponsorship revenue. But clubs with private owners will be thriving these days, because rich merkins have all increased their wealth during the pandemic. Clubs owned by entertainment venues, not so much.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,810
Demand? It’s about knowing who your “future boss” is….the direction of teams playing style….etc etc

You really reckon players don’t care about who the coach is?

additionally why wouId we even want to re-sign any of our players without the input of the new coach if BA is moved on….gee how professional is that. Not giving the new coach the option of putting his own squad together.

direction for 2023 needs to be determined ASAP….
I didn’t say it was an unreasonable demand but who the coach is is something outside the players purview so yes it’s a demand.

Of course the players care who the coach is. They just may not care that much whether it’s BA or Flanagan or Carr or Skeletor as much as they care it’s not some in particular. Especially not enough to uproot their own lives or take less money or move into even more uncertainty of changing clubs.

Do you reckon coaches would prefer to have the old war chest available to sign whatever players they can convince to join a completely new 30 man squad, or the majority of a squad that finished in top 8 past 3 years with a healthy mix of established stars and youngsters? Sure there will possibly be a couple of players he values less than the former coach and some of those contracts will coincide with the coach change. But the incoming coach is still going to try and get the best out of that player, he just may be overpaying for it somewhat.

Direction for 2023 is needed ASAP but not at the expense of mortgaging our future with another Hagan. The tipping point is when as I first said is when we’re hamstringing ourselves by not having a consistent core squad
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,319
If we're an elite club doesn't that mean Maguire should be able to win a premiership here?

Yes, but why settle for a bloke that you know has limitations and has a short fuse and used be date. He has been in the NRL way to long now for players to not know his short cummings. As you know, players talk. I don't think he gets too many players singing his praises behind closed doors. Do you?

I for one don't want to hire a coach that may ruffle a few feathers or put some players noses out of joint if I can avoid it. Why start looking for a new coach after only 2 or 3 years again if there are better options or better unknown options like Ciraldo? At least he comes in with high praise and optimism, unlike Maguire who comes in with a massive ? over his demeanor and abilities. Yes he won a premiership, but that doesn't necessarily mean he can repeat the process.

He is hardly a super coach after all. I think the best we could say about the guy is that he is a solid disciplinarian that got the job done once when all the stars aligned for him and his team. But they also had Sam Burgess, who besides being the best forward in the world at the time is said to be of high quality coaching ability too. So that tells us that maybe Mag had some considerable help at the time by having a great player and coach in waiting on the field at the time when they went on to glory.

At present we have no GOATs in our team, so Mag would not have that on his side if he were to be our coach and as for recruiting one, oh please, he can't recruit a boy scout let alone a GOAT at the moment. He is on the nose and whether it is justified or not, everyone knows it. So why would you bring him here and take the risk that all the rumours are true?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
68,138
Hell the competition shouldn't be all that hard to get better people in since so many of our NRL clubs have and do neglect this side of the game as we all know and just try and buy their way out of trouble.
This truism has been wrong for well over a decade. The four NRL clubs left in the finals all spend plenty on junior 'development' (poaching), ever since the likes of Brian Smith showed them the way over 20 years ago.

Flegg/NYC titles in last decade (nearly all of the players in this age group are legally adults, so a more reliable financial investment for NRL clubs):

ClubTitles since 2012
Penrith2
Cronulla1
Easts1
Manly1
New Zealand1
Souths1
Wests1
Parramatta0

SG Ball titles (you start to see the diminishing importance of younger rep teams):

ClubTitles since 2012
Penrith2
Wests2
Canberra1
Cronulla1
Easts1
Illawarra1
Parramatta1

And finally Harold Matts, where they are all children with NRL dreams and parents only just starting to shop them to SG Ball/Flegg recruiters for a pay day on turning 18. This means most clubs are reluctant to commit much money for 'development'. Only Manly are spending money on fishing outside their waters, the rest don't give a shit. If Penrith and Campbelltown were closer to Manly a lot of their juniors would probably be getting on the Sea Eagles Harold Matts bus every Tuesday and Thursday afternoon as well:

ClubTitles since 2012
Newcastle3
Parramatta3
Manly2
Cronulla1

We are one of the strongest junior nurseries in the league that I am sure if we resourced it right and asked some of the better operators to be part of, they would jump at the chance.
The only thing we have in common with the 'junior nursery' is geography. We don't own any of the players. Plus there are clearly diminishing returns in recruiting too young or the likes of Penrith, Souths and Easts would have won a Harold Matts title in the past ten years.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
125,573
coming to think of it, Parra is not desperate at the moment... so they wouldn't be hiring a crappy coach.
But but but that’s all we can afford apparently………. We just don’t have the money to match with the top clubs. Just need to face facts. BA forever!!!
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,319
Demand? It’s about knowing who your “future boss” is….the direction of teams playing style….etc etc

You really reckon players don’t care about who the coach is?

additionally why wouId we even want to re-sign any of our players without the input of the new coach if BA is moved on….gee how professional is that. Not giving the new coach the option of putting his own squad together.

direction for 2023 needs to be determined ASAP….

Do you really think the players don't know the quality of our management by now or have enough confidence in them to sound out and hire the right man for the job? How on earth did we get to be as good a roster as we are? Witchcraft?
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,319
He also has win a premiership with the Eels as a goal

And who's to say his mate doesn't want to come home and play with his best mate?

It is still so unbelievable how we weren't in the mix for this kid when Souths were giving him up. Surely we could of moved someone on to fit him in if we had to. As we all know the Roosters were the last team on earth that they wanted the kid to go to.

Oh well, again another massive missed opportunity. Imagine if we had both these kids in our backline? There's your X factor.
 

emjaycee

Coach
Messages
10,403
Now you are just guessing.
Of course I was just guessing mate. I was responding to your post that said:
I'm sure if we were to eventually replace BA it would be with someone the players would be happy with. If we were to go with a junior coach, Ciraldo would be at the top of the list at this point. If an experienced coach, Flanno is my pick of who is available right now.
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
14,076
Mahoney and Moses’ form as well as the addition of Papali’i make this side way better than 2020.
And the drop off by Sivo, N Brown, D Brown (in attack, defence always good) and Lane plus Opacic for most of the year instead of Mennings makes the side about the same.

Also Gutho was better last year than this year (Dally M fullback of the year 2020)
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,319
It's not about shedding anything, it is about being able to bring in the best people to the organisation - the same people that are in demand at other clubs. There's nothing holding us back that needs to be scapegoated, but rather something missing that we need to get the better staff. Maybe we just need to spend more, which means we need more funding. We are quite stable and attractive to sponsors these days so the PLC's lost income should be offset somewhat by increased sponsorship revenue. But clubs with private owners will be thriving these days, because rich merkins have all increased their wealth during the pandemic. Clubs owned by entertainment venues, not so much.

No you are wrong. By what has been mentioned on these forums before about the people in charge of our junior leagues, he/they suck and need to be pissed off. You can call it what you like, but hiring better people is shedding lesser ones. You are playing semantics. Either we need better people to go further and be better or we don't. When there are champion kids that stand out like dogs balls playing in our catchment area and we can't see them as is the case with the 2 best ones playing at Manly right now, then the people that are in charge now are not good enough at their job and need to be shed/let go and better eyes and brains need to replace them.

If the scapegoat fits, then roast it merkin. Then we all get to eat and gauge ourselves and be merry.
 

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